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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Chai I think you've been playing a little too long and have forgotten what it's like to be new. Yes things are easier now however there is still a lot a new player needs to learn before the game is easy and "autocomplete" for them. Things are easy and autocomplete for vets but I really don't think there are many new players that would find elites to be that way.
    What is easy and auto complete for a vet is generally also easy and auto-complete for every new player in their group though. At least until they run into one who expects them to function at the same level as the rest of the group.

  2. #222
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wongar View Post

    Lastly – I still don't know what BB is and nobody I've asked has bothered to respond when I ask about their group post, can't find it in the wiki or forums (most likely there – just too generic of a term) so I'd love it is someone could help out a noob and tell me. Otherwise I'll just continue to treat it as a red flag and avoid any group with BB in the message.
    BB = Bravery Bonus

    It's a bonus xp for doing the first run of a quest on elite at level. (note some will say over level) What this means is that a quest is listed in your adventure compendium (press p to access) at level 14. That is it's difficulty on normal, hard adds 1 level to this and elite adds an additional level so that that level 14 is now a 16, this becomes the max level for a player to run that quest and get the BB. Hope that helps

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Bravery_bonus
    for more info

  3. #223
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wongar View Post
    A few thoughts form somebody who has only played the game for a month or so...
    (Also somebody who is always looking for a group rather than looking for members)

    Let me qualify and say this is my first experience with an online game, and I'm a bit of an old timer who hadn'd played DnD since before there needed to be a DDO / PnP distinction. I see BB and think dial-up bulletin-board so I'm not likely the standard new player population. However, I think my experiences and viewpoint are likely common of new players.

    It is apparent that most of the existing players don't comprehend or remember the steep learning curve that this game can be. Just how is it that a new player is to learn the game and jump in with the level of understanding that everyone seems to expect? Point is – you can't expect new players to understand everything you put in a looking for group message if you use cryptic (at least the first time you see them) messages. Heck, I thought BYOH stood for bring your own healer – drawing from the analogy BYOB used to stand for bring your own booze -– not be able to brew your own booze at a party by yourself, sit in the corner, do only what I want you to do without me telling you what it is, don't ask anything from me, don't expect any help, don't slow me down, and don't bother me in any way. First group I tried to join (at level 7) kicked me out as soon as I called my heal hire – to meet the requirement of BYOH. Gave me such a great experience I didn't try a group again until Ginthold. Told the group leader I was new and did not know the area before clicking join (was posted just for the slayer/rare/explorer). Joined and was immediately called a piker because I could not find my way to the group. (Anyone on these forums remember what it was like to try and find your way around Ginthold for the first time by yourself without a map?) Everyone in the group left within a few minutes after I joined saying they would not play with a piker except for one person. That person actually took the time to tell me what a piker was, find me, show me a round, and give me a few pointers. Had that one person not shown a little kindness, I would likely have concluded that game was full of elitist, my way or the highway players and either continued to play solo or given up on the game entirely.

    This thread has a lot of talk about TR players expected to know everything – it is my experience that any first life toon over about 7 or 8 is expected to know everything. I started a new character just so I could join lower level groups where there seems to be a bit more tolerance to new players and have continued to have mixed interactions. I always tell group leaders before joining that I am new – over half either tell me to find another group or don't bother to respond at all. I appreciate being told no – kinda rude to not even bother responding. The groups I have joined, I have usually enjoyed and usually end up running several quests. Simple suggestion for the person creating the message, be a bit clearer in the message about what you want – example does “know quest” mean that you know the quest or are only interested in people that “know the quest”. I have really come to appreciate the people who post with “all welcome.”

    Now on to the reason for my rambling – If you enjoy the game and want it to continue, as a community you need to do a better job of supporting and encouraging new players. Bragging about mow much better you are than everyone else won't mean much when the game gets shut down for lack or revenue generation. As was already mentioned, there seem to be far fewer players now. Simple economics say that if the trend continues, it is only a matter of time. One simple act of kindness and a little help from a single person got me hooked on the game. Take out that one act and I'm gone like so many other people seem to be.

    For all you “need to be self sufficient” players – the wiki generally points people to playing a pure barb or fighter first – with no mention of how to self heal. I've learned a few things but I still would have no idea how to be a first time player and create a pure self healing barb (without resorting to a half elf which the wiki points out as bad for a barb...) so please point me in the right direction, I like to learn.

    Lastly – I still don't know what BB is and nobody I've asked has bothered to respond when I ask about their group post, can't find it in the wiki or forums (most likely there – just too generic of a term) so I'd love it is someone could help out a noob and tell me. Otherwise I'll just continue to treat it as a red flag and avoid any group with BB in the message.
    thank you for sharing your experiences as a new player and what it really is like. if only more new players like you would speak up so some people could have a better understanding or at least jog their memory of what it was like to be new. you made a lot of good points and your experiences are pretty on target with never ending debates of new players and what affect they have.

    wiki build advice is about as good as following the path at character creation screen. its someones opinion on how a build should be played and last i looked at it, it seemed outdated information. wiki is pretty much good for about everything else though.

    BB can mean blade barrier or it can mean bravery bonus depending on how it is used in a sentence. theres a lot of abbreviations for things and we like to use them.

    welcome to DDO and hopefully you can find other like minded players willing to learn the game together. we aren't all bad

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wongar View Post
    ... Too long to quote ...
    What I would like to know is, as a new player knowing you still had alot to learn, did you join the "Elite LFM" still knowing it was possibly too hard for you at the moment and that your contribution would most likely be -10% xp to the group?

    Because even though this thread has derailed alot, the real problem is, I think, the mixing of good/bad old/new players in the same environnement.

    We all had to learn at some point but there are new players that are good and there are old players that are bad because the gaming industry has not been created in 2013. Experience doesn't only come from playing this one game. Sure the knowledge of that one game does, but everything else when it comes to you playing your char doesn't.

    This is why... and I will repeat myself again even if it's in vain, people should be able to filter themselves by being able to know where they belong in term of difficulty. In the MMOs world, there are people who plays like if it was their job because of the addictive/competitive (this is made up but still real once so many people believe it) nature of these games. I've been there before when it comes to being addicted. To them, it's like if you'd be mixing pro hockey (chose your sport) players with juniors or worse.

    See it doesn't make sense to mix people with such a different approach/skills/intentions/etc. Yet in DDO, the system makes it so these types of people can be mixed up easely without no way to know what they are worth.

    Now it's not that I personnaly care about the mixing up, but the respect part around it hurts me because, still repeating, my own belief wouldn't let me screw others fun by being a burden to them. Hell, I wouldn't even want to be in a situation where i'd be a burden because I don't find it fun at all.

    Also, the players who take the game too lightly won't understand why someone will shout to them because they didn't come out or release once they were dead 10secs after completion of a farm. They just don't see it the same way at all.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 07-18-2013 at 06:28 PM.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    What I would like to know is, as a new player knowing you still had alot to learn, did you join the "Elite LFM" still knowing it was possibly too hard for you at the moment and that your contribution would most likely be -10% xp to the group?
    .
    Yes – my first response was to an “Elite LFM” thought I didn't know it at the time because I had not yet figured out the grouping interface to know the quest level. Heck I thought I was doing good to figure out how to even join a group and was more concerned I was right about how it worked so I didn't make a fool of my self by not being able to even enter.

    Would I have ask to join knowing it was Eliete at the time? Yes. Consider that I had run most of the content solo on Elite up to level 7 with little difficulty, no guild buffs, and basic/**** gear from chests (didn't even know ship buffs existed at the time and had not used the AH). Assuming I even understood the “ -10% xp to the group” at the time why would I think I would cause it? I had no reference to think I would die in the quest and had no clue about scaling yet. As a new player – my view was a group should be easier than solo so I should be fine.

    The more generic answer – would I join a quest where I know I would be a problem? NO. I would have no fun and the party would have no fun – and I'm here to have fun while not negatively impacting others. My point is how do I know if I'm going to be a problem? Is it expected that I either solo every quest before grouping? Or research it on wiki to decide if I'm up for it? I really think this is an unrealistic expectation.

    As for the mix of old/new good/bad – you are right – it is a challenge. I personally like it, I understand some hate it. It is interesting to consider that I might be being following a snot-nosed kid around taking advice from them and learning. Likewise, once I figured out that once you found all explores in the Sands it showed you the map – I was so happy I took a new player I had met in a group through it just to show them this “new cool thing” You have to remember that as a new player – things that you know well are often surprises.

    If you are an experienced player and don't like helping new players – that is fine, everyone should play in a way that works for them – but don't expect the new players to know that without telling them. I will not respond to a message that states “experience players only” or anything similar – I don't want to be where I'm not wanted. On the other hand, if you like helping people, and post “all Welcome” I will likely respond at first chance.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wongar View Post
    If you are an experienced player and don't like helping new players – that is fine, everyone should play in a way that works for them – but don't expect the new players to know that without telling them. I will not respond to a message that states “experience players only” or anything similar – I don't want to be where I'm not wanted. On the other hand, if you like helping people, and post “all Welcome” I will likely respond at first chance.
    You said you soloed several quests on elite by yourself with crappy gear which is possibly a good indication that you're a new player but not a bad player. I'm pretty sure you found that out by yourself, maybe even with a little help of comparing with others.

    That's kind of what I meant when people should filter themselves.

    Often, when I post elite LFM, there is someone that will die every single run... several times if we rez him. This should be an indication to him that he might not be at his place. The 10% exp is really no biggy, it's barely a couple hundreds... but it's still annoying when it happens everytime. Sometimes, it's simply worth a good laugh because you don't see bad intentions but at other times, you do. For exemple, someone that dies as much as he goes afk without telling or zerg which ends up as dropping the overall group effectiveness and wastes time. Time, to some, is the most precious thing and you don't wanna mess with that. Even if it's "hobby time".

    Clearly, you are a "newb" and not a "noob" which is a good thing because you'll be learning and keep getting better instead of just stalling. On top of that, you have a good attitude. Now... if you think that every new players are like you, well you will be surprised by even some vets playing since 2006 or so.

    Keep rocking, have a good one.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

  7. #227
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wongar View Post
    It is apparent that most of the existing players don't comprehend or remember the steep learning curve that this game can be.
    No, it's that we don't care.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    What is easy and auto complete for a vet is generally also easy and auto-complete for every new player in their group though. At least until they run into one who expects them to function at the same level as the rest of the group.
    I don't believe that a significant percentage of new players ever group with "vets". Vets tend to group with each other.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wongar View Post
    A few thoughts form somebody who has only played the game for a month or so...
    (Also somebody who is always looking for a group rather than looking for members)

    Let me qualify and say this is my first experience with an online game, and I'm a bit of an old timer who hadn'd played DnD since before there needed to be a DDO / PnP distinction. I see BB and think dial-up bulletin-board so I'm not likely the standard new player population. However, I think my experiences and viewpoint are likely common of new players.
    Thank you for deciding to speak up. When people read the forums I'm sure they see that everyone is very opinionated and not very patient. This also occurs in-game. The internet creates a barrier that hides a person's true identity so they feel safe in being more rude than in Real Life.

    Everyone in the group left within a few minutes after I joined saying they would not play with a piker except for one person. That person actually took the time to tell me what a piker was, find me, show me a round, and give me a few pointers. Had that one person not shown a little kindness, I would likely have concluded that game was full of elitist, my way or the highway players and either continued to play solo or given up on the game entirely.
    I'm glad someone took the time to help you out. You are definitely correct that this game needs new players. Unfortunately most people group with those they already know so they can avoid "hassles". But there are some people in DDO who will take in / help new players - I just hope there are enough.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    I don't believe that a significant percentage of new players ever group with "vets". Vets tend to group with each other.
    I think you overestimate the degree of vetness it takes to complete quests on elite if you are willing to settle for something less than high speed and perfection. Even a noob like me can complete most heroic quests on elite, under level, after having run them a dozen or so times on my various terrible builds. Which is the real learning curve of the game, knowing every quest, every trap and every mob on a first name basis.

  11. #231
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Whenever i read a thread like this, my first thought is always along these lines:

    If you are a vet player, and really don't like risking someone not being up to your standards, why are you making lfm's?

    If you're a vet player, haven't you made any friends? If not, what does that tell you?

    When i make an lfm, i am specifically hoping to get newer players to join them. I don't need or want vets to join. I have enough friends and guildmates that if i actually need help with something i can usually get it. On those rare occasions when none of them are online, there are plenty of things i can do solo.

    I saw it posted by someone else, either here or in another thread, that the lfm system is basically for new players. How you can post one and expect not to get new players is beyond me. Seriously, if you can't tolerate them, don't post lfm's.

  12. #232
    Community Member Meetch1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    What I would like to know is, as a new player knowing you still had alot to learn, did you join the "Elite LFM" still knowing it was possibly too hard for you at the moment and that your contribution would most likely be -10% xp to the group?
    I must nit pick here. That "-10%" never works out to 10% less total XP for the quest - it's actually 10% of the base XP - that very first number at the top of the XP report. Forgetting to wear your Voice (or Mantle) will cost you more xp than a death in the quest. Example with numbers for an elite BB quest without the maximum bonuses and assuming that reentry, xp pots, and bonus weekends and whatever skips my mind are left off the table and the names / figures may be a bit wrong, but not unrealistic values. The more you "milk" all the first time XP the less difference that death makes:

    Base XP: 10000
    Elite first time: +80%
    BB (full streak): +70%
    Vandal bonus: +10%
    Onslaught: +15%
    Traps: +10% (Ingenious? Bah - you're lucky the trapper did any of em at all).
    No deaths: +10%

    10k + (add all the above together) 195% = 10000 + 19500 = 29500 xp with all the good bonuses. 200% isn't too hard to hit on most elite-once-and-done quests.
    If someone dies:
    10k + 185% = 28500xp.

    That's 1000xp less than 29500, or approximately 3% to 3.5%. From what I've seen the voice adds 5% to the TOTAL number, so if you plan to squelch the guy who dies, firstly remember to squelch yourself when you forget your voice.

    I don't care if you die while running with me - only if that somehow causes the group to fail, and then not all that much if it's not intentional. I draw the line at griefing, or being completely incompetent AND unwilling to accept advice or help. It's a game and most of us are flexible enough. Don't try to spoil my fun and I'll try not to spoil yours, 'm'kay?
    Goe ahed... korekt mah spelin'.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meetch1972 View Post
    I must nit pick here. That "-10%" never works out to 10% less total XP for the quest - it's actually 10% of the base XP - that very first number at the top of the XP report. Forgetting to wear your Voice (or Mantle) will cost you more xp than a death in the quest. Example with numbers for an elite BB quest without the maximum bonuses and assuming that reentry, xp pots, and bonus weekends and whatever skips my mind are left off the table and the names / figures may be a bit wrong, but not unrealistic values. The more you "milk" all the first time XP the less difference that death makes:
    Thanks for the lesson... I wish I knew that before. Wait, I did.
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    ...And then there was silence

  14. #234
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Not that I particularly disagree with the sentiment. But it seems unrealistic to ask not to be nerfed if that's what they feel will help keep the other "95%" of their customers happy.
    I may have misspoke when I said nerf ME, exactly. I just wonder if it would be in Turbine’s best interest to follow the path that so many here seem to want.

    At the moment we still have people playing other games, doing real life summer things, or whatever until the new expansion comes back. When these players do come back for the expansion, how do you think most would react when they see: ship buffs gone, no more BB, have lost all ED’s if they tr, or any other crazy idea that people post on the boards.

    I am all for adding new players, but I do not think it is wise to alienate everyone that is on break right now. If they come back and see some of these poppycock ideas, they will go right back to whatever they were doing.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  15. #235
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post

    I disagree that the environment is too easy for beginning players. I defy your assumptions that they ALWAYs join a guild, nevermind with a large guild ship. As someone else mentioned, I don't think you remember what its like to be new. I have a brand new player in my group right now. Despite having played other MMOs, running with a bunch of seasoned players and having access to a guild ship he used to die all the time. He does not find it easy. And he is learning every day despite having these advantages.
    You should read my posts again then, because you will clearly see I am the one who is saying newbies WILL NOT usually join a guild right off the bat. In fact I also said they WILL NOT even know about guild buffs - which refutes any argument that the newbies would all just up and leave if guild resists were even removed, because that argument hinges on assuming that newbies will have access to this stuff on day one (you know that assumption youre defying).

    As for your statement that the environment isn't too easy - you've got to be kidding me. 30 point resists trivializes the lower level game.

    I do remember what its like to be new gear wise and buff wise because ive started over from scratch on 3 different servers now in different eras. I also have been playing PD for 5 years in DDO, where we do not allow ship buffs, as well as raid in a guild on another server, so I have a very good comparison regarding how people learn with and without access to many of the things that make the game trivial.

    So as far as you saying I don't remember what its like to be new - not only do I remember, but I also get to observe brand new people join us, as well as the TR/raid scene folks joining up for a change in pace, and get killed a few times in low level stuff, due to not being used to being over geared/over buffed. All aspects of the game they were able to take for granted are now something they have to be wary of. Running through the content over buffed is no longer an option, they must use strategy.
    Last edited by Chai; 07-19-2013 at 07:29 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  16. #236
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post

    I am all for adding new players, but I do not think it is wise to alienate everyone that is on break right now. If they come back and see some of these poppycock ideas, they will go right back to whatever they were doing.
    This is already going to happen, at no fault to any of the players.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Here's the one-problem I have with self-healing / self-sufficient toon (PMs excluded) : dedicated healers.

    Yeah, they are rare these days. However, saying that the healer doesn't have to worry about you, and putting this into practice in a group are two separate things (especially PUGs). Lets say I self-heal for a good half of my depleted red, and in process of refilling my tank, the heal-speced toon drops a mass heal that would have done most of that without me having to do anything.

    So, in essence, I just wasted a bunch of my blue bar for nothing. Those were spell points that could have went to an extra Zeal in a fight (if you are a pally), or some other function.

    Or the reverse could be said: that toon just wasted SP on me that would have been better suited for really hard-hit players.

    I know of very few PUGs in general where they communicate well enough to coordinate the optimal amount of heals, and so on. I usually inform people that I am a PM. I can't tell you how many times someone has dropped a heal on me not realizing I was in form - mainly because Lich Form sorta looks a little like Blur.
    Well think about this if they are healing you and you didnt ask for it you don't have to heal yourself. You can still cast that zeal or whatever you need. For me i never think this. I tell people when they heal me that i can self heal. Sure some people listen and stop healing me unless i was near for a mass cure of some sort. Do i complain if it heals me twice or whatever nope. We were running through Mired in Kobold one day and i was using heal scrolls on myself. i still had others overheal me as i used mine or whatever.

    Not one time did i get ****ed off saying hey i used my scroll. how dare you be nice and throw me a cure my way. i thought that was awesome they were looking at me when i NEVER asked. it was a great team player skill. So yes it might suck hey i could of done something else but unless someone is voicing what they're doing we will never know if our cures would be wasted ourselves. i say thank you and keep moving on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Be a toon who can do damage and not need a baby-sitter and you'll be welcome on any team, that's a team player. A toon who needs a life-support system is a drain on all he plays with.
    i agree with this statement. I will even take a full damage barb who cure pots himself over one who does nothing. Reason is at least hes trying and he/she didnt want to wait for a nanny either. sometimes you gotta go with the groups you see and adapt. this one did. So what do i do i throw them a bone curing them or a heal scroll etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    And someone casting Mass heal after a tough fight when people are self-healing?

    It happens to me...a lot. I'm halfway to topped off, and then the healer says "group up for a mass heal!" They couldn't have said that a minute ago when was the furiously clicking CSW? or how about when you, out of paranoia because your red bar is down past the halfway point, drop a LoH in the middle of a boss fight, and then the mass heal pops-up. So now I've just lost some of my back-up healing.

    There are literally dozens of scenarios I could cite.
    ok here is an answer for you on this part. If you know a healer is saying that and will cast it why not hit yourself enough to stay alive then group up? you can't blame them at all for throwing masses out. just think each adventure or battle is different because sometimes you need to self heal or sometimes you don't when someone heals you. problem is you never know which one is going to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    even the most self sufficient groups go south sometimes. a barb cant throw a heal, unless they actually built umd into them in which case whats the point of playing a barb than, but they can grab the agro if others are in trouble, they can dismiss rage and use a GH clicky to help up in cap toons and they can run stones back to a shrine. its a trade off just like every other class has to do. the thing about those FOTM builds is that they try to have it all rolled up into 1 bundle. they usually are very good in 1 thing, but are average or above average in everything else.

    a well played barb, or any class/build for that matter, is aware of his surroundings. if theres trouble, quick thinking and action needs to be made before things go too far south. sometimes, just like healers do, players have to be sacrificed for the greater good. if that means killing off the last of the mobs and the healer ends up dying, than hopefully that was the best decision for the good of the group. it is important for barbs to learn to play self sufficient if all they are going to have is pots in case the healer is too busy for them or goes down.

    theres been many times my barb was last one standing and there was many times my barb saved the healer and other party members that were better at staying alive. theres been times, my barb has died for the greater good for the group so they had the chance to get away or someone had the chance to raise up the dead and regroup. the barb class may not have self sufficiency built into it like most other classes and its not a class that everyone can handle playing, but whats more important is how the person behind the character plays the class.
    oh of course this can happen quite often. Many times have barbs saved the party as well or any other class. Yes self sufficient can also go south. there was no denying of that either. not ever group or encounter will be perfect. Sometimes you just get a streak of bad luck thrown your way as well. ran through that litany traps 50 times or something then 51 it kills you. it happens.

    there are times where my build despite being self sufficient i did something or i didnt hit something where it cost me. it happens nor will i rage over it lol. sure i might be annoyed at myself if i cause something stupid to happen to my toon. My point was i normally don't die. it's not a god complex or anything i just usually somehow do. sometimes just pure luck or my saves, evasion or whatever. so yes i will then heal up if i can because i've made sure i had so many ways i can heal now. I can't say every toon can do this nor should i say they need to. My survival has saved a lot people is my point.

    case point we 4 manned a elite at level blue dragon. 3 first lives 1 cleric 200hp 2 sorcs both wf about 350 and my toon. Alright fight actually went a lot better then i expected but my mistake was i didnt use a superior critical potion that you got in the bigby box and it ended up doing more then i expected. when i looked up everyone was dead. Dragon was at 5% giant 35% Had my choice of using the superior made a difference. maybe instead i chose the level 15 one instead. Had i made the right call i might of been able to pop up manyshot them to death but i would never know.

  18. #238
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    My point was that the majority of people who have the veiwpoint of "parties that have dedicated healers work better".... are playin gnon-healing tank types.. and not playing healers.

    it would be a different story if a guy playing a Cleric says... "I will heal you, so we will be a more efficient party"... then what we have now which is "heal ME! so we will be a more efficient party!"

    See what I am getting at?

    My opinion is that "I" want to be self sufficient.

    "I" hate waiting for perfect groups. I kno wdarn well that you can do any quest without a perfect group. You can do raidsd without healers for instance....

    I also hate being dependant on others. I want to take care of myself.

    On the other side of the coin.... I hate it when I do play a healing class.. and people can't stay alive if I blink... and force me to use scrols and wands.... when they could be using scrolls wands pots... etc.....

    My toons carry pots! I self heal.

    Yes.. expensive for a new guy... I understand....

    I actually have no problem using my resources to help people.... but I woul dlike to see them try to help themselves...

    and I really, reallym, rreally dislike the babysitting healer role.



    But... I admit that some quests go waaay better with a good healer.
    Even as self sufficient as I try to be, I get saved from sudden deaths quiet often by great healer players....

    There are also some fights that you really need to pour on the DPS.. and they don't work to well if you have to stop and heal up ever two seconds...


    But back to the OP.....

    I have seen this so often...

    Experiences players with zero self healing ability...

    I always rememebr doing an old epic quest where the cleric died.. and none of us could raise.

    I had pots.. but it seemed no one else did.

    I watched them whittle away slowly to death.....
    I eneded up alone.... and eventually died too.

    But IMO, we would have succeeeded if everyone had simply brought pots.

    That quest also taught me that if at all possible, I need to have a means of rasing the dead on my toons.



    I can thnk of tons of other quests where I found myself the last man standing... just because I could self heal.


    it is one thing to run off by yoursel fthinkin gyou can solo half a dungeon.

    It is another to have zero ability to self heal.......
    See talon said it best right here.

    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    A surefire way to get booted from my groups is thus:

    1) Someone joins and asks what quest we are running. What, you weren't able to READ the description of the LFM you CLICKED on? That really makes me doubt your intelligence/ability to follow directions.

    2) People who join a group and immediately demand "share." Yeah, hello to you too.

    3) Whenever someone zergs ahead of the rest of the group in a quest, gets high alert, and then dies. Don't get me wrong-- I like to zerg quests, I generally finish a TR in around a week with no box. But, when we zerg elite quests I like to stick together so that mobs do not overwhelm. I also like to get as many bonuses as I can the first run, so bypassing mobs isn't conducive to that.

    Basically, it all comes down to attitude and willingness to follow directions moreso than gear or build.
    haha had that happen earlier tonight doing a feast or famine hard farming at heroic level. had a first life druid go running off getting orange alerts and he even said im a solo build. *** are you playing with a group then. Did i mention he didnt kill ****? Oh right did i mention when he ran out of sp whatever he was doing with it he ran back to us and just sat there? Yeah dude was complete ****. A waste of a spot imo. So not only are you out of sp twice early and have nothing left but you bring your **** storm of stuff you stirred up and expect us to fix your mess.

    this is where people get ****ed off at each other. That toon was completely useless. He was a bad zerger and a waste of a spot. if you can't handle the stuff you drag don't bring it to the rest of the group when you become a failure. this is exactly what happened tonight. so we kicked him out right after that. I'm not going to waste my time on a player like that who fails to do whatever he/she was doing and expect us to clean up his mess.

  19. #239
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    Whenever i read a thread like this, my first thought is always along these lines:

    If you are a vet player, and really don't like risking someone not being up to your standards, why are you making lfm's?

    If you're a vet player, haven't you made any friends? If not, what does that tell you?

    When i make an lfm, i am specifically hoping to get newer players to join them. I don't need or want vets to join. I have enough friends and guildmates that if i actually need help with something i can usually get it. On those rare occasions when none of them are online, there are plenty of things i can do solo.

    I saw it posted by someone else, either here or in another thread, that the lfm system is basically for new players. How you can post one and expect not to get new players is beyond me. Seriously, if you can't tolerate them, don't post lfm's.
    when i read this i thought exactly one thing a 45th life tr who constantly griefs others with casting grease and getting ****ed off if they died. I keep thinking to myself are you freaking kidding me? if your stupid mentality of constantly casting grease would stop it maybe they would die from falling and slipping into that trap. it makes you look like the fool if you were the one to cast it then get mad because they died BECAUSE you did that grease.

    So for me i'm getting sick and tired of players like that give others a bad name.

    As for the lfms and the new player thing i take on all players as long as they want to help out each other in a team and just have fun at whatever speed is mentioned. if they want to act like the player i mentioned above or post above i wrote with the druid. Then they will find their way quickly out of my groups. i will take a new player over anyone who is a jerk, griefs, or just doesnt listen.

  20. #240
    Community Member eden2760's Avatar
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    Going back a bit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    What I would like to know is, as a new player knowing you still had alot to learn, did you join the "Elite LFM" still knowing it was possibly too hard for you at the moment and that your contribution would most likely be -10% xp to the group?

    Because even though this thread has derailed alot, the real problem is, I think, the mixing of good/bad old/new players in the same environnement.

    <snip />

    Also, the players who take the game too lightly won't understand why someone will shout to them because they didn't come out or release once they were dead 10secs after completion of a farm. They just don't see it the same way at all.
    I think this sums it up entirely.

    There are different player skill levels and different players find different things fun about the game.

    Trying to force yourself into a LFM that is beyond your capabilities (as indicated by Vets only, BYOH, and other lfm messages that indicate a higher level of performance is expected) and then getting ****y when neither your skills, your build, nor the rest of the party carries you is just idiotic. Period.

    But this is what happens. All the time. And then because the elite LFM posters don't condescend to new players and change their farm into a training run (as is our responsibility, trololol?), we get accused of being "elitist" and told that we have no life when calling those out who applied to the LFM without meeting the qualifications of that LFM.

    <snark>This applies more to bad players and less to new players imo, as new players *seem* to know better than to join those, and bad players just don't have a clue that they're way out of their league. </snark>
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