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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Yeah for comparing apples to oranges. So, have you tried to farm an eRoSS?

    You can still farm Random gen loot if you like random effects.
    Of course I have tried farming an ERoSS, in fact I have seen the shard drop twice.
    I wouldn't call it comparing apples to oranges, I would call it giving an example of real grind.
    With these ready made epic items now the grind to acquire them is not nearly comparable to pre MotU grind to build Epic items.
    A little grind in an MMO is not a bad thing.

    And I will reiterate the more "versions" of the items that are available the more classes/builds that can make use of the "right combinations'.

    Imagine if Blue Helms only came in Charisma Versions....

    Lets look at the Stolen Necklace for example:

    EE: Cha 10 + Random Effect + Yellow slot.

    Now lets set that item in stone as: Cha 10 + Natural Armor 9 + Yellow Slot. I believe this is a realistic combo. Now this is decent for a paladin or a couple of other builds but is it something you want on your Bard or your Sorceror?
    Or would you prefer to pull one with Cha 10 + Wizadry + slot or Cha 10 + Spell Pen + slot or Cha 10 + Evo Focus + slot or Cha 10 + Resistance 8 ( or whatever the level is) + slot?
    The you can flip it around and see if the Cha 10 + spell pen or evo focus is useful for a paladin bard or a UMD class that could have made use of the natural armor or the resistance?

    So instead of random effects you would prefer what exactly??? More items? So we get one Cha 10 + effect + slot that is only useful for a small group of people?
    The we get another item that is only useful to another set of people, but it doesn't have that base Cha 10 that could be so useful to so many builds?

    I really think that once we see all of the items, sure they may have random effects but we will see that they offer alot more gear choices than having a set of items that are set in stone, narrowing the possible focus of those items.
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  2. #62
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterHops View Post
    So instead of random effects you would prefer what exactly??? More items? So we get one Cha 10 + effect + slot that is only useful for a small group of people?
    The we get another item that is only useful to another set of people, but it doesn't have that base Cha 10 that could be so useful to so many builds?
    Because this didn't work out well in the past 7 years, right?

    Oh wait, it did. Noone EVER complained. Noone EVER asked for this. Noone EVER wanted this.

    Go back in time, to MotU beta. We had Raid items with Random effects on them and what happened? Rage, rage and more rage. We've had so many people raging out that it led them to change the items and make them PROPER NAMED ITEMS.

    There are proofs all over the forum and the game that players NEVER LIKED RANDOM EFFECTS ON NAMED ITEMS.

    Once again, Random effects IS for RANDOM GENERATED LOOT. HENCE THEIR NAME.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Because this didn't work out well in the past 7 years, right?

    Oh wait, it did. Noone EVER complained. Noone EVER asked for this. Noone EVER wanted this.

    Go back in time, to MotU beta. We had Raid items with Random effects on them and what happened? Rage, rage and more rage. We've had so many people raging out that it led them to change the items and make them PROPER NAMED ITEMS.

    There are proofs all over the forum and the game that players NEVER LIKED RANDOM EFFECTS ON NAMED ITEMS.

    Once again, Random effects IS for RANDOM GENERATED LOOT. HENCE THEIR NAME.
    Like I said earlier in the thread, random effects on named loot is coming wether you like it or not.
    I'm not against this mechanic as long as the number of effects is kept to a small set of effects that are useful. (Effects being from a list of 5 - 10 different effects)
    Is this truly Random? I don't believe so. You can keep plugging it as random if you like....

    Sure the items need work, eg. Slots on alot of the named items, Buffing the base damage/crit profiles of the weapons, a full rework of the armors etc. if they can fix these issues and give us some randomness to some of the effects but from a small pool of useful effects then I will be happy.
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  4. #64
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterHops View Post
    Of course I have tried farming an ERoSS, in fact I have seen the shard drop twice.
    I wouldn't call it comparing apples to oranges, I would call it giving an example of real grind.
    With these ready made epic items now the grind to acquire them is not nearly comparable to pre MotU grind to build Epic items.
    A little grind in an MMO is not a bad thing.

    And I will reiterate the more "versions" of the items that are available the more classes/builds that can make use of the "right combinations'.

    Imagine if Blue Helms only came in Charisma Versions....

    Lets look at the Stolen Necklace for example:

    EE: Cha 10 + Random Effect + Yellow slot.

    Now lets set that item in stone as: Cha 10 + Natural Armor 9 + Yellow Slot. I believe this is a realistic combo. Now this is decent for a paladin or a couple of other builds but is it something you want on your Bard or your Sorceror?
    Or would you prefer to pull one with Cha 10 + Wizadry + slot or Cha 10 + Spell Pen + slot or Cha 10 + Evo Focus + slot or Cha 10 + Resistance 8 ( or whatever the level is) + slot?
    The you can flip it around and see if the Cha 10 + spell pen or evo focus is useful for a paladin bard or a UMD class that could have made use of the natural armor or the resistance?

    So instead of random effects you would prefer what exactly??? More items? So we get one Cha 10 + effect + slot that is only useful for a small group of people?
    The we get another item that is only useful to another set of people, but it doesn't have that base Cha 10 that could be so useful to so many builds?

    I really think that once we see all of the items, sure they may have random effects but we will see that they offer alot more gear choices than having a set of items that are set in stone, narrowing the possible focus of those items.
    I get what you're saying but the same thing could have been accomplished in a much more player friendly fashion. What if the same item looked like this:

    Charisma 10 + Yellow Slot + Gold Slot

    The Gold Slot holds a new set of named augments that are the exact same as the random effects so you could get a Gold Augment of Natural Armor 9 that drops perhaps in the explorer zone or even in the same chest as the item itself. You get the same set of effects, but the randomness is removed from the item and control is given to the players. You can freely trade these new augments as I'd make them unbound and the items remain BtCoE. If your gearset needs to be swapped at a later date, you may only need to upgrade one or both augments to make it work and if the item itself becomes outdated, you can toolbox out the gold augment to use at a later time on something else. The key element here is options over randomness. I feel players would really have preferred it if it looked like this instead.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I get what you're saying but the same thing could have been accomplished in a much more player friendly fashion. What if the same item looked like this:

    Charisma 10 + Yellow Slot + Gold Slot

    The Gold Slot holds a new set of named augments that are the exact same as the random effects so you could get a Gold Augment of Natural Armor 9 that drops perhaps in the explorer zone or even in the same chest as the item itself. You get the same set of effects, but the randomness is removed from the item and control is given to the players. You can freely trade these new augments as I'd make them unbound and the items remain BtCoE. If your gearset needs to be swapped at a later date, you may only need to upgrade one or both augments to make it work and if the item itself becomes outdated, you can toolbox out the gold augment to use at a later time on something else. The key element here is options over randomness. I feel players would really have preferred it if it looked like this instead.
    I do like the idea of this, in respect to it would the Orange Slot Augments drop from the new expansion only?
    I would be happy if that was the case, as it would allow for more replay of the content...
    Something that means we have more options for gearing is preferable to me than having locked in items that become items that fit a certain niche build.
    I think that what you have suggested is actually a great idea, I wonder if they could implement something like that?
    There could also be ultra rare gold augments only lootable on EE difficulties.
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  6. #66
    Community Member Jeremiah179's Avatar
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    I like Gold Augment for these new random effects.

    It would be cool if you could only get the augments in that final chest or by removing them out of an existing item...

    It would be flexible, sell jeweler kits, create trade on the AS exchange I imagine...

    Seems like a win-win solution.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah179 View Post
    I like Gold Augment for these new random effects.

    It would be cool if you could only get the augments in that final chest or by removing them out of an existing item...

    It would be flexible, sell jeweler kits, create trade on the AS exchange I imagine...

    Seems like a win-win solution.
    Yeah so the items could come pre-slotted with a gold augment, or you could acquire additional augments from other expansion end chests. (I think the gold augments should be expansion wide, with rarer versions being dropped on higher difficulties)
    That works for me.
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  8. #68
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterHops View Post
    Like I said earlier in the thread, random effects on named loot is coming wether you like it or not.
    I'm not against this mechanic as long as the number of effects is kept to a small set of effects that are useful. (Effects being from a list of 5 - 10 different effects)
    Is this truly Random? I don't believe so. You can keep plugging it as random if you like....

    Sure the items need work, eg. Slots on alot of the named items, Buffing the base damage/crit profiles of the weapons, a full rework of the armors etc. if they can fix these issues and give us some randomness to some of the effects but from a small pool of useful effects then I will be happy.
    Really? And who are you to say that? Last time they put Random effects on named items (MotU raid, again) they changed them before live.

    So yeah again, farm random gen loot if you like Random effects.
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  9. #69
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    Gold Augments?

    It could be quite good if you can put in this slot Yellow, Colorless, and Red Augments
    A series of augments that can be put only on special named slot has his disvantages.
    A series of slots that can have only NAMED augments is worst.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I get what you're saying but the same thing could have been accomplished in a much more player friendly fashion. What if the same item looked like this:

    Charisma 10 + Yellow Slot + Gold Slot

    The Gold Slot holds a new set of named augments that are the exact same as the random effects so you could get a Gold Augment of Natural Armor 9 that drops perhaps in the explorer zone or even in the same chest as the item itself. You get the same set of effects, but the randomness is removed from the item and control is given to the players. You can freely trade these new augments as I'd make them unbound and the items remain BtCoE. If your gearset needs to be swapped at a later date, you may only need to upgrade one or both augments to make it work and if the item itself becomes outdated, you can toolbox out the gold augment to use at a later time on something else. The key element here is options over randomness. I feel players would really have preferred it if it looked like this instead.
    To tell the truth, I was thinking making the items the other way around. First, I'd make each item have two versions: a melee based version and a caster based version. The items then would look like this:

    Empty Clear Slot + Static effect + Limited Random effect + Yellow Slot

    The Static effect and random effects would always compliment each other. So on the Melee version, the static effect and random effect would be effects that help melees, whether to boost damage or mitigate damage; on the Caster version, the effects would boost caster power, damage or mitigate damage.

    The Yellow slot would be there because the Yellow Slot is already on the item, so there's no reason to remove it.

    So why the Empty Clear Slot? Well, this is an Expansion and it should contain something special in it...and this Expansion is sorely lacking something special it. Why not have something really special in the Stormhorns portion of the pack as an reward? On Epic Normal, there's a chance that a +8 Stat Augment can drop; on Epic Hard, there's a chance that a +9 Stat Augment can drop; on Epic Elite, there's a chance that a +10 Stat Augment can drop. This would make the expansion worth buying for players, especially if the expansion was the only place to get these augments.

    It also would make the items above customizable for the player to a degree. No longer will the player have to find both the Stat that they want and the random effect to work with his or her character. No more of this BS about I like the effects on this caster item, but the +10 Int doesn't work with my Sorc, FvS or Cleric. Also, it would allow melee items to have Stats that perhaps not all melees want. A melee item with a +10 Cha because the character is a paladin. A melee item with a +10 Con because the character is a tank. Etc...

    This would give players more freedom and ways to build their character the way they want. Especially since it looks like the power of the toons in the upper Epic levels need to rely more on items and less on feats, class, prestiges to boost their abilities or mitigate damage.

  11. #71
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    To tell the truth, I was thinking making the items the other way around. First, I'd make each item have two versions: a melee based version and a caster based version. The items then would look like this:

    Empty Clear Slot + Static effect + Limited Random effect + Yellow Slot
    This is what's wrong with this suggestion: we need only 1 of this item. Just on different kind of weapons/Item. One dagger, one DAxe, one Scepter, one neck. We don't need every single item to work this way with Random effects and everyone is happy.

    You guys have your "named random item" and the rest of us will enjoy the other 10 proper Named Items.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    This is what's wrong with this suggestion: we need only 1 of this item. Just on different kind of weapons/Item. One dagger, one DAxe, one Scepter, one neck. We don't need every single item to work this way with Random effects and everyone is happy.

    You guys have your "named random item" and the rest of us will enjoy the other 10 proper Named Items.
    You aren't going to enjoy the other "10 proper Named Items" if the don't fit your class/build/gear set....
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  13. #73
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterHops View Post
    You aren't going to enjoy the other "10 proper Named Items" if the don't fit your class/build/gear set....
    No, but 1/2 or even 3 out 10 yes. It's worked for 7 years. It can work for another 10 years. Why all of a sudden it shouldn't?
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  14. #74
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Lol, and after 17 years you could say the same... that is not an argument. And regarding the *7 years* it is not all over sudden.

    DDO has to evolve. It is a tough business. MMOs are thrown on the market half done to earn money as early as possible in order to maybe last 3 years. 3 years of earning money, then either it is WoW status or the next seller is ready for launch.

    Thinking about it, where is the difference between random effects on named items or designing named items with one of each random effect? Actually nothing, but again, mathmatics may show a difference, I feel like there is no difference (bad, I know). The grind for the best combination according to each character seems the same. So much for giving a little credit to the dev.s.

    But in general, the view of too much randomness in endgame has changed. Did they forget that Sands of Menechtarum got too many items? And out of them 3 became no-brainers, else garbage?

    The random effects on Eveningstar chain loot combined with very very low droprates (subject to personal impression, not confirmed but somehow the droprate of those rings/Planar Foci seemed to be lowered after one patch) are not something I like. I gave up hunting the Focus I needed and bought it from the ah. Dev.s, you won there.

    Instead, Gianthold Tor should be the very example of how to design reasonable droprate combined with balanced challenge of the overall quest subjectives.

    So, if the droprates of those new items are as low as House X seals/Planar Foci, then narrow down the possible combination and number of random effects or simply don't do them.

    Another reason, why I don't like ranom effected named loot in DDO: in Diablo you had those item categories. With lvl. 25 you already implemented *yellow* gear. New pre- und suffixes with powerful combinations on general items, which then became viable or even better than raidloot. Raidloot could be seen as golden items. Powerful static effects.

    I want raidloot to stay golden instead of becoming yellow and a slot-machine thingy.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 07-17-2013 at 08:11 AM.
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  15. #75
    Community Member decease's Avatar
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    i doubt anyone would love it.. they should narrow down only to those useful ones..
    DDO have betray it's lineage, it is no longer any true to DND.. which Is why am gone.. for good..

  16. #76
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    You know what also had randon named items?

    Reavers Refuge's Dragontouched Armors.

    Guess what was a huge mess when it was cap, so much that thex removed the random component in the end to find at least some few who would run it.
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctus View Post
    You know what also had randon named items?

    Reavers Refuge's Dragontouched Armors.

    Guess what was a huge mess when it was cap, so much that thex removed the random component in the end to find at least some few who would run it.
    Dragontouch armor was one of the worst systems in the game. You couldn't even see what the rune you were applying did. At least they changed it so you could tell if what you were applying was something you actually wanted. But they made the change too late. By the time they did it, there were good alternative armors available. And since the runes are BTC the system is still pretty worthless.

    Anyway... I love the slot idea for the named items. Let the player choose the extra ability. Too bad good ideas go to the forums to die.

  18. #78
    Community Member Certon's Avatar
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    It's a strange complaint that random effects make it harder to build an optimal equipment configuration. All you need to do is plan your equipment based upon the item without taking into consideration at all the random effect.

  19. #79
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Certon View Post
    It's a strange complaint that random effects make it harder to build an optimal equipment configuration. All you need to do is plan your equipment based upon the item without taking into consideration at all the random effect.
    Please read this reply again? Now delete it. The most non-sense reply I've ever seen.

    Planning a build on Random loot/effects. Sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Certon View Post
    It's a strange complaint that random effects make it harder to build an optimal equipment configuration. All you need to do is plan your equipment based upon the item without taking into consideration at all the random effect.
    If the random effect is really secondary (aka Hide of the Goristro if you don't use Tactical Feats) you can do it.
    If the random effect is very important, you can't do it.

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