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  1. #1
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    Default What we call, the "Sorc Juggernaut."

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    Last edited by curingwound; 07-29-2015 at 03:19 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member LWT's Avatar
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    Default gear

    what gear and starting stats?

  3. #3
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Is this just a shiradi build with evasion as well or am I missing something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Is this just a shiradi build with evasion as well or am I missing something?
    You are missing something. There is a clever synergy of:

    • Not having strength to melee
    • Not having trap skills
    • Not having deadly weapon (the most meaningful weapon buff)
    • Not having manyshot
    • Not having as many feats
    • But using a name that implies all of the above!
    • Stay missing something my friend!

  5. #5
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    Just to be even handed, I also need to point out the affront to the Tukaw build as well

    http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/181901

    Bonus points to any old-timers who know what it was before reading up on it. Extra points if you know what the golden cockroach is as well.

  6. #6
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Just thinking about it I see a major problem with it even as a shiradi caster since you won't have wind dance or whatever it's called which gives you some defensive mobility.

  7. #7
    Community Member BigSlugger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Just to be even handed, I also need to point out the affront to the Tukaw build as well

    http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/181901

    Bonus points to any old-timers who know what it was before reading up on it. Extra points if you know what the golden cockroach is as well.
    Tukaw was my first thought upon reading the OP, but I have no idea what the golden cockroach is.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    You are missing something. There is a clever synergy of:
    • Not having strength to melee
    • Not having trap skills
    • Not having deadly weapon (the most meaningful weapon buff)
    • Not having manyshot
    • Not having as many feats
    • But using a name that implies all of the above!
    • Stay missing something my friend!
    Yeah C, this is clearly not just a Shiradi with evasion. Look at all those things it doesn't have but Shiradi sorcs have. I don't know what I'd do if my Shiradi sorc didn't have manyshot or deadly weapons. I'd probably re-roll as a Juggernaut and spend my days puking purple. Stay missing something Char, cause if you make too much sense, someone is gonna call you on it.

  9. #9
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Juggarnot. Tukaw kinda.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    You are missing something. There is a clever synergy of:

    • Not having strength to melee
    • Not having trap skills
    • Not having deadly weapon (the most meaningful weapon buff)
    • Not having manyshot
    • Not having as many feats
    • But using a name that implies all of the above!
    • Stay missing something my friend!
    Look up the meaning of the word Juggernaut. I said we are calling it a Juggernaut Sorc, didn't refer to it as anything you have said above.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggernaut

    P.S. not missing much these days.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    You are missing something. There is a clever synergy of:

    • Not having strength to melee
    • Not having trap skills
    • Not having deadly weapon (the most meaningful weapon buff)
    • Not having manyshot
    • Not having as many feats
    • But using a name that implies all of the above!
    • Stay missing something my friend!
    Everything I claim to do in this post, I do on a regular basis. The word Juggernaut doesn't need to make me a trapper with deadly and melee strength.


  12. #12
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curingwound View Post
    Everything I claim to do in this post, I do on a regular basis. The word Juggernaut doesn't need to make me a trapper with deadly and melee strength.

    Seems pretty clear that this is not a screenie of an EE run of FOT. And while I've seen many non standard builds perform well in harder content, this has been due to the player partially - but more to how much weight was being pulled for him by others in the party.

    Also, it would be a grievous error to refer to this build in the same category of the hybrid artificer build. If referrring to a casting build as a melee hybrid isn't enough for you. The jugg can pull it's weight fully geared in an EE shortman of FOT.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  13. #13
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Is this just a shiradi build with evasion as well or am I missing something?
    Yep oh look a shiradi caster with evasion !

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by curingwound View Post
    So my guildies and I have been working on the build we are calling the Sorc Juggernaut.
    This is the reason that you are getting flack, not the build itself. If you are going to name a build after an existing build, there is an expectation that it will have design goals similar to the original build. Not just named after it in an apparently arbitrary manner.

    This character, from what can be told from the character sheet, looks to be a fairly standard 2mnk/2pal splashed Sorc. They make for great Shiradi Spammers. They are certainly capable of everything that you listed as goals. I am sure that you will have a lot of fun with it! But given the thread title most people would be expecting a Sorcerer based character with high sustainable melee damage, self healing, high saving throws, and situational burst ranged damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    This is the reason that you are getting flack, not the build itself. If you are going to name a build after an existing build, there is an expectation that it will have design goals similar to the original build. Not just named after it in an apparently arbitrary manner.

    This character, from what can be told from the character sheet, looks to be a fairly standard 2mnk/2pal splashed Sorc. They make for great Shiradi Spammers. They are certainly capable of everything that you listed as goals. I am sure that you will have a lot of fun with it! But given the thread title most people would be expecting a Sorcerer based character with high sustainable melee damage, self healing, high saving throws, and situational burst ranged damage.
    You're totally right we did name it in an arbitrary manner, we are referring to it as something considered destructive and unstoppable. Which is the actual meaning of Juggernaut. To be honest, I didn't really care to even post this. My guildies just asked me to since I'm the first capped.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by curingwound View Post
    You're totally right we did name it in an arbitrary manner, we are referring to it as something considered destructive and unstoppable. Which is the actual meaning of Juggernaut.
    In my first two posts, I was making the point that splashing 2 pally/2 monk was hardly original. Now lets address your name... Juggernaut. Like many cool sounding/meaning names... someone had already used it. In this case, it is still one of the top end builds in the game, documented by a 37 (as of this point in time) page long thread with clearly stated benefits of the build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurzifer View Post
    [FONT=Century Gothic]
    Then this build might be right for you, I present the Juggernaut.
    Over the last four months I continuously developed and improved this build.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurzifer View Post
    [FONT=Century Gothic]
    Pros/Cons of the build:
    + Best selfhealing via Reconstruct (No undead targeting, no healing curse, good buff etc, With MA Ring its 435 per Cast, with slotted Cleaver and Potion its 556 per Cast)
    + A lot of Hitpoints (I am sitting on ~1000)
    + Very good saves (With the right gear easily around 50 each – Both versions, paladin Version shines here)
    + High damage output in melee and ranged combat
    + Full trap skills
    + Evasion
    + Suited for Solo and Group Play
    + PRR up to 60 possible (Sitting on 54 at the moment)
    + Clickies last longer (Displacement, Deathward, GH etc)
    + Versatile Selfbuffs (DR Breaking, Damage bonus, Haste Armor, AC Bonus, Tensers)

    - I challenge you to find one
    The Juggernaut thread has remained in the first 3 pages of "new posts" for almost six months straight. It gave a detailed build, and the OP has continued to answer questions through the life of the thread. Your gem on the other hand, offered a screenshot and called it a day. When someone asks me about the juggernaut build... it will not be this thread that I send them too.

    TL/DR:
    While you are free to call this the sorc juggernaut.... everyone else calls something else the juggernaut
    Last edited by Ancient; 07-15-2013 at 07:27 PM.

  17. #17
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curingwound View Post
    You're totally right we did name it in an arbitrary manner, we are referring to it as something considered destructive and unstoppable. Which is the actual meaning of Juggernaut. To be honest, I didn't really care to even post this. My guildies just asked me to since I'm the first capped.
    I'm going to design small car, made of recycled beer cans, reaching 60MPH max speed, 25 horse power, sits made from used coachs.
    I'm going to call it Mercodes, because, like Mercedeses, it will also have an engine (or engine-like product).

    Wonder what motorisation world tell.
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  18. #18
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    nobody cares what the definition of juggernaut is.

    If you are going to preset a build, you need to do more than post a vague screen shot.

    based on your screenshot, this "Build" has been done many times.
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  19. #19
    Community Member eden2760's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    nobody cares what the definition of juggernaut is.

    If you are going to preset a build, you need to do more than post a vague screen shot.

    based on your screenshot, this "Build" has been done many times.
    I'm in guild with Curingwound and we've all done pretty similar builds. I think it's pretty standard for a shiradi sorc. I LRed out the 2 monk for an additional 2 sorc so I could grab Air Savant III, a few more sp, and a lvl 9 Spell. Here's what I'm rolling at the moment.

    18/2 Shiradi Sorcerer/Paladin

    Stats:

    Str: 10 Base + 4 Tome
    Dex: 12 Base + 4 Tome
    Con: 18 Base + 4 Tome
    Int: 12 Base + 4 Tome
    Wis: 6 Base + 4 Tome
    Cha: 16 Base + 4 Tome + 6 level ups

    Past Lives of note: 3x Sorc, Wiz, FvS each

    Feats:
    Maximize
    Empower
    PL Sorc (Savant Requirement instead of evocation)
    PL Wiz (Mostly for free Max/Empower on MM SLA which is my staple spell. I find this to be quite a boon on Orange/Rednameds)
    Toughness
    Epic Toughness
    Mental Toughness
    Improved Mental Toughness
    Force of Personality

    Enhancements of note:
    Sorc Air Savant I-III
    Racial Toughness I-IV
    Storm, Force, Repair Manipulation I-VII
    Deadly Shocks, Charged Spellcasting I-V (mostly for Savant III reqs)
    Sorc Energy of the Dragonblooded I-III
    Sorc Cha I-II
    Paladin Toughness
    WF Con I-II
    WF Inscribed Armor I

    Spells of note:

    1: Pro From Evil, Nightshield, Jump, Magic Missile*
    2: Resist energy, Blur, Invis, Knock
    3: Haste, Rage, Chain Missile*, Displacement*
    4: Dimension Door, Force Missiles, Solid Fog
    5: Eladar's, Niac's, Break Enchantment
    6: GH, Reconstruct
    7: (None really) Protection From Elements Mass, Prismatic Spray, Greater Teleport
    8: Polar Ray, Symbol of Death?
    9: Energy Drain

    Current twists: Energy Drain, Endless Faith.

    Proposed gearlist (still in progress):

    Head EH Black Dragonscale helm: +3 Insightful Con ; Good Luck +2, Heavy Fort;
    Neck Lootgen: 8 con
    Goggles GS SP Conc Opp
    Trinket Planar Focus of Erudiction +3 Insightful Cha
    Docent Green Cormyrian Docent
    Cloak Ghost Waking cloak EH-EE
    Bracers SunSoul/Lootgen; Superior Parrying
    Belt Arkat's Cord EE; 14 PRR, Deathblock
    Ring1 Epic Ring of MA; 35 HP, 1 Con
    Ring 2 Epic Ring of Elemental Essence; 1 Dex
    Ring (3) Ring of Djinn (SR Tanking)
    Boots Tier 2 Halcyon Boots; 1 Cha, 2 Dex
    Gloves GS HP Conc Opp
    Weapon Twlight; 120 Magnetism

    Feedback very welcome.
    Last edited by eden2760; 07-18-2013 at 10:04 AM.
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  20. #20
    Community Member RTFM's Avatar
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    Default Sorc-er-not?

    Sorcernot?
    RTFM, DOOF, and MACHINATION on Khyber. Guild: Toy Soldiers.

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