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  1. #1
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Default Quest Ransack AKA how to kill a (part of the) game

    http://i.imgur.com/cigSGJy.jpg

    For those who can't view it:

    Quest Ransack is a stacking penalty for repeatedly playing the same quest. You may play each difficulty level once per character, per incarnation without incurring Quest Ransack penalties. After that, each playthrough will add a 30& stacking penalty to base XP, up to a maximum of -90%. Every day the penalty is reduced by 5%. Each other quest with a daily bonus played will reduce the penalty by 1%.



    This is how you kill you game. Now, I'm not a guy who TRs a lot but this is totally game breaking. Who even came up with this idea? Are you going to sell "Quest ransack reducing tools" in the store? If you play a quest, you ONLY NEED TO WAIT 18 DAYS IF YOU WANNA PLAY IT AGAIN FOR XP. Does this even look normal to you?

    I really don't care about this "daily bonus", whatever it is. I'm not going to run Restless Isles just because of a stupid bonus.

    This is, people, how you drive people away from a game.
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  2. #2
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    Default

    I don't like farming so i generally like this system
    BUT i think that two run without penalties as in live would be good.

    18 days? they are 6 if you don't ransack the quest.

    I understand the new system but a balance between farming quest and changing quest would be a nice idea.

  3. #3
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyxxx View Post
    I don't like farming so i generally like this system
    BUT i think that two run without penalties as in live would be good.

    18 days? they are 6 if you don't ransack the quest.

    I understand the new system but a balance between farming quest and changing quest would be a nice idea.
    90% penalty at 5% per day is 18 days. True is that people won't even bother farm 1 more than once per difficulty with 30% XP penalty.

    With this system, after I've done the major quests once per difficulty, I will just stop playing for a week and then come back to do the same quests again. Do they really think I'm going to do Amrath or Restless Isles or 3BC with this system? Lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  4. #4
    The Hatchery Hutoth's Avatar
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    Default overkill

    If it applies to raids, it is overkill: If you cannot reduce your repeat penalty to zero in the time it takes your raid timer to expire (without using a bypass), then it is demented, because they actively WANT us to get multiples of 20 completions. So, yeah... for raids it is very silly, and maybe its another example of "we made it terrible so we can fix it to look like heroes later".

    As for quests... it is overkill.

    Increase first time bonuses AND remove ransack penalties after a MUCH shorter time period: even 24 hours with a -30% penalty will seem like an authoritarian overreaction, so think it through please oh beloved game designers.

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  5. #5
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Default

    6 Runs on Elite, 1 Hard and 1 Normal before ransack kicks in please?
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  6. #6
    Community Member Raoull's Avatar
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    Default

    I like the idea of this mechanic, but yeah, it does seem a bit overkill.

    Whatever the pentaly, it should time out completely after a week, ala chest ransack.

    The penalty also seems a bit harsh. 10% seems a bit too light to me, perhaps 20% is the sweet spot.


    But, one thing that others seem to have missed, is you can speed up the decay by.... running new quests. So I don't think it will be much of an issue for raids, even as is. If you have run 15 quests during your 3 day wait you won't get any penalty at all. Plenty of people might not do quite 15 in that span though.


    Drop the penalty to 20, and add a mechanism that wipes it all out after a week, and I think it will be fine.

    At that level, I don't think farming would even go away. EEEHNC would still get done (or something similar). Just not quite the huge repetitions currently done.


    I do wonder though.... how many guys that do those huge reps will try doing a wider variety of quests, and actually find that they enjoy the game more? I don't now, quite likely less than rage quit because they can't play in their odd way any more....

    (I sometime do this sort of grinding for XP, but rarely quite as many times as the hardcore... and also not all that often in any case.)
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  7. #7
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    Default

    I like the idea of the rework, but the penalties seem very much over the top.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  8. #8
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    Angry A Horrible Idea

    This is a horrible idea. It will kill grouping. It will be less groups listed as people will run quests less often due to repeat restrictions. People will be less inclined to help people out if doing so adds -30% to a timer that they may be waiting out. The fact that you have new +50% base xp pots in the dojo that last for 2 1/2 days could be taken as Turbine killing xp while then offering a way to buy a pass arund it for another run or two. At high levels there is a lack of content. If you make it so people take a 2 week break for quest xp timers to come back they will play other games. When they log back in many of there friends may be taken a ransack break that does not correspond with there break. Sooner or later they will get tired of never seeing friends in game and perhaps just switch to there ransack timer game full time.

  9. #9
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    Default

    To expand a bit:

    It will hurt newer players that we want to keep around, when they're penalized for running the few quests that are available to them.

    It will hurt people farming for loot or flagging.

    It will hurt people at endgame getting xp, since there's a lot less different stuff to run there.

    It seems to me the penalties will have to be dialed back a lot, and the regen upped.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  10. #10
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    Thumbs down

    Good concept that has a basic fatal flaw that developers simply still do not understand. People will not assist others on their elite streak if they get going to get xp penalties so rapidly. Players want to play a variety of content but get worthwhile xp for their time. The easiest way to get people to not window farm is to make the quests that are run so infrequently have more xp. A simple easy fix that requires no new added xp levelling mechanics, that work has already been done. Just balance it out.

    If the xp out at Restless Isles wasnt so lousy or the Threnal level progression so out of sync with the post-design Bravery Bonus mechanics, people wouldn't feel the urge to the shadow crypt. Or if the U18 Level 15 content had worthwhile xp we wouldn't farm Litany 10-12 times.

    Oh and on the subject of U18 - in case you didn't know (because you haven't sent out surveys to the best of my knowledge). Want to know how many people I know have bothered with doing the whole of U18 at level, one. How many people at Level 25, three. How many have repeated any more than one quest? ZERO. Not one person I know has bothered to do that chain even a second time at any time.

  11. #11
    Community Member macubrae's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm starting to see a theme, the new quest ransack penalties to xp, in conjunction with a
    Quote Originally Posted by ScudRuckins View Post
    new +50% base xp pots in the dojo that last for 2 1/2 days
    (assuming that will exist on live) and in conjunction with the new a$tral $hard reroll for a second chance at named loot means they're reducing the players ability to farm any one particular quest for xp in a short time without paying extra, and reducing players ability to farm xp simultaneously with farming named loot from a particular chest without paying extra.

    While this change in mechanics might make content last longer, it would seem IMHO to discourage pug grouping by making ppl wait or refuse to do quests until they can get good xp, it might also discourage some players who do not play alot of alts, and it could discourage ppl from logging in daily which might make them go play something else altogether.
    Every time mankind makes something new, improved and idiot-proof... nature comes out with a new idiot.


  12. #12
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    Default

    Crazy bad idea.

    Leave the repetition counters as they are at the moment, but just reduce the repetition counter by 10% per day.

    A 30% increment after first run on a new difficulty is just crazy.

  13. #13
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Default

    I just spilled my friggin drink as I read that.

    Anybody who "likes" this isn't even on the same planet as I am i think...

    Is it april fools or something? I don't care how "undeveloped" this is, somebody had to WRITE that garbage, and got paid for it (unless its an intern).

    Hey Devs? Instead of trying to lower the river, just raise the bridge:

    Keep current system the way it is, just let the repeat penalty expire - in its entirety in a week, much like ransack timers work right now.

    DONE!
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  14. #14
    Community Member Danemoth's Avatar
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    Default

    So let's see...

    I can run Jungles of Khyber on Elite / Hard / Normal, netting me first time bonuses on all three, + my BB bonus of 20% and my BB streak of 50% (for the Elite run), AND get the new +20% Daily Bonus on that Elite run as well.

    Then, either 6 days or 30 Daily Bonus Quests later, I can run it again on Elite and still get my +20% daily bonus on it?

    Sounds like if you start a rotation of quests, you come out ahead when you factor in the DAily Bonus coming along with this change.

    Really, this isn't a bad change, because it does let you get full value out of repeats AT A LATER TIME. It's beneficial to players with lots of alts, casual players, and those that like to experience everything the game has (like me). Frankly speaking, my TR has been running every quest ONCE on Elite and not repeating anything so it's not going to bother me, and on my alts, it certainly won't bother me there either since I play them so infrequently the ransack won't affect them.

    The only people this hurts is FTP players who don't have a large selection of quests to level, and zerging TRs who have this compulsive NEED to TR once every 7 days. And honestly, I think the latter will find some new rotation or system to benefit from these quest exp changes, once people stop knee-jerking about the change.

    Though I agree, the penalty should be reduced to 0% after 7 days, flat, regardless of how high it is (like chest Ransack)

  15. #15
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    So just to confirm, ran the same quest 6 times on elite

    1st run: Full XP as expected
    2nd run: Full XP as expected, warning about ransack timer appears
    3rd run: -30% XP
    4th run: -60% XP
    5th run: -90% XP
    6th run: zero XP

    I was wondering the the ransack would stick at 90% maximum as the description suggests. But it doesn't.

    When I first heard the announcement about the ransack timer, like everybody else I'm sure, I thought excellent, something we've asked for a long time. Excellent stuff.

    I don't remember reading that you wanted to kill farming in the process.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    The only people this hurts is FTP players who don't have a large selection of quests to level, and zerging TRs who have this compulsive NEED to TR once every 7 days. And honestly, I think the latter will find some new rotation or system to benefit from these quest exp changes, once people stop knee-jerking about the change.)
    It also hurts people who need to run stuff more than once to flag. Or capped toons running stuff for ED xp (sine there isn't a lot of quests up there).

    And as you said, most notably it hurts FTP players. You know, the ones we want to entice to join. I'm not sure smacking them with a penalty is going to endear us to them, but who knows, some of them may have... interesting... preferences.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  17. #17
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    Default

    The release notes say that the values are only placeholder values...

  18. #18
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    It also hurts people who need to run stuff more than once to flag. Or capped toons running stuff for ED xp (sine there isn't a lot of quests up there).

    And as you said, most notably it hurts FTP players. You know, the ones we want to entice to join. I'm not sure smacking them with a penalty is going to endear us to them, but who knows, some of them may have... interesting... preferences.
    Sorry but This is NOT going to hurt Newbies in any way whatsoever!

    UNLESS That 30% Penalty IGNORES Difficulty Changes!

    A F2P Newbie starts with NORMAL - Gets FULL XP
    Goes to HARD - Gets FULL XP
    Goes to ELITE - Possibly gets -30% XP! Note Possibly! Could Be FULL as First Time on Elite!

    Newbie has no need to run quest again!

    What this is going to do is STOP Vets from dragging a Newbie along on their TR Zerg Farms and getting said Newbie to 20 in a Week!



    From Lvl 1-8 there are PLENTY of F2P Quests.
    Lvl 9 Upwards there is an issue with TOO FEW F2P Quests.
    BUT
    Instead of pushing EVERY Newbie to buy Vale - Get them to Buy Sands Instead!
    Then get GH
    THEN get Vale!
    Yes Devs - Sands Needs to come down in Price!

    Oh and...Newbies will usually buy a couple of Low Level Packs anyway!
    SO...
    Back to one of my standard suggestions:

    Make 3 Barrel Cove FREE with Vet Status!
    Stop Charging People for STK - Worst Loot of ANY Low Lvl Pack - Only 4 Quests! - It's time to make this F2P!
    Also Consider making...
    Sharn
    Catacombs and/or
    Necro 1
    F2P!

  19. #19
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    It also hurts people who need to run stuff more than once to flag.
    This.

    This.

    This.

    A thousand times this.

    Please, get rid of the sigil flagging for Litany. Run each Necro 4 quest once to flag and done.

    Please, let us run Litany once from boss to boss without having to repeat it from the start every time, like Tor's dragons were pre-U17.

    Please, let us stay flagged for Stealer of Souls after delivering the gems and essences once. No reason to rerun Prey/EtK/Monastery just to get back there.

    And of course, adjust the numbers so that raids are clean after the raid timer ends. This way, people with bypasses still may suffer the XP penalty (they are probably running for loot anyway), but don't affect the others.
    Last edited by nibel; 07-14-2013 at 06:13 PM. Reason: Clarifying litany paragraph
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Sorry but This is NOT going to hurt Newbies in any way whatsoever!

    Newbie has no need to run quest again!
    Need? No. But a new player, who doesn't know the mechanics, will likely join whatever is up. And suddenly see his xp intake take a huge it after a bit.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

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