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  1. #41
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterHops View Post
    I'm on the fence about it.
    ONE random effect on ONE/TWO named item FROM THE WHOLE EXPANSION's loot could be accepted by everyone.

    EVERY Named item with AT LEAST ONE OR MORE random effects? There is no way in hell.


    Also, MotU randomness and eGH randomness is just stats. Only the Dun'robar rings have stats AND the +10 tactic. ONE ITEM out of the whole expansion.

    This is not acceptable, it never was and never will be.
    Last edited by Wizza; 07-15-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    ONE random effect on ONE/TWO named item FROM THE WHOLE EXPANSION's loot could be accepted by everyone.

    EVERY Named item with AT LEAST ONE OR MORE random effects? There is no way in hell.


    Also, MotU randomness and eGH randomness is just stats. Only the Dun'robar rings have stats AND the +10 tactic. ONE ITEM out of the whole expansion.

    This is not acceptable, it never was and never will be.
    I agree that on some of the stuff its not acceptable, like I said I'm on the fence.
    The weapons look like junk, but thats not about the randomness of the item but more about the die damage and crit profiles.

    We will just wait and see, I guess its all about how many different items you want from the expansion, do I want a few items that are set in stone from each quest? Those few items that don't fit any of my builds?
    Or do I want the same number of items but at least there being a chance that the item could fit one of my builds therefore making it worthwhile to chase.

    How big is the random set of parameters?
    This is the real question that needs answering.
    Is it pulled from 100 different effects or is it pulled from 5 or 10 different effects? This is what will make or break the items in my eyes.

    If the randomness of the items is pulled from a small set of effects that are useful dependent on build and gear set then I can see it being a positive, locking the items effects and not making them useful to many builds isn't necessarily a positive, allowing some randomness to the items at least will allow for the right set of random effects to be useful to the right build isn't necessarily a negative.

    So maybe we should be petitioning the Devs to ensure they keep the size of the random tables relatively small and extremely useful, instead of just a straight out "NO", because I'm fairly sure we are going to be seeing named items with random effects post update....
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  3. #43
    Community Member Dhalgren's Avatar
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    As far as I'm concerned the whole point of named items is that they are not random.

    This much randomness in named loot means that the items are no longer special and are now essentially random lootgen which happens to have a name.

    This just smacks of lazy design. I am not a fan.
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  4. #44
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalgren View Post
    As far as I'm concerned the whole point of named items is that they are not random.

    This much randomness in named loot means that the items are no longer special and are now essentially random lootgen which happens to have a name.

    This just smacks of lazy design. I am not a fan.
    This

  5. #45
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    OP I do not see much difference between item with guaranteed effect that has a 5% drop rate and item that has a guaranteed drop rate with a 5% random effect (one of which I desire) and in fact prefer option 2 to option 1 because even if I do not get the exact random effect I want I may still get one that I at least find decent. I am a little bit more concerned about whether something is bound to character or tradeable. This loot should all be tradeable in my opinion.

    To echo a comment I made in another thread - the biggest concern for me with this loot is the lack of it as in how much time is their to farm this. I could come out with a build which uses a dwarven war axe, daggers, charisma necklace, that has trap skills and in certain situation tanks in handwraps or I could make one of the 1000s of builds which use none of that gear. Double the named items Mr. Loot Designer.
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  6. #46
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    While I like the flexibility of the "Limited" random effects on items such as the Dragonscale helms, I do agree that generally randomness on a "Named" item is not "popular". Why the randomness of the Helms is not as much of a pain comes down to the fact that they are still limited as well as not bound until equipped, making this easy to trade with someone else.

    Raid items are generally bound on Equip and rare so it is hard to give up an item even if it is only 80% useful but then becomes worthless upon getting the item set as you want.

    -----------
    As a note I don't consider Cormyrian weapons/armor/robes/etc. "Named" items. I actually classify them to be Random Loot Generated. While they are not as useful to those that have "Farmed" other named items or have crafted using the various systems. They can be useful for newer players that are not as well geared.

    I personally crafted 4 such weapons from the 24th level to Fill a need on three characters. Of the 4, I kept 3 and returned 1 for the ingredients. Compared to "Named" loot they are not desirable. But they can be better than some random gen loot.

    -------------
    I'm against "Named Raid" Loot Random effects

    I'm ok with "Named Quest" Loot having limited list of Random Effects (Should be limited to only one random effect and a similar short list like the Dragon helms), but I would prefer Augment Slots and Crafting options over Random Effects as this would allow the player the ability to "Customize" the item.

  7. #47
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    OP I do not see much difference between item with guaranteed effect that has a 5% drop rate and item that has a guaranteed drop rate with a 5% random effect (one of which I desire) and in fact prefer option 2 to option 1 because even if I do not get the exact random effect I want I may still get one that I at least find decent. I am a little bit more concerned about whether something is bound to character or tradeable. This loot should all be tradeable in my opinion.
    Lol, this made me laugh.

    I'll just say this: have you tried to farm a Dun'robar ring? This new system will be like farming Dun'robar rings, just much worse and for every other piece of your equip probably or just half of them.

    Also: guaranteed drop rate? You think Developer are going to put a 100% of a named item to drop? Keep dreaming right there. This not only will have the same 5% drop rate that you said you hate, but it will also have a chance of 5% to drop the right combination of effects on it. Good luck farming that.
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  8. #48
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    To give some credit, I am satisfied with the droprates of GH Tor named items. The droprates of Dun'Robar on the other hand is frustrating ta best. Then again, when new content is run, the overall chance for specific named items may be higher.

    Nobody runs schindylblubb any more. I gave up on Dun'Robar and Avithoul.
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  9. #49
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Lol, this made me laugh.

    I'll just say this: have you tried to farm a Dun'robar ring? This new system will be like farming Dun'robar rings, just much worse and for every other piece of your equip probably or just half of them.

    Also: guaranteed drop rate? You think Developer are going to put a 100% of a named item to drop? Keep dreaming right there. This not only will have the same 5% drop rate that you said you hate, but it will also have a chance of 5% to drop the right combination of effects on it. Good luck farming that.
    Well that is the question is it not. Just how much different will the drop rates for these items be when compared to the items that do not operate under this system. Lammania never reveals the accurate drop rates and the devs rarely comment on the drop rates. My guess is this gear will have substantially greater drop rates then the typical drop rates on live. That is what the OP should advocate for is far greater drop rates on live. The devs flip a switch and everything is different.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Lol, this made me laugh.

    I'll just say this: have you tried to farm a Dun'robar ring? This new system will be like farming Dun'robar rings, just much worse and for every other piece of your equip probably or just half of them.

    Also: guaranteed drop rate? You think Developer are going to put a 100% of a named item to drop? Keep dreaming right there. This not only will have the same 5% drop rate that you said you hate, but it will also have a chance of 5% to drop the right combination of effects on it. Good luck farming that.
    I have farmed several Dun'robar Rings.....
    I have a question for you have you ever tried farming for all the pieces for an Epic Thornlord?
    Farming for Dun'robar Rings is not nearly the grind you suggest it is.......

    Like I have mentioned, I would rather see items that have decent Base Effects, that are desirable, and decent random effects that dependent on the effect make the item of value to different classes/builds, than the item effects being locked and being useful to a very narrow group of classes/builds.
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  11. #51
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterHops View Post
    I have farmed several Dun'robar Rings.....
    I have a question for you have you ever tried farming for all the pieces for an Epic Thornlord?
    Farming for Dun'robar Rings is not nearly the grind you suggest it is.......

    Like I have mentioned, I would rather see items that have decent Base Effects, that are desirable, and decent random effects that dependent on the effect make the item of value to different classes/builds, than the item effects being locked and being useful to a very narrow group of classes/builds.
    Yeah for comparing apples to oranges. So, have you tried to farm an eRoSS?

    You can still farm Random gen loot if you like random effects.

    Well that is the question is it not. Just how much different will the drop rates for these items be when compared to the items that do not operate under this system. Lammania never reveals the accurate drop rates and the devs rarely comment on the drop rates. My guess is this gear will have substantially greater drop rates then the typical drop rates on live. That is what the OP should advocate for is far greater drop rates on live. The devs flip a switch and everything is different.
    It does not matter. Even if the drop rate was 20%, you would still grind the hell out of it to find the super uber combination with random effects. But it's not happening anyway.

    Someone said earlier in the thread that they want repeatibility. With higher drop rates, people would have their gear within a week. Just not happening.
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  12. #52
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    Assuming correct balancing of drop rates, which might take an update or two: Not a huge difference in my opinion.

    • Live: Very low chance of getting a very powerful (named) item, very high chance of not getting anything at all
    • Beta: Very low chance of getting a very powerful (named+desirable effect) item, decent chance of getting a decent item (named+useless effect), low chance of not getting anything at all


    You will just be collecting and swapping gear more often. It will probably take the same amount of grinding to get a very good setup and probably more grinding to get a perfect setup. Which gives every power gamer something to work on. And casual gamers will have a better sense of progression.

    By the way, this is how named items work in Diablo 3. A game that is centered around making people play through the same content over and over and getting addicted to it.

  13. #53
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crobi View Post
    By the way, this is how named items work in Diablo 3. A game that is centered around making people play through the same content over and over and getting addicted to it.
    Good. Keep this mechanic to D3 or go back to playing that game if you like lottery.

    Named items here have never worked this way and never should in future. This is why we have Random generated loot.
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  14. #54
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    It's downright sadistic on the devs part and masochist on the players part with these new draconian XP penalities.
    Strange, I'm not turned on by the idea of grinding for the loot... In fact, I'm turned off from the idea all together!

    GH helms were okay - they had specific options for the random effect, all of which were useful and made sense with the item. (mostly)
    If you actually give me an undead guard Stolen Necklace, you can expect complete and utter nerd rage on the forums - because that's stupid.
    Don't do it.

    And if I've gotten it wrong, and the "random effect" is specific for each item, and relevant, I'll apologise - hell, I'll even buy some TP's.

  15. #55
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    I'm not a big fan of the idea, however, due to items like the GH helms, I'm not going to get too worked up about it until I see how it works. If it works along similar lines, then it's not a bad concept.

  16. #56
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashlayna View Post
    I'm not a big fan of the idea, however, due to items like the GH helms, I'm not going to get too worked up about it until I see how it works. If it works along similar lines, then it's not a bad concept.
    Not if it's applied to EVERY named item of the expansion. A couple of them, sure.
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  17. #57
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    The mechanic is stupid. Just curious: do you grind ES challenges to have the uber combination of stats? Please don't answer yes, I know it would be a lie
    If I could get groups to do so, I would in limited fashion, honestly.

    Limited being there are certain types of weapons I think could be benifical per my characters play styles. Typically throwers.

    Two things I noticed missing from the op.
    1. Weapon and armor stats of said named items. How do they compare to others of the same level?
    2. How often did they drop?

  18. #58
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Not if it's applied to EVERY named item of the expansion. A couple of them, sure.
    Again, I think it depends a lot on how it's applied, and what the random effects are. It could very well be exactly like the GH helms, which wouldn't be bad, even if it meant having to, if allowed, trade them around to get the one you want. Like I said, not a big fan, but until I see how it works exactly, I'm not going to get to worked up over it.

  19. #59
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    If I could get groups to do so, I would in limited fashion, honestly.

    Limited being there are certain types of weapons I think could be benifical per my characters play styles. Typically throwers.

    Two things I noticed missing from the op.
    1. Weapon and armor stats of said named items. How do they compare to others of the same level?
    2. How often did they drop?
    The screenshots can be seen in the threads of the "Items" section.

    I have no intention to run EE quests solo 100 times just to find out their drop rate. I'm even more discouraged knowing that they will have random effects on them.
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  20. #60
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashlayna View Post
    Again, I think it depends a lot on how it's applied, and what the random effects are. It could very well be exactly like the GH helms, which wouldn't be bad, even if it meant having to, if allowed, trade them around to get the one you want. Like I said, not a big fan, but until I see how it works exactly, I'm not going to get to worked up over it.
    Let's pretend for a second that they are like eGH helms. You would need to farm 4+ of those items with the right combination of effects on them. It's just too tedious and too "lottery-style".

    Now, if I had to farm 3 properly NAMED ITEMS and 1 of these Random efects - Named items, I could get along with that.
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