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  1. #21
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Oh, they can still use them just fine.
    Are you use an acronym with the word fine there? Because without amping the scrolls a barb with sf pots has better self healing.

  2. #22
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Are you use an acronym with the word fine there? Because without amping the scrolls a barb with sf pots has better self healing.
    /sigh...

    I was answering a direct question as to why sorcs "can't use scrolls anymore." Specifically:
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOnly_LightInDark View Post
    Did I missi t why cant they use a scroll ?
    As the change to (a lack of)W&SMastery in no way alters your odds of seeing "success" on the die roll, yes; sorcs can use them just fine. No, they don't receive as much benefit as they did, but they have not lost their ability to use them.

    Surely you realized this?

    Edit: Oh, and heal scrolls still don't give negatives like SF pots
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 07-11-2013 at 08:41 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  3. #23
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    By "DOA" I assume you mean they are going from being 200% better than anything else to 120% better than anything else?

    Even with the broken spell crit/spell power a few weeks back Sorcs were still destroying all content.

    Rather than working on the theory that "if I complain enough about vague issues Turbine will listen and bring Sorcs back to the stupidly OP position they were in" how about you go with "I will compile a list of reasons as to why Sorcs are going to be nerfed so badly that no-one will want to play them - complete with detailed examples".

    Of course, Option 2 isnt possible because despite the changes which probably can in fact be called 'nerfs', they are still going to be very powerful. Just different.

  4. #24
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    By "DOA" I assume you mean they are going from being 200% better than anything else to 120% better than anything else?

    Even with the broken spell crit/spell power a few weeks back Sorcs were still destroying all content.

    Rather than working on the theory that "if I complain enough about vague issues Turbine will listen and bring Sorcs back to the stupidly OP position they were in" how about you go with "I will compile a list of reasons as to why Sorcs are going to be nerfed so badly that no-one will want to play them - complete with detailed examples".

    Of course, Option 2 isnt possible because despite the changes which probably can in fact be called 'nerfs', they are still going to be very powerful. Just different.
    Reality check. Sorcs haven't been on top for a while, the best builds to use have been things like melee (juggernaut, for example, and melee builds are getting better with the enhancement pass), ranged (which is getting buffed a decent bit), or shiradi spam (which is relatively unchanged) for EE (outside of the very few casters with the best of the best gear).

    Last I played, if someone joined your party in DI or Magister for most EEs, they were rarely worth the scaling they brought. The enhancement pass is going to be punishing to builds that already weren't even near the top...so yeah, that's the opposite of balancing.

    All this talk about sorcs being overpowered makes me think many people haven't played end-game since the many-TR(20+) human sorc was about the best build in the game...over a year ago.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  5. #25
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    It's amazing at the ignorance in this thread. Arcane DPS was never top-end. Proper monkchers and melee builds have always been way ahead of arcanes.

    Shiradi was already nerfed hard in the past few updates. Sorcs will be nerfed hard, wizards will be getting a moderate boost. Does that make sense? Does it make sense to turbine? The answer is no. Turbine is just shooting blindly with their nerf gun because they don't have a clue how to balance this game. Anyone thinking that the latest sorc nerf was a directed and intentional nerf is clueless as well.
    Last edited by AtomicMew; 07-12-2013 at 01:40 AM.

  6. #26
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikos1313 View Post
    anywayz, all i wanted to say is ''stop whinning ffs, we are full of it''!! .
    you want an empty forum?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    It's amazing at the ignorance in this thread. Arcane DPS was never top-end. Proper monkchers and melee builds have always been way ahead of arcanes.
    This is funny you act like juggs and monchers have been around forever. And you say never Im sorry this is inaccurate Juggs and monchers have edged there way in recently But Arcane DPS was on top for a long time and some would argue it still is.

  8. #28
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    I checked out one of my sorcs on Lam before the downtime. His main element was down 15 spell power, and secondary down 40 or so. This, combined with the spell critical changes, does result in a nerf. But 50%? Not even close to.

    Hopefully they'll help sorcs out some, since they're not really top of the pack anymore, and hasn't been for a good while. Not need to or point in nerfing them, IMO.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    It's amazing at the ignorance in this thread. Arcane DPS was never top-end. Proper monkchers and melee builds have always been way ahead of arcanes.

    Shiradi was already nerfed hard in the past few updates. Sorcs will be nerfed hard, wizards will be getting a moderate boost. Does that make sense? Does it make sense to turbine? The answer is no. Turbine is just shooting blindly with their nerf gun because they don't have a clue how to balance this game. Anyone thinking that the latest sorc nerf was a directed and intentional nerf is clueless as well.
    The pendulum has swung between arcanes and different flavour of melees for as long as I can remember.

    Right now, with ED's the pendulum is favouring trees and blitzers. Which isn't to say that arcanes are useless.

    Reading up on the new enhancements, I'm chuckling at the thought that they touch up the Protection tree and add a purely melee offensive Warpriest tree and swing the pendulum towards the divines

    The changes to spell critical multiplier and spell critical chance are clearly intentional. Are you now going to me that I'm clueless for stating this?

    But to answer the OP, if you think the new enhancements will make sorcs useless then you need to take another look or review your build - maybe play them through on Lamannia, not just speculate while standing in the dojo?

    EDIT: The Lamannia forums are down, but there was as post on the Lamannia dev tracker confirming that there will be a new prestige tree added for Sorcs but not in time for U19, could be U20. Speculation is that it will be Acolyte of Skin, but that's not been confirmed.

  10. #30
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowwer View Post
    This is funny you act like juggs and monchers have been around forever. And you say never Im sorry this is inaccurate Juggs and monchers have edged there way in recently But Arcane DPS was on top for a long time and some would argue it still is.
    Juggernaut was around about 3 weeks after artificer went live. It was only posted more recently, and before that there were forumites who wrongly posted melee artys weren't worth a slot in their group, until they saw the video of a group of them basically mocking EE quests.

    As for casters being OP, this comes from the last caster rebalance - and since then many adjustments and a few bugs have made it so casters went down a few pegs. Shiradi makes an SLA caster efficient, but in order to be a DC caster or one of the other 2 destinies, TRs are needed or efficiency drops off a ton. Meanwhile in other news a first life jug/archer/monkcher/melee player can keep up with them, np, since destinies came out a year ago. All those forms of DPS have less limitations as well as they don't rely on pure mana bar to perform well.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  11. #31
    Community Member Aganthor's Avatar
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    It's amazing how people can't cope with the fact that nothing in life is permanent... Even in this virtual world.
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  12. #32
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Anyone thinking that the latest sorc nerf was a directed and intentional nerf is clueless as well.
    Agreed, it's not intentional. They just don't know what they're doing.

  13. #33
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aganthor View Post
    It's amazing how people can't cope with the fact that nothing in life is permanent... Even in this virtual world.
    That doesn't mean you bend over and tolerate stupid changes.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    official confirmation that the sorc will not only be DOA on expansion, but likely U20 as well.
    Citation?

  15. #35
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aganthor View Post
    It's amazing how people can't cope with the fact that nothing in life is permanent... Even in this virtual world.
    Its not accurate to call people reporting their observations about the enhancement pass "cant cope".

    Could have made the interface look the way they want it with all the same enhancements we have currently, but instead channging the look becomes a segway to change the way everything about character building works.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Its not accurate to call people reporting their observations about the enhancement pass "cant cope".

    Could have made the interface look the way they want it with all the same enhancements we have currently, but instead channging the look becomes a segway to change the way everything about character building works.
    But the very loud forum crew has been demanding the unreleased pre's get finished, it must be done, NOW NOW NOW.

    Can't blame em for trying to kill two birds with one stone.... it remains to be seen if they will be successful.

  17. #37
    Community Member nikos1313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    It's amazing at the ignorance in this thread. Arcane DPS was never top-end. Proper monkchers and melee builds have always been way ahead of arcanes.

    when sorcs were leading the DPS in this game, monkchers were not even an idea on someones mind... ill leave melees out of this comparison, not worth mentioning!
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  18. #38
    Community Member Aganthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    That doesn't mean you bend over and tolerate stupid changes.
    True! But then again, even if the community is hell bent on some features, if Turbine doesn't feel that way, they won't implement it.

    IIRC, when they made the changes to TWF, there was major uproar on the forums. People whine that it would destroy TWF build. Time passed on and people adapted. The same thing will happen with the enhancement pass. People will whine and some will rage quit. But in the end, the builders will find new flavors of the month and the game will go on.
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  19. #39
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aganthor View Post
    True! But then again, even if the community is hell bent on some features, if Turbine doesn't feel that way, they won't implement it.

    IIRC, when they made the changes to TWF, there was major uproar on the forums. People whine that it would destroy TWF build. Time passed on and people adapted. The same thing will happen with the enhancement pass. People will whine and some will rage quit. But in the end, the builders will find new flavors of the month and the game will go on.
    I parked my Esos, no evasion, no heal amp barb right when Motu came out. I have been looking and there is a nice Kensai (exploiter) type I can tr into. This is fine with me. I can flavor of the month with the best of them and I will play it until it is deemed to OP and then move onto the September flavor.

    My complaint is with what you consider evolution. We heard over a year ago that you will NOT lose destiny xp when you tr. Does will NOT lose equate to 1 year in Forgotten Realms time? There is evolution and then there is just being lied too. This is just one concern, and I will not beat this dead horse again. However, this is the type of situation that discourages and upsets people.

    As you stated, I will have the new flavor soon. I can play by their rules and guidelines. I just keep my eyes open and look to see if some things are evolution or changing things to have better store sales, or changing things so that they do not have to put money back into the game and just have us rerunning the same content.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    It's amazing at the ignorance in this thread. Arcane DPS was never top-end.
    We have always been at war with Eastasia!

    Honestly, "never"? All of this S*** getting made up to lobby the devs is getting so old. I haven't seen Shade around in awhile, but it's like a hundred little Shades have show up spewing distorted BS about how the game works in order to get their toons buffed.

    There's a point to be made here, but it's being made very poorly by dishonest advocates.
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