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  1. #1
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Default Won't play Iconics without TR, explained

    Iconics will barely net you any cash until you allow the option to TR into, and out of them, and here is why:

    You say you want players to focus on the Iconic experience before offering TR options for them, but how is that possible if people won't play them? This is allready proven live, and will only worsen upon expansion release when the few playing an Iconic return to their higher level toons. I WANT to play Iconics, but I am not going to lose all of my gear and Tomes to do so.


    The reason being:
    No iconic TR means i can't use the character i have spent 6 years collecting gear etc. on to play. Considering how LONG it took me to farm all that gear, tomes, etc. why on earth do you think players will want to start fresh? Wasn't the whole point of TR to allow players to play a different class without losing all of their hard earned items?


    Seriously rethink your current position on no TR Iconics at launch. You made a mistake in coming to that decision, its ok to admit that.
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    Just a note from the other side, there are people who will play them. Not having to mess with tring yet another toon is a draw to me, not a drawback. Your post implies no one will play them, which is simply not true. I know several people tired of the tr trains also. I think you are 100% correct that they will be played in far greater numbers when the tr option is available, but there is an audience for them as they are that shouldn't be entirely discounted either.
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  3. #3

    Default /em mutters to himself

    They are planning to let these TR and LR etc etc in the future sadly for you I'm too well I don't know but I'm not going to search-fu it for you.

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  4. #4
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    Just a note from the other side, there are people who will play them. Not having to mess with tring yet another toon is a draw to me, not a drawback. Your post implies no one will play them, which is simply not true. I know several people tired of the tr trains also. I think you are 100% correct that they will be played in far greater numbers when the tr option is available, but there is an audience for them as they are that shouldn't be entirely discounted either.
    Of course there will always be someone who does something, but creating money making content that entices 5% of the player base while ignoring the 95% is not the best way to go about it. Like I said, I WANT to play Iconics. Allowing them to TR or to TR into them would have no effect on you or the few you know who currently play them.
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    Although again you assume there are only a few. I see bladeforged as they are now all over my server, is my point. People ARE playing them already. Not just a few, and most of them I don't know. This will continue for the others, people are dying to try new things. And like the artificers and druids that had tr lockouts, it's not really a big deterrant. They will be lifted and those that want to tr train can do so to their hearts content.
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  6. #6
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrtigo View Post
    They are planning to let these TR and LR etc etc in the future sadly for you I'm too well I don't know but I'm not going to search-fu it for you.

    Bowserkoopa
    My search-fu is for me not you
    Mr mutters the issue was allowing them to TR and LR at launch, not in the nigh distant future. If you want to wait around for things the Devs are "going to add" then feel free to keep waiting for each race to get access to a racial PrE like elves/half elves. It's going on 3.5 YEARS with these two races having the only racial PrE, and considering they aren't adding them in the Expansion expect a full 5 YEARS before it happens.


    I don't know about you, but I don't put to much stake in the turn around time in things Devs claim they are working on. 3.5 years is an awfully long time.
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  7. #7
    Community Member azrael4h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    And like the artificers and druids that had tr lockouts, it's not really a big deterrant. They will be lifted and those that want to tr train can do so to their hearts content.
    Druids and Arties did not have TR lockouts. They had LR lockouts to prevent people from LRing an existing character into one over a course of a few hearts (depending on level). You could TR into one on day one of their availability to you. I had a guildy who did just that, TR into an Artificer when she first bought it.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Daine's Avatar
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    For the large player base that don't suffer from ALT-itis, iconics at level 15 are a big drawcard. One of my toons is in a permagroup where none of the other players have ever TR'ed a single toon even though they've been playing DDO for years. Not everyone is charging forward for multi-toon completionist! Of course those friends of mine who don't "need" to be able to immediately TR into an iconic also don't care if it gets enabled at launch or later.

    I understand that with the normal new class releases there's a purposeful Ressurection delay to force people to learn the class as a "newb". Marketing standards are driving the decision I guess. Give everyone the same base level to begin from to promote discussion and and a sense of shared experience and you add to the sense of community thus ensuring engagement, continued loyalty and income stream.

    This sort of window of opportunity is also a rare moment for new players to enter DDO and for a short while feel they stand on a level playing field with the veterans, I hope they take the opportunity to market it as such and not squander it; otherwise I don't see the benefit of the TR delay outweighing the upset caused to current loyal players who want it all now.

  9. #9

    Default Well then...

    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    Mr mutters the issue was allowing them to TR and LR at launch, not in the nigh distant future. If you want to wait around for things the Devs are "going to add" then feel free to keep waiting for each race to get access to a racial PrE like elves/half elves. It's going on 3.5 YEARS with these two races having the only racial PrE, and considering they aren't adding them in the Expansion expect a full 5 YEARS before it happens.


    I don't know about you, but I don't put to much stake in the turn around time in things Devs claim they are working on. 3.5 years is an awfully long time.
    Sure you can't do it NAW, but it will be done, monks were broken for I can't even count how long, druids animal forms still seem like a drawback and bardchers still are terrible. That being said I believe the TR for Iconics will come soon enough and if it doesn't well....I suppose I'll be wrong and have to come up with a clever way to spin-off the fact that I was wro..wro...not entirely correct.

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    Frankly, you don't want to TR out of a bladeforged. The system on live is so much better than the **** you end up going through in Lam that the only bladeforged worth playing are the ones you can currently play.

  11. #11
    Community Member LilyOphelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    ...the issue was allowing them to TR and LR at launch, not in the nigh distant future.
    Well, there's probably only so much development time. They can't do what you're asking for in addition to everything they're already doing atm. They have said that Iconic TR is a priority, and will probably be coming out with the Epic TR revamp which is 1-2 updates away (ETA is end of the year).

    You can choose to either play one now, without TR, or wait until TR is available. You can also choose to lament and complain and threaten, but it's not likely to get you anywhere and it probably won't make you very happy.
    Last edited by LilyOphelia; 07-17-2013 at 06:34 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    Of course there will always be someone who does something, but creating money making content that entices 5% of the player base while ignoring the 95% is not the best way to go about it. Like I said, I WANT to play Iconics. Allowing them to TR or to TR into them would have no effect on you or the few you know who currently play them.
    dude dont even start to think u know the % of player who would be interested because ur wrong over the last 7 years ive seen new classes and races come out and leme tell ya most people like the 100% will still try it and i got a feeling the iconics are geting more then enough gear and power to start without letting them tr right away.It would break the initual setup they have already worked on to release. so just chill out dude and see what happens. dont complain somthings a bad idea until u see the plan unfold. p.s if u dont like the way the people who own the game are making it then quit andlet us have our fun

  13. #13
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    Of course there will always be someone who does something, but creating money making content that entices 5% of the player base while ignoring the 95% is not the best way to go about it. Like I said, I WANT to play Iconics. Allowing them to TR or to TR into them would have no effect on you or the few you know who currently play them.
    Seriously, this is kind of ridiculous. In my guild, only three people have TR'ed...I'm one of them, my wife is another. We TR'ed our mains one time. One other guy is about to TR his main for the second time. I would say that, from my experience and what I have seen, your numbers are backwards. I would say 95% of the player base is more inclined to NOT TR, and they frankly don't care to. It isn't about uber-completionists, or having the best of the best, of being the numbah-juan playa in the game. It's about playing the damn game!

    Seriously, I hate the TR aspect. I like having my main at top level so I can hop in and play whatever I want whenever I want. I like leveling up different classes to get them there eventually as well. Don't just assume that 95% of the player base are all elitist power-gamers who must "win" the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Seriously, this is kind of ridiculous. In my guild, only three people have TR'ed...I'm one of them, my wife is another. We TR'ed our mains one time. One other guy is about to TR his main for the second time. I would say that, from my experience and what I have seen, your numbers are backwards. I would say 95% of the player base is more inclined to NOT TR, and they frankly don't care to. It isn't about uber-completionists, or having the best of the best, of being the numbah-juan playa in the game. It's about playing the damn game!

    Seriously, I hate the TR aspect. I like having my main at top level so I can hop in and play whatever I want whenever I want. I like leveling up different classes to get them there eventually as well. Don't just assume that 95% of the player base are all elitist power-gamers who must "win" the game.
    There is a little difference between completionists and gamers that wants three lives on their characters for a 36 point build.
    I have a roguish character with four +4 Tomes. She has a Caelestia and a Balizarde. Nothing special, but certainly better than nothing. I can do another TR but i want no grind the same equip again and again.
    I'll play Shadarkai when i'll can TR the Iconic Classes.
    (Maybe with Update 20)

    Ps. In my guild there are a lot of uber, i'm one of the slowest one, with a lot of first life characters.
    Ah, and i like better lower quests than end game, actually.

    And even if You HATE TR what damage do you have from person TRing Iconics?

    I don't know if this values are right, but i think that TR Players are players that wil play for a long, so they deserve a little help also for iconics.
    I understood that there will be and iconic tr with update 20. I'm expecting this.
    Last edited by Gwyxxx; 08-02-2013 at 03:32 AM.

  15. #15
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyxxx View Post
    There is a little difference between completionists and gamers that wants three lives on their characters for a 36 point build.
    I have a roguish character with four +4 Tomes. She has a Caelestia and a Balizarde. Nothing special, but certainly better than nothing. I can do another TR but i want no grind the same equip again and again.
    I'll play Shadarkai when i'll can TR the Iconic Classes.
    (Maybe with Update 20)

    Ps. In my guild there are a lot of uber, i'm one of the slowest one, with a lot of first life characters.
    Ah, and i like better lower quests than end game, actually.

    And even if You HATE TR what damage do you have from person TRing Iconics?

    I don't know if this values are right, but i think that TR Players are players that wil play for a long, so they deserve a little help also for iconics.
    I understood that there will be and iconic tr with update 20. I'm expecting this.
    I have no problems with someone who WANTS to TR. None at all, play the game how you enjoy it

    My issue was that he assumed that it was 95% of the player base who were constantly TR'ing...and that just isn't the case. I would say maybe 10-15% of the player base has TR'ed even the first time. And there is nothing wrong with that either
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    I have no problems with someone who WANTS to TR. None at all, play the game how you enjoy it

    My issue was that he assumed that it was 95% of the player base who were constantly TR'ing...and that just isn't the case. I would say maybe 10-15% of the player base has TR'ed even the first time. And there is nothing wrong with that either
    Personally, I think the numbers are more even than 80/20 in either direction. I'm a serial tr player on a coupla toons, and leveling up I pug a lot to meet people. And there are a LOT of other trs out there, but there are just as many first lifers. There is an audience for both of us, and Turbine SHOULD cater to both the tr and non tr crowd equally. No need to argue over it.
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  17. #17
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    I like the concept of iconics, but if i roll one up now and then decide I need to respec or reroll after the enhancement pass there isn't much i can do except multiple trips to fred. If someone makes a 18/2 Sorc/Pal now is there a way to take spellcraft when U19 is released?

    This is enough to scare me away from iconics for now. Too many changes coming and no ability to respec.

    I don't think they are bad, but I don't want to roll up an iconic and then put him on the shelf until U20. I would rather just wait until u20 when they become equal citizens.

  18. #18
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daine View Post
    I understand that with the normal new class releases there's a purposeful Ressurection delay to force people to learn the class as a "newb". Marketing standards are driving the decision I guess. Give everyone the same base level to begin from to promote discussion and and a sense of shared experience and you add to the sense of community thus ensuring engagement, continued loyalty and income stream.
    Well, that sounds lovely. But it's probably more like:

    1. The devs want everone to find the bugs. Pure and simple.
    2. Coding the resurrection stuff takes time and probably isn't as high a priority as a functioning playable class.
    3. Past life feats need to be figured out, balanced (as much as any), and ok'd before putting it in.
    4. Kruz just doesn't like noobs. (Ok, maybe that one I could be wrong on.)
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    This is allready proven live
    No, it isn't. I see Bladeforged all over the place. So your premise is flawed from the get go. I imagine I'll see the other iconics in some numbers when they go live.

    Personally, I like them. Much easier to build up bank character CL/HK favor on a lvl 15 than working on it slowly from levels 1, 4, or 7.

  20. #20
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    Default Iconics

    I'm F2P and I play at least one Iconic on every server. What better way then to start with a level 15 character in order to grind some turbine points for my main toons. First I go for Coin Lord favor, then House K and after that anything that is going on. Overall I am not interested in playing them because of the lack of control I have over their outcome. I really like selecting my own skill points.

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