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  1. #1
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    Default So do you like the new spell power skills?

    So i've been playing with the new spell power skill tax, and personally i dislike it a lot. I understand the desire by the devs to make these skills more appealing and more viable...however to do this you would have to increase the skill points clerics, fvs, bards, druids, and sorcs...(wizards have tons of skill points). classes with only 1 spell point to spend like clerics wouldn't be able to get much out of this as you would have to choose...concentrate or heal. you can do great healing but without quicken you can easily be disrupted...or you can cast ok healing but rarely get disrupted. the other thing is that to make this viable would be to try and evenly spread out all your stats to get past the negative impact of having only 8 in a needed stat. druids sorcs and bards woudl have to pump into their dump stat (int) just to avoid getting -2 on their spellcraft skill. though this doesn't give you negative spell power it means you need more points just to start adding spell power.personally i don't understand why you would include spell power into skills that traditionally have nothing to do with how powerful your spell is. there are better ways to make these skills more viable...for example:

    Spellcraft is skill developed by wizards through years of studying and understanding magical objects and artifacts. it's supposed to be used to identify enchantments, potions, runes, wards, and other arcane based magic devices/items/tools. a good use for this skill if it's included in the game is to use it instead of concentration to disable slave collars or to see and disable spell traps and spell wards. you can also include in future game play....spell barriers that have a spellcraft check to destroy, cannith crystals that have unique effects on environments that needs a spellcraft check to understand the effect...." you walk into a room with 4 cannith crystals...one of the crystals is creating waves of heat but you can't tell which. you can destroy all of them but take damage, you can examine them using spellcraft checks to identify and disable them, or you can examine them using disable device checks and disable them."

    heal: this is actually a focus on mundane healing ability...using bandages/potions/needles/etc (basically a doctor or medic). it was never supposed to be about spell power....you don't need to know how to fix a body to blast it with healing energy. a better way to make this a more useful feat is to have it increase the effect of healing pots on the body as a player now knows how to use them more efficiently. to decrease the time physical imperments impact you...like hamstring, walking through a bramble spell, or being poisoned...or remove them completely with a healing kit. also you can have heal skill checks in encounters and random nationals....we have this already in the druids deep chain once where you heal sick patience. but for more examples...the encounter in the kings forest about the knight who is poisoned with a magically resistant poison and needs a cure....you can a) run across the map and get special cure or b)use a heal skill check and a healing kit to see if you can cure him of the poison. another example :in tangleroot you come across a slave in a scorpion pit who is poisoned...he dies and you get to loot his chest...instead make it so you can use heal skill and a heal kit to cure him...if you succeed he gives you a nicer chest...and xp...hmm>>

    repair is the construct version of heal and would work in the same way as heal does. it's basically an engineer/mechanic for constructs. have it do the same things heal would do ...increase the effect of repair pots on constructs. Artis can use it as a cheaper way to repair their pets without having to burn sp on it. repair would also be able to shorten physical impairments on constructs like heal does on fleshies. another thing you can do with repair is have it be used in things like cannith challenges to repair cannith extractor crystals. this way you don't have to have a wiz. or arti to do repairs. it can also be used to do repairs to ballistas or broken levers. For example in gh maze of madness you have some broken levers that makes you have to go on top to get access to a chest....hmm with a repair check and a repair kit you can now fix that lever and open the gate. you can also create future events or optionals to make repair skills needed...like creating an optional jail cell where the door lever is broken but with a repair skill you can fix the lever and get the door open..you can create other ways to do this like finding the lever piece or finding an optional way in but it gives more options. (repair shouldn't be a skill wizards really needs since we now have artificers anyway so making these changes means you can remove the skill as a wizard skill...good rogue and bard one though)

    as for perform...there is NO reason anyone but a bard should have to take this skill. it's to show how well you can play musical instruments sing and dance. none of those things are related to sonic spells. to make this a NEEDED skill for other classes to justify changing skills to effect spell power is a very bad idea.

    the spell power skill shift is just a bad idea...it makes building spell power more difficult in the long run. even if you make all these skills non class specific you still would have them be stat specific.
    Last edited by Tolchuck; 07-15-2013 at 11:35 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Danemoth's Avatar
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    What are you spending ability points on that people cannot afford these skills? This is an honest question, coming from someone who is currently playing a monk, a class requiring decent scores in 4 Ability Score to function effectively.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    What are you spending ability points on that people cannot afford these skills? This is an honest question, coming from someone who is currently playing a monk, a class requiring decent scores in 4 Ability Score to function effectively.
    My sorc maxes out Concentration, Balance, Jump, and UMD. I put 1 point in Tumble just cause. On Lamania it takes almost every remaining point to max out spellcraft. I think I had three points left to splash on other skills at level 20. It helps that I have a +5 int tome. I imagine there are some people that do not have one of those.

    I will admit that jump is an indulgence, but I hate having to cast it all the time, and I like to jump. If I were to put those points anywhere else, it would be in search or heal since those are now valuable also. As it stands the vast majority of my sorc's skills are 0.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    What are you spending ability points on that people cannot afford these skills? This is an honest question, coming from someone who is currently playing a monk, a class requiring decent scores in 4 Ability Score to function effectively.
    On my second life Sorc I spent 16 build points for CHA and 10 build points for CON. That left me 8 points to play with. I don't like being encumbered so I put 4 into STR. I already wanted Concentration, UMD, and Balance so I put 4 points in INT.

    Now I need 2 more skill points for Spellcraft and Repair. I can start with a starting INT of 15 the +1 tome will take it to 16 and I can afford all my skill points but the 3 extra points of INT will cost me 4 build points.

    Or start at 14 INT for 2 more build points and play catch up after tomes. That would need me to start a 3rd life to stay close to where I am now.

    Not even touching on Repair now a cross class skill instead of enhancement.

    I like the Monk relation though. My Warforged Sorc will now need maxed CHA, high CON, and an INT higher than some toons starting CON.

    Adding Spellcraft and Repair needs moves my dump stat from INT to STR, DEX, and WIS.

  5. #5
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    I must say I dislike it a lot, too. Not only is it a skill tax, it is also a gear slot tax, when you suddenly have to fit in 2-3 more effects.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie_Seaglen View Post
    I will admit that jump is an indulgence, but I hate having to cast it all the time, and I like to jump. If I were to put those points anywhere else, it would be in search or heal since those are now valuable also. As it stands the vast majority of my sorc's skills are 0.
    Unless you are a trapper, Search is useless once you have a source of secret door detection (from level 1), or eventually True Seeing (from the DM's set if not before). Even with the proposed changes, it will not make any difference unless you are maxing out search.

    Having a Jump skill of more than, say, 8 on an arcane is quite redundant, unless you have some other 1st level spell you can't do without?

    Since Spellcraft is an INT-based skill, any cheap improvement you can make there works double duty (+1 skill point, and +1 Spellcraft). Take 2 points in STR and redirect the rest to INT so that you have INT 14.

    (Assuming a +2 tome at level 7, an INT 14 Sorcerer has 4 skill points up to level 7, then 5 after that; after Concentration & Spellcraft, you have 2-3 points to play with).

  7. #7
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Left side of Turbine's mouth: "We're getting rid of toughness enhancements because we don't like their de facto mandatory status."

    Right side of Turbine's mouth: "Welcome the new mandatory."

  8. #8
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    they're not really mandatory.

    spellcraft- i can see being high priority, because it affects so many other spells, but we're not talking huge amounts of damage. Probably less than 10% increase between full investment and NO investment.

    assuming 350 spell power for a max/emp spell with ~125 between enhancments and gear( this is purposefully low, and without spell craft), a wizard/arti with high int and full skill points would have ~40=23+17(mod), so a 390 total.

    390-350/350~11% difference. That's the difference between full and none.


    as for the others:
    repair, on a reconstruct, will be 33pts less between the person who maxes the skill out and the one who puts one point

    heal: also 33pts less between the one who maxes heal or puts one point.

    those are both assuming all other modifier's are equal.

  9. #9
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    I think they should make the spell power augments able to be slotted in any slot.

  10. #10
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    You end up at over 200 spell power without ANY ranks invested spellcraft.

    If you FULL invest, you're only getting 23 points higher than if you 0 invest.

    You're talking sub 10% difference.

    So, there you have it... if you want to have 100% max spell damage you have to give something else up.

    If you don't want 100% max spell damage... don't.

    It used to be you could get to the max without giving anything up... Now you have to make a choice. It's not "as" easy... But it sure ain't hard.

  11. #11
    Community Member hirmor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    You end up at over 200 spell power without ANY ranks invested spellcraft.

    If you FULL invest, you're only getting 23 points higher than if you 0 invest.

    You're talking sub 10% difference.

    So, there you have it... if you want to have 100% max spell damage you have to give something else up.

    If you don't want 100% max spell damage... don't.

    It used to be you could get to the max without giving anything up... Now you have to make a choice. It's not "as" easy... But it sure ain't hard.
    I tend to agree. Spellcraft is not a game breaker for Sorcs and it is a little boost to Wizards that definitely need a little. Same goes for heal skill which is so often neglected.

  12. #12
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
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    Yeah, not a tax. It's not even a dealbreaker.

    On my FvS, I ran around without any spellpower at first. The I LR'd and picked up full Spellpower (sacrificed 2 ponts of cha for the points).

    I couldn't tell a difference.

    *yawn*
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