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  1. #21
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    Some players bought the Reign of Madness pack because of the No-minimum-level rings.
    Some players bought the Sharn Syndicate pack for the BtA low level items.

    Yet another "Screw the players after they've bought it" like the "accidental" Cannith Challenge XP nerfing.

    Geoff.

  2. #22
    Time Bandit & Hero SirShen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    In DDO's past, items had minimum levels because they were explicitly placed in treasure tables to generate properly on that item.

    Sometimes, mistakes were made when setting up quest arc rewards, and one item (rings, in several cases...) slipped through bugged with no minimum level.

    Core changes to how items in DDO work mean that we (the developers) no longer set item level ourselves on an item by item by entering data in tables.
    Now, for non-named and non-raid items only, the item figures out it's own level properly based on the total value of the magical effects on it.
    This means that bugs of both kinds (randomly-generated items too high in level and items that were too low in level) will fix themselves, and these bugs cannot occur again in the future.
    Hate to say it but this is going to p*ss off alot of players when this hits live, i can see the forum light up with posts like all my items levels have changed. My toon is now nude because the +2 leather armor that was a quest reward is now level 4 instead of level 0. I love also how you fix bugs like this after alot of players have the items and then have the cheek to say its the program that you have set up is to blame not the devs, SO who wrote the program?
    Also these items are bound to account is it so game breaking? I also remember a dev saying in the forums that these items we have would not change, when they were updating the rings in Reign of Madness.

  3. #23
    Community Member darthhento's Avatar
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    Are you ****ing kidding me?!? This has to be THE WORST ****ing decision you made in a long while.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    In DDO's past, items had minimum levels because they were explicitly placed in treasure tables to generate properly on that item.

    Sometimes, mistakes were made when setting up quest arc rewards, and one item (rings, in several cases...) slipped through bugged with no minimum level.

    Core changes to how items in DDO work mean that we (the developers) no longer set item level ourselves on an item by item by entering data in tables.
    Now, for non-named and non-raid items only, the item figures out it's own level properly based on the total value of the magical effects on it.
    This means that bugs of both kinds (randomly-generated items too high in level and items that were too low in level) will fix themselves, and these bugs cannot occur again in the future.
    are you claiming that previous to the expansion you manually came up with minimum levels for every individual possible random loot combo? or am i misunderstanding your reasoning

  5. #25
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    In DDO's past, items had minimum levels because they were explicitly placed in treasure tables to generate properly on that item.

    Sometimes, mistakes were made when setting up quest arc rewards, and one item (rings, in several cases...) slipped through bugged with no minimum level.

    Core changes to how items in DDO work mean that we (the developers) no longer set item level ourselves on an item by item by entering data in tables.
    Now, for non-named and non-raid items only, the item figures out it's own level properly based on the total value of the magical effects on it.
    This means that bugs of both kinds (randomly-generated items too high in level and items that were too low in level) will fix themselves, and these bugs cannot occur again in the future.
    and yet this blanket fixed still screws items.

    My precious ...... go change new stuff ..... Leave my existing acquired loot alone

    My single use no-min level haste clickie from sharne syndicate was usefull for low levels is now min level 5
    as noted in this post with screen captures...
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ow-min-level-5

    This retroactive screwover of older items makes this worthless.
    How the ..... is a single use haste clickie level 5 when pots are level 1 and the chrono goggles have soo much more at level 5.

    Even the rings from those other series.. I can see an adjustment to bring them more in line but most replace +4 stat pots which are available at level 1 as well.. these dont warent level 11 when cannith crafted versions can be done to make them level 7.

    I am annoyed that I have stockpiled various low level and non traditional levelled items over the years to have you retroactively x them over and turn them into garbage.

    I purchased extra bank space and shared bank space to accomodate these extra items. I have a lot of toons and am constantly levelling toons and it is these types of retoractive changes that ****meoff.

    I am still ****ed about my ornamental daggers which you screwed with the spell power change and never corrected to recognize that these were supposed to be usefull powerful items.

    As the loot mechanic we expect you to perform fine precision tuning from time to time, the problem is all we see is your fine tooning appears to involve a random loot generator and sludgehammer....resulting in retroactively broken loot. followed by BS excuses of dont have time to deal with it now, its old stuff..move on, we had to do this because the system needed this change(except when something is retroactvely made better then we have to upgrade it and it costs us 5 greater tokens and some obscure ritualistic dance at a random alter which may or may not work and further break your existing item).., ...or the great one of ...we are aware and will address it at some unknown future date which never comes....

    When you make these types of blanket changes with total disregard to the impact on historical items all you do is create negative karma in the community.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 07-29-2013 at 08:38 AM.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    In DDO's past, items had minimum levels because they were explicitly placed in treasure tables to generate properly on that item.

    Sometimes, mistakes were made when setting up quest arc rewards, and one item (rings, in several cases...) slipped through bugged with no minimum level.

    Core changes to how items in DDO work mean that we (the developers) no longer set item level ourselves on an item by item by entering data in tables.
    Now, for non-named and non-raid items only, the item figures out it's own level properly based on the total value of the magical effects on it.
    This means that bugs of both kinds (randomly-generated items too high in level and items that were too low in level) will fix themselves, and these bugs cannot occur again in the future.
    That is a terrible excuse. The entire tradeoff for BTA loot from Sharn, STK, Fens, etc., is that is has a lower than normal minimum level. Bumping it up to the same level as regular loot gen makes it worse than loot gen.

    These are the types of needless nerfs that Majmal claimed he was going to crack down on when he took over. Where were you on this one, Maj?

    Nerfing my rings after being told they would be nerfed is one thing. But going on and nerfing all my collected BTA gear too? That is truly infuriating! But that's not even the worst of it...

    Risia Icy Bursted weapons are getting nerfed too. I'm not sure, but this may be the last straw for me. It is unacceptable. Period. I just logged on to check with one of my mules. Check him out in the following screenshots. He's a lvl 4 pally, and on live he is holding a couple of level 4 weapons I applied icy burst kits to. The first is a +1 wounding longsword, race restricted human. Obviously it was minimum level 4, because he has it equipped. But now it's min lvl 8!!! The second weapon is a +1 keen scimitar of pure good, with icy burst added. This one is now min lvl 10!!!





    Feather_of_Sun, you just made all my icy bursted weapons garbage! I have ~200 of these weapons, which I created to span the full heroic level range for almost any style of weapon fighting for any character I might want to play any time in the future. Do you have any idea how much time and expense went into acquiring all the materials to make these?!?! I bet you don't. And clearly, by your reply, you don't seem to care either, even though it's your job to care (regardless of whether you think it is).

    Prove me wrong. Un-nerf this horribly offensive automated process, and do it before the expansion goes live. If you don't, well I don't know. I'm trying not to make any rash decisions right now, because I'm INCREDIBLY ****ED OFF at the moment. But I've been a VIP since the original pre-release of DDO back in 2006, have maintained an active subscription the entire time, and have spent a LOT more on TPs above my sub since f2p. I've pre-ordered this "expansion", and I pre-ordered the MotU exapnsion. I've been disappointed or upset by a lot of different things in that time, mildly or greatly, but this takes the cake. Feather_of_Sun, I think this change of yours may break the game for me, for good. I don't want to leave DDO, but I know I can't continue in an environment where the devs don't actually respect the accomplishments of the players.

    I'm asking you, please, don't retroactively change the minimum levels of pre-existing equipment. Please show some respect for the time, effort, and expense of established players.
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  7. #27
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The Risia Frost and Icy Burst effects no longer add to the total enhancement value of an item, so they do not affect the item's minimum level.
    So ?????

    The Risia Frost and Icy Burst are not affecting min levels?

    Why are they level increased?

    You are still the loot programmer are you not?

    Is there someone else reprogramming your code?

    You did check the code before you put it into Lamannia...
    You did look at the stuff in Lamannia to see the impact of your changes....

    What you are saying here and what I and others are seeing in Lamannia are not in sync with your statement.

    also,... why are you not showing up in the Dev tracker?..
    Last edited by JOTMON; 07-30-2013 at 09:09 AM.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
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    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    So ?????

    The Risia Frost and Icy Burst are not affecting min levels?

    Why are they level increased?

    You are still the loot programmer are you not?

    Is there someone else reprogramming your code?

    You did check the code before you put it into Lamannia...
    You did look at the stuff in Lamannia to see the impact of your changes....

    What you are saying here and what I and others are seeing in Lamannia are not in sync with your statement.

    also,... why are you not showing up in the Dev tracker?..
    Some people have said their risa items have increased others have said their's did not. Maybe the item had the wrong ML to begin with and the correction has nothing to do with risa?

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    In DDO's past, items had minimum levels because they were explicitly placed in treasure tables to generate properly on that item.

    Sometimes, mistakes were made when setting up quest arc rewards, and one item (rings, in several cases...) slipped through bugged with no minimum level.

    Core changes to how items in DDO work mean that we (the developers) no longer set item level ourselves on an item by item by entering data in tables.
    Now, for non-named and non-raid items only, the item figures out it's own level properly based on the total value of the magical effects on it.
    This means that bugs of both kinds (randomly-generated items too high in level and items that were too low in level) will fix themselves, and these bugs cannot occur again in the future.
    Excellent, so years of collecting twink gear is thrown out the window and I got myself vendor trash. Pity this was something you simply had to fix. But my arti pet still floats in the air after trying to climb ladders (since arti was released).

    And now the risia kits increase ML on items too.

    I wish there was a way for me to continue playing the DDO I like to play without adding the nonsense that is making me dislike future changes. This was poorly conceived and to think I've wasted so much time doing the risia games and such just to get scrotch kicked by these 'fixes'.

  10. #30
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley_Nicholas View Post
    - snip -
    When the very first time Risia was live you did not get *Festival Icy Burst*. Just Icy Burst/Frost. Now those items adjust themselves. So, *Festival Icy Burst* might be WAI since it is a category of weapon feature, which is not available on common lootgen tables. The old versions still got *Icy Burst* and thus are affected by the general lootgen adjustments, since it is a general weapon feature.

    And didn't old Risia upgrades (Frost to Icy Burst) have an increase in ML? While applyingg Icy Burst directly did not change the ML at all?

    Bottom line:
    Maybe old Icy Burst is not detected as event feature and is affected by the new item ML adjustments.

    Still some testings then:
    - Are weapons with *Festival Icy Burst* affected? We only see weapons with Icy Burst

    - Are weapons affected, which got more than one elemental damage affix after applying Risia recipy?
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 07-30-2013 at 01:07 PM.
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  11. #31
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    The reward items in the Sharn chain are no-ML and for that reason bound. It's *obvious* that this was the entire point.

    Even before, they were only of use for a few levels at most. If they now have ML, they become bound vendor trash.

    That's a shame.

    I'm confused about the conflicting reports on the Risia-treated weapons, of which I have a few. The only useful thing that comes out of Risia right now is the ability to put icy burst on items; if you're going to nerf that, might as well delete the Risia code. If it is only an issue with older items, they should be grandfathered in.

    So should the Madness items with ML 0. I joined too late to get any and am quite jealous of those who have them but I think they should keep them.

  12. #32
    Community Member Mephisto-Helix's Avatar
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    I have to still attempt to climb a ladder 4 or 5 times but hey, we have time to shnaai over players with retroactive loot changes. Haha, you bought such and such a pack for the items and now we can laugh at you as we change the ML of it all.

    Feather's way or the highway is how it seems to be over at Turbine these days .......

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    The Risia Frost and Icy Burst are not affecting min levels?

    Why are they level increased?
    None of mine increased; they are all the same ML as expected. Here's a screenshot of my personal ultimate TR twink weapon that I pass around to each TR life, still ML2 as it always was:



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us

  14. #34
    Hero DanteEnFuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    In DDO's past, items had minimum levels because they were explicitly placed in treasure tables to generate properly on that item.

    Sometimes, mistakes were made when setting up quest arc rewards, and one item (rings, in several cases...) slipped through bugged with no minimum level.

    Core changes to how items in DDO work mean that we (the developers) no longer set item level ourselves on an item by item by entering data in tables.
    Now, for non-named and non-raid items only, the item figures out it's own level properly based on the total value of the magical effects on it.
    This means that bugs of both kinds (randomly-generated items too high in level and items that were too low in level) will fix themselves, and these bugs cannot occur again in the future.
    In grinding out Reign of Madness rings, pre-change, some people passed up on tons of loot that would be much, much better than fragile easily broken no ML rings. This change, if applied retroactively, will invalidate many hard earned "convenience" items many TRs utilize. I've been a fan of yours (which from the posts here and on other forums seems to be an unpopular position these days), but pushing retro changes makes me go kind of Cupcakes... With the upcoming changes to XP decay, retro changes may kill my desire to TR, and thus the game, and thus the stupid amount of money I spend on this game.
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  15. #35
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    There does need to be an exemption for these rings, if only to avoid the inevitable mass angry posts that are coming.

    After all the work on the xpax and the time in beta - the enhancements etc - let's not detract from it all with this.

    Kindly exempt the rings. Shouldn't be a big deal - and since the number are fixed (at least not growing - ever shrinking)....

  16. #36
    Time Bandit & Hero SirShen's Avatar
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    So is this the right level?


  17. #37
    Time Bandit & Hero SirShen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    None of mine increased; they are all the same ML as expected. Here's a screenshot of my personal ultimate TR twink weapon that I pass around to each TR life, still ML2 as it always was:



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
    But those that did it before the update on Risia items are getting an increase on there items. I have lots that were level 2 but are now level 5 and up depending on the item. If the item has fesival before burst/cold they will not get an increse but those that have the old burst/cold will get an item increase.

  18. #38
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    It may be that they don't have any way of differentiating between lootgen icy burst and the "non-Festival" icy burst that Risia put on items at first.

    Of course, that doesn't make this any less awful for those who have such items.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirShen View Post
    So is this the right level?

    Yep, that is indeed the right level. At least, it's the same level it would be if you disjuncted it and crafted +1 charisma onto it. Sad, isn't it? Yellow augment slots add 4 ML.

  20. #40
    Time Bandit & Hero SirShen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Yep, that is indeed the right level. At least, it's the same level it would be if you disjuncted it and crafted +1 charisma onto it. Sad, isn't it? Yellow augment slots add 4 ML.
    This is not crafted its loot gen. IF so this is a joke. I wont be using augments unless i craft the item. This use to be level 3 as loot gen.

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