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  1. #1
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    Default Which guilds use chat software?

    My computer is slow and so is my fleshware so i try to advoid adding software unless it is absolutely necessary. Some guilds use third party chat software and this might be convenient but could add to several little problems that I see every once in a while.

    According to support.turbine.com "...causes of connection issues for the game client are:...(VOIP) applications like Skype and similar, ...chat tools like Ventrillo, TeamSpeak etc..."

    So how are players going to know which of the nearly 2400 guilds on Thelanis are using software that can cause connection issues?

  2. #2
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    My computer is slow and so is my fleshware so i try to advoid adding software unless it is absolutely necessary. Some guilds use third party chat software and this might be convenient but could add to several little problems that I see every once in a while.

    According to support.turbine.com "...causes of connection issues for the game client are:...(VOIP) applications like Skype and similar, ...chat tools like Ventrillo, TeamSpeak etc..."

    So how are players going to know which of the nearly 2400 guilds on Thelanis are using software that can cause connection issues?
    You're confusing client-side and server-side connection issues. VOIP may cause client-side connection issues, but never server-side connection issues. I can have any software running on my computer besides DDO; this will not cause lag on the server.

  3. #3
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    And to be fair, while my guild doesn't like it or use it, my personal static group completely hearts teamspeak and we have it running basically any time we are playing the game and the three of us have VERY little lag issues, if any at all. I can't speak for vent or the others, but teamspeak has not affected my game in any noticeable way when it's one and I see no improvement the days I know Cod and Dre aren't around and don't turn it on to sit in it alone.

    So you can't just blame the guilds, I'd be REALLY astonished if mine was the only static group to have a private server of some kind that works 1000% better than the in game voice chat.

    I'm STILL Trying to figure out how to adjust my settings when I'm in a group and one guy is saying I'm blasting his speakers and audio, two more say I'm just right, and the last two say they can't hear me at all in the same party. But you know, it's obviously on my end because I don't know how to adjust speakers to fix all extremes at the same time!
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  4. #4
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    Default My mind is like a steel trap! It is rusty and it squeeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    You're confusing client-side and server-side connection issues.
    Perhaps I am confused but before retiring I had been programming since 1970 and working on hardware from 1973. For many years I built networks and for the last couple of decades before retiring I tought students to program in Pascal and the C family of languages.

    The problem is not whether the software is server or cliant side but that it all has to interact. Adding a service that contends for reasources anwhere in the linked system could cause strange things to happen in other parts of the system. Not long ago I grouped with people runnung third party chat software. After grouping my bare bones installation started freezing up every few minutes for a few seconds and then resume normal operation. After leaving the group everything started working normal again.

    Don't forget that my system has to update the location of all party member based on information recieved from their systems. If that information is delayed by a third party application then I expect it could cause my system to behave strangely.

    Turbines caution about using third party software may well be correct but I don't have the time to explain why I believe that.

    So i would still like to avoid grouping or even being in the same area as players using such third party software but I can see no way to determine this.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    Don't forget that my system has to update the location of all party member based on information recieved from their systems. If that information is delayed by a third party application then I expect it could cause my system to behave strangely.
    This isn't exactly correct. Your system updates based off of server side information, not information from other clients. What you describe is only true in peer-to-peer networking.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelphistez View Post
    This isn't exactly correct. Your system updates based off of server side information, not information from other clients. What you describe is only true in peer-to-peer networking.
    Thanks for the information, Maelphistez, and perhaps I am incorrect. For all I know they have that quantum coupling stuff working and the server just "knows" where the other player is located and how they are moving. Back in the old days the server could only get that sort of information from the other machine.

    The truth is that I do not know exactly why Turbine wrote that chat software could cause connection problems. The text looked to be written by computer guys and not users so I would take their advice over end users any day.

    The point of this thread is not whether Turbine is right about third party chat software because I assume they are. What I want to know is how I can tell if other players are running such things because it does seem to make my system run oddly.

    There are all sorts of little glitches with DDO but third party chat software should be something that is easy to avoid. Maybe it won't be because I seem to be mistaken about many things.

  7. #7
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    Thanks for the information, Maelphistez, and perhaps I am incorrect. For all I know they have that quantum coupling stuff working and the server just "knows" where the other player is located and how they are moving. Back in the old days the server could only get that sort of information from the other machine.
    The location of the player is definitely stored on the server; you can observe this when there is lag as you get teleported back to an earlier location. The server retrieves input from the client (keyboard/mouse input) then updates the location, after which the updated location is sent back to the client.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    The truth is that I do not know exactly why Turbine wrote that chat software could cause connection problems. The text looked to be written by computer guys and not users so I would take their advice over end users any day.
    It can give some problems as third party software sucks up bandwidth. You can probably see the lag of other persons (standing still for a while)... but that's as far as it goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    The point of this thread is not whether Turbine is right about third party chat software because I assume they are. What I want to know is how I can tell if other players are running such things because it does seem to make my system run oddly.
    Well... it's generally hard to tell. It is very likely that VOIP software is used when people from the same guild aren't communicating in a quest that requires some coordination. This may also be the case when you see dice rolls without a call. However, they could also be using guild chat.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    What I want to know is how I can tell if other players are running such things because it does seem to make my system run oddly.
    Ask them?

    Or you might save yourself the trouble since Forzah is right. The only way you might be affected by someone else using VOIP is that you'll see their character lagging because it affects their (and only their) upload. But it definitely can't make your system "run oddly". If your system runs oddly while you group with people, it has a different cause.

    EDIT: Seems like Forzah beat me to it.

  9. #9
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    Default Are you a system person?

    Quote Originally Posted by Micron View Post
    ,,,If your system runs oddly while you group with people, it has a different cause.
    Thank you for the information. Are you a system person with a lot of knowledge about DDO software? I have no speicial knowledge of the software and can only make educated guesses based on experience.

    Asycronus communications are easier but synchronous communications tend to be faster. The problem with syncronized communication is that the data must arrive within narrow time window or it screws things up. if a player is running a third party chat program it will probably be running with a similar priority to the DDO application. In this case the OS will allot some time slices to the chat program and others to DDO about equallly. This could cause that user's motion update information to be delayed past the close of the time window if there is a time window. If another users machine is waiting for that information to be relayed by the server with the original delay and an additonal delay added by the server then there does seem to be a potential for syncronization problems.

    Whan I grouped with people using Ventrillo my mychince started freezing periodically upon entering the quest and stopped freezing after the group was disbanded. When I searched the support site it was clear that third party chat software could cause communications problems and I believe them.

    If it is not possible to avoid being in the same area as third party chat users perhaps they could dedicate one server to players with bare bones installations to see if things work any better. It does not seem to be enoiugh for Turbine to tell people that the listed programs are known fo cause problems.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    Are you a system person with a lot of knowledge about DDO software?
    Sadly I'm not a system person (it sounds like a cool sort of person to be!) but I've used "DDO software" for 7 years on about half a dozen EU and US servers, on pretty average to low end rigs, and grouped hundreds of times with people who used Ventrillo, TeamSpeak, Mumble and other VOIP apps and not once have I experienced anything unusual in such groups in terms of performance on my side, nor do I know anyone who has. Additionally, the Turbine support page you quote quite obviously only refers to connection issues experienced by people who run the 3rd party apps. There is no mention of any impact on other players.

    Not that any of that is going to convince you.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micron View Post
    ... not once have I experienced anything unusual in such groups in terms of performance...
    Wow, are you ever lucky. Everyone else seems to have problems logging in the first time, lagging, random crashes to desktop, and lost connections to the chat server. Just the other night I was just finishing up that quest with the acid room jumping and it warned about the loss of connection to the chat server. A few seconds later it went to the loading screen and when I re-entered the quest about a minute later it had reset and my entire two hours of progress had been lost.

    DDO just isn't fun anymore so I'll go do something else. Good luck with your quests.

  12. #12
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    I have those problems like everyone else but they don't have anything to do with VOIP apps, which I thought was what we were talking about here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kmnh View Post
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