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  1. #161
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    If everyone were “playing it in the way they find enjoyable”, then we would not have all the threads like this.
    Except this thread is not about "playing it in the way they find enjoyable", but about "trying to convince others that their preferred play style is superior".
    Last edited by Ryiah; 07-17-2013 at 11:09 PM.
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  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    This is what is important about the whole topic. If everyone were “playing it in the way they find enjoyable”, then we would not have all the threads like this.

    BUT, every few days we see a new thread bringing up matters that all come back to this very topic. Using your term, why do the “dumb ones” come here and pi$$ and moan all the time because the dirty zergers are mean? If it is not about xp/minute, or being the best DPS, why all the uproar? You have fun in your way and I will do the same. When people come here complaining, all I think is sour grapes as well as jealousy. (not you personally)
    Strangely, I rarely see threads from the "dumb ones" probably because most of us think talking about a video game on a forum is a waste of time (myself excluded, as I'm probably more addicted to this game's forums than I am the game itself). But I do see threads like this one where someone has to come and tell his PTSD support group about the horror of putting up with a barb that wasn't up to his standards, left the toilet seat up, or something equally heinous. In fairness I don't see the "dirty zerger" threads as much different.

  3. #163
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Except this thread is not about "playing it in the way they find enjoyable", but about "trying to convince others that their preferred play style is superior".
    I do not see that in this thread. The OP was looking for answers as to when to say enough is enough. Even if we do lump this into an” elitist thread” there are far more threads that will be bashing BB or the terrible zergers.
    Get rid of scaling, get rid of BB, get rid of ship buffs, get rid of this and that. If it is that bad for people, do not use these “op” things. But no. We will be back here again in a week debating getting rid of this and that because some innocent pugger cannot find enjoyment unless everyone is as miserable as they are.
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  4. #164
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Strangely, I rarely see threads from the "dumb ones" probably because most of us think talking about a video game on a forum is a waste of time (myself excluded, as I'm probably more addicted to this game's forums than I am the game itself).
    Likewise I've seen a number of people who, while they generally know the forums exist, don't understand how to properly use them. Something as simple as a search may seem common on the Internet but most people don't know how to make good use of search engines such as Google. This is further complicated by Turbine's "upgrade" which broke a lot of the past links to posts.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 07-17-2013 at 11:32 PM.
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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I do not see that in this thread. The OP was looking for answers as to when to say enough is enough. Even if we do lump this into an” elitist thread” there are far more threads that will be bashing BB or the terrible zergers.
    Get rid of scaling, get rid of BB, get rid of ship buffs, get rid of this and that. If it is that bad for people, do not use these “op” things. But no. We will be back here again in a week debating getting rid of this and that because some innocent pugger cannot find enjoyment unless everyone is as miserable as they are.
    Exactly. And if you decide to dumb yourself down, may it be for enjoyement, flavor build, personnal achievement, playing bad/drunk or whatever the reason... well know that there are not only an Elite difficulty.

    Even single player games are like that... it's nothing new.

    Edit: Pretty much ALL of those threads are about good players making the right sacrifices (choices?) to be able to crush the game at it's higher level while some folks get in there not prepared.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 07-17-2013 at 11:39 PM.
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  6. #166
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Following that logic there are 8 races, only 3 that are smart to play, 11 destinies, only maybe 4 or 5 that are smart to play, 13 classes, only maybe 5 that are smart to play pure.
    Pretty much. Blame Turbine for making end-game as dumb as they did and making things so some options are so much insanely better than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    So with so much that of it that is dumb to play, why are we playing this game again? Or is the game just some sort of test designed to separate the smart players who recognize and play the right options from the dumb ones who think it's about playing it in the way they find enjoyable?
    Hey, some people enjoy eaiting paint-chips. I don't judge.

    But a smart player see what works and what doesn't. Is being terrible fun? Not to anyone smart.

  7. #167
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    well know that there are not only an Elite difficulty.
    Any time I've tried to explain this concept it has almost always ended up with someone calling me elitist. Thus instead of trying to convince others that there are more difficulties than Elite, I've chosen simply not to run with them. So now I almost entirely avoid pugs.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 07-17-2013 at 11:48 PM.
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  8. #168
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    . . . all I think is sour grapes as well as jealousy. (not you personally)
    It is nothing more than that.

  9. #169
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Any time I've tried to explain this concept it has almost always ended up with someone calling me elitist. I've pretty much given up on trying to convince others that those difficulties exist for a reason. So now my choice is to simply not run with pugs. I have never been happier.
    See . . . most of the pugs I run with are fine. Took 3 people with us through Necro 3 tonight. I very pleasant married couple and this stoner kid who were good company. We beat all the quests no problem and had a good time running with people we've never run with before. Sure they weren't as powerful as we were and didn't contribute as much, but they still contributed and fun was had by all.

    The guy I mentioned in the OP . . . I'd call him a knuckle-dragging chimp but Jane Goodall's ghost would haunt me.

    I think it's worth it most of the time, but every once in a while you come across a special kind of stupid player.

  10. #170
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I think it's worth it most of the time, but every once in a while you come across a special kind of stupid player.
    I frequently run in a static group of two members - myself and another completionist. Occasionally one of our guildies somehow convinces us to give pugging a go. One quest is usually enough to convince us to stop again.
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  11. #171
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    When I run into a newer player, I refer them to the Thelanis mentor program. Then I link relevant ddo wiki pages and forum threads. I keep a database of threads that cover useful topics like BYOH, builds, gearing, and completion tactics for certain difficult quests. I will then personally accompany the player through the dungeon or raid, making sure to cover them with heal scrolls/rejuvenation cocoons as needed, giving background information and tips throughout the quest. After the quest is completed, I ask to see if there is confusion regarding any of the information that has been passed on. I will also, in the case of a non-raid, see if the player wishes to run the quest again as a duo.

    Totally kidding. I solo.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Likewise I've seen a number of people who, while they generally know the forums exist, don't understand how to properly use them. Something as simple as a search may seem common on the Internet but most people don't know how to make good use of search engines such as Google. This is further complicated by Turbine's "upgrade" which broke a lot of the past links to posts.
    Most I know don't even care that they exist. The most either hate forums in general or believe games are for playing, not talking about. Which is where many of the "casual" players I've played with sit on the whole issue of researching anything. But hey, they aren't here complaining about it in that case.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I do not see that in this thread. The OP was looking for answers as to when to say enough is enough. Even if we do lump this into an” elitist thread” there are far more threads that will be bashing BB or the terrible zergers.
    Get rid of scaling, get rid of BB, get rid of ship buffs, get rid of this and that. If it is that bad for people, do not use these “op” things. But no. We will be back here again in a week debating getting rid of this and that because some innocent pugger cannot find enjoyment unless everyone is as miserable as they are.
    It seems to me most of those threads involve people's theories about why there are few LFMs than straight up complaints about the systems themselves.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Hey, some people enjoy eaiting paint-chips. I don't judge.

    But a smart player see what works and what doesn't. Is being terrible fun? Not to anyone smart.
    I suppose if you consider trying to bore oneself to tears as the smart option. Is stepping on ants fun?

  15. #175
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    It dont matter if u a TR or not, doing Elite quests in trap infested dungeon will kill toons that don,t have evasion\imp evasion, especially groups that dont have trapper and just zerg thru, no matter how high you can heal, them damn traps still going to get you if its not disabled.

  16. #176
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    I draw the line at being annoyed down to smashing my PC screen. I can be annoyed by many things but mostly it is lack of communication and the capability of adaptation to what is needed as well as the general 'one-trial-or-leave' mentality which does not give any evaluation.

    But then this exact evaluation is claimed in endgame.
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  17. #177
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I do not see that in this thread. The OP was looking for answers as to when to say enough is enough. Even if we do lump this into an” elitist thread” there are far more threads that will be bashing BB or the terrible zergers.
    Get rid of scaling, get rid of BB, get rid of ship buffs, get rid of this and that. If it is that bad for people, do not use these “op” things. But no. We will be back here again in a week debating getting rid of this and that because some innocent pugger cannot find enjoyment unless everyone is as miserable as they are.
    The defense of what is OP is even more ridiculous, and is a direct contradiction to the "enough is enough" attitude. Players are using "the newbies" as a scapegoat, stating that the newbies will all just up and leave if 30 point resists are removed or made to scale. One thing to note on that, its not the new players that have the entitlement attitude but the vets. People are telling us that newbies who didn't even know ship buffs existed at a more powerful level are just going to up and leave? I don't think so. The reality of the situation is ship buffs sadly became the norm, which erased the learning curve in quests up to level 11 with a few exceptions.

    Its even more hilarious when the same person posing a thread about how a TR should just know how to play also does not support any learning curve whatsoever in the low level. How is that TR going to learn to play exactly? Here we see an EXPECTATION of that person knowing how to play, along with the direct contradiction of not wanting to support having an environment where learning quality play is conducive. As long as there are mechanics in the game that can be used to trivialize large chunks of the learning curve, we better get used to and stay used to players of the caliber the OP is describing showing up to LFMs, without a clue.

  18. #178
    The Hatchery Paleus's Avatar
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    I draw the line on rudeness, deception, not responding to any conversation, or other personality traits that make it a chore to game with someone, no matter how down-right awesome their play skill is or isn't. If a person up and dies on me in a quest, its not a big concern as I long ago stopped caring about maximizing xp.

    On a similar topic, I see a lot of people in the thread want to blame xp pots, vet status, and xp stones for bad play skill of people. Assuming the bad players are just ones that started yesterday and somehow knew enough about the intricacies of the xp system/otto's box/ddo store, etc to level up in a heartbeat. Is this based on actually talking with these people and finding out they started only the game only a few days ago?

    Because, that seems unlikely to me, assuming a significant number of people have both the money and insight into one aspect of the game, but not any other. This assumes their playstyle isn't a learned behavior, but the absence of knowledge. What seems more likely to me is that these are people that have been playing for a while, but both the game culture and mechanics have changed to create this situation irrespective of the ddo store bonanza on leveling. All this byoh ip, channel only, every man for himself, don't talk to me I'm leveling seems like it reduces the likelihood that new players are able to gain exposure to play-styles and knowledge so that it can be transmitted from one group to the next on a consistent basis.
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  19. #179
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Is stepping on ants fun?
    Yes. Especially since if I stub my toes I don't have to yell "Hjeal meh!" and hope somebody else can fix it.

  20. #180
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    A surefire way to get booted from my groups is thus:

    1) Someone joins and asks what quest we are running. What, you weren't able to READ the description of the LFM you CLICKED on? That really makes me doubt your intelligence/ability to follow directions.

    2) People who join a group and immediately demand "share." Yeah, hello to you too.

    3) Whenever someone zergs ahead of the rest of the group in a quest, gets high alert, and then dies. Don't get me wrong-- I like to zerg quests, I generally finish a TR in around a week with no box. But, when we zerg elite quests I like to stick together so that mobs do not overwhelm. I also like to get as many bonuses as I can the first run, so bypassing mobs isn't conducive to that.

    Basically, it all comes down to attitude and willingness to follow directions moreso than gear or build.

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