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  1. #1
    Community Member humbleroller's Avatar
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    Default Ausomium not so awesome as it is inefficient.

    I see this as a problem. 16 instances of the same thing. I didnt even have any windows open in the game.

    Turbine, perhaps allowing this sloppy coding into the game is what is causing you headaches a year later.



    Imagine how much memory fragmentation is going on...

    here is someones youtube video on it. mentions some good points for not using it. (not mine - contains swears)
    Last edited by humbleroller; 07-10-2013 at 10:10 PM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Philibusta's Avatar
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    WOW! Sixteen instances??!?! That's ridiculous!

    I get 7 instances of the Awesomium thing when I load up DDO, and usually I immediately set about manually killing six of them.

    Of course, it's easy, cause I always have to load DDO with my Task Manager running. This is because DDO never ever ever ever loads on the first attempt for me. I have to wait till I'm loading into the game from the character selection screen, till I see "Not Responding". Then I kill dndclient, and the ddolancher.exe automatically pops up in my system tray. When I click on that, I get the little "dice-rolling" graphic, and the launcher goes right to the login screen. After I log in the SECOND time, the game (most of the time) loads fine.
    All that is wrong with DDO, life, taxes, poltics, religion, music, fast food, education, the criminal justice system, the weather, society, the universe, and previously-discontinued-but-now-on-their-way-back snack cakes, is all the fault of Wizards of the Coast. I know this because Fred told me so, and Mind Flayers are smart.

  3. #3
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    It's a major pain in the a$$ having to ctrl/alt/del and open the task manager and close 8 of these programs both times I have to log in to play this game.

    I think Turbine must be purposely trying to make this game a difficult as possible to play...either that or they are actually as incompetent as a lot of people claim.

  4. #4
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DakDeFrosted View Post
    It's a major pain in the a$$ having to ctrl/alt/del and open the task manager and close 8 of these programs both times I have to log in to play this game.

    I think Turbine must be purposely trying to make this game a difficult as possible to play...either that or they are actually as incompetent as a lot of people claim.
    If the game runs fine with them disabled, one wonders why they are enabled in the first place? If we need them for the store, they shouldn't be active when the store is not.
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  5. #5
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    If the game runs fine with them disabled, one wonders why they are enabled in the first place? If we need them for the store, they shouldn't be active when the store is not.
    The store keeps running in the background, it has something to do with fast accessibility of it I guess.
    And I rather have those processes running then not being able to access the store.

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  6. #6
    Community Member Philibusta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    If the game runs fine with them disabled, one wonders why they are enabled in the first place? If we need them for the store, they shouldn't be active when the store is not.
    Quote Originally Posted by LightBear View Post
    The store keeps running in the background, it has something to do with fast accessibility of it I guess.
    And I rather have those processes running then not being able to access the store.
    The Store runs fine with one instance of Awesomium running. Thats why I disable all instances except one. If you disable them all, and then try to access the DDO Store, it crashes the game. At least thats been the experience of myself and some others.
    All that is wrong with DDO, life, taxes, poltics, religion, music, fast food, education, the criminal justice system, the weather, society, the universe, and previously-discontinued-but-now-on-their-way-back snack cakes, is all the fault of Wizards of the Coast. I know this because Fred told me so, and Mind Flayers are smart.

  7. #7
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    If the game runs fine with them disabled, one wonders why they are enabled in the first place? If we need them for the store, they shouldn't be active when the store is not.
    The game runs fine as long as you don't open any "web page". Before they dumped that crapware on us, it was handled internally through the awesomium.dll.
    ( which is basically the same thing as the process, but as an internal browser instead of being a separate process )

    The explanation for the processes is because the DLL had problems with long URLs... So the obvious solution is : instead of fixing the long URL so that they become shorter, we are going to use that external process thingie... we don't care about performance issue, we don't care about memory hog issue, we don't care about anything. We will do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philibusta View Post
    The Store runs fine with one instance of Awesomium running. Thats why I disable all instances except one. If you disable them all, and then try to access the DDO Store, it crashes the game. At least thats been the experience of myself and some others.
    The game will crash if you kill the wrong one, Each process is linked to a given window : 1 process for the Store, 1 process for the MuDDO page, 1 process for the Help window, 1 process for the Store at character selection, 1 Process for the Launcher alerts... I don't know what the last two processes do, but I can guess that they are sending data to Google and a few other third parties, as I have seen traffic going out from DDOclient towards those third parties.
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  8. #8
    Community Member enochiancub's Avatar
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    I wonder if ones OS has anything to do with this. I run an Ubuntu machine and haven't encountered this awesomium spam. I'm going to choke down the bile and download a copy of windows to test the difference.

    You'd think that after the countless threads that get started about this topic there would be some kind of info given to us other than

    Turbine: "It's awesomiums fault"
    Awesomium: "It's Turbines fault"

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  9. #9
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Turbine: "It's awesomiums fault"
    Awesomium: "It's Turbines fault"

    Player:" we don't care who's fault it is.. Stop pointing fingers and Fix it.."
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
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  10. #10
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    I don't know the technical details of this specific problem. but this may not be within Turbine's ability to "fix"

    Long story short, they're using a tool developed by a third party. They may or may not have control over their interface to the tool. Their only control may be to choose a different tool. I have no idea what their options are and what the costs (both $$$ and performance) might be.

    So many people are unaware of the level to which software developers are held hostage to third parties, whether it be Microsoft (or now Apple), a search engine, a purchase processor, an ISP, hardware manufacturers, eveyone's got their hand in your pocket and telling you how you have to run things.

    It's a miracle sometimes that development can even get done.
    Last edited by My2Cents; 07-11-2013 at 08:40 AM.

  11. #11
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DakDeFrosted View Post
    It's a major pain in the a$$ having to ctrl/alt/del and open the task manager and close 8 of these programs both times I have to log in to play this game.

    I think Turbine must be purposely trying to make this game a difficult as possible to play...either that or they are actually as incompetent as a lot of people claim.
    Awesome: Turbine is doing it wrong as you only need 1 instance to handle it.

    Turbine: Awesome doesn't support long file names such that with only one instance some people could not access the store ever. Having multiple copies running is a work around.


    I is the typical game of tennis blame. Take your pick who you think is worse in this case.

    BTW, those are official responses from both sides.

  12. #12
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    So many people are unaware of the level to which software developers are held hostage to third parties, whether it be Microsoft (or now Apple), a search engine, a purchase processor, an ISP, hardware manufacturers, eveyone's got their hand in your pocket and telling you how you have to run things.
    Most of these aren't the real problem though. The real problem is the management behind Turbine. If they say Awesomium is to be used, then it will be used. The players may as well stop complaining. It won't be fixed and it won't be replaced.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    I don't know the technical details of this specific problem. but this may not be within Turbine's ability to "fix"

    Long story short, they're using a tool developed by a third party. They may or may not have control over their interface to the tool. Their only control may be to choose a different tool. I have no idea what their options are and what the costs (both $$$ and performance) might be.
    Other MMOs don't have this problem, seems like Turbine chose the wrong third party. I am not surprised.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by humbleroller View Post
    Peerblock is a placebo.

    Just to let you know.

  15. #15
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    I don't know the technical details of this specific problem. but this may not be within Turbine's ability to "fix"

    Long story short, they're using a tool developed by a third party. They may or may not have control over their interface to the tool. Their only control may be to choose a different tool. I have no idea what their options are and what the costs (both $$$ and performance) might be.
    The technical details are the following ( as given by MajMal ) :
    The awesomium.DLL light 3PP, we used previously was not working with some long URL we have in the Store. We had to go using the heavy awesomiumprocess.exe instead to cover those long URLs.

    In the age where URL length reduction technology is available to everybody and knowing that Turbine has a full control over the Store URL lenght it's either bull**** or they have people in the web department that are unable to even make sloppy things work.

    Quote Originally Posted by enochiancub View Post
    I wonder if ones OS has anything to do with this. I run an Ubuntu machine and haven't encountered this awesomium spam. I'm going to choke down the bile and download a copy of windows to test the difference.

    You'd think that after the countless threads that get started about this topic there would be some kind of info given to us other than

    Turbine: "It's awesomiums fault"
    Awesomium: "It's Turbines fault"
    Linux ( and Mac ) don't work the same way, and you're probably still using the DLL instead of forking 7 new processes.

    And from my point of view, knowing the above, for me it's clearly Turbine's Fault. They can fix the sloppy work that generated URLs too long for the embedded browser and go back to that embedded browser that only ran On Demand, and didn't have to prefetch webpages and run scripts without being displayed.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Luxgolg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    In the age where URL length reduction technology is available to everybody and knowing that Turbine has a full control over the Store URL lenght it's either bull**** or they have people in the web department that are unable to even make sloppy things work.
    Like the forums?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    I don't know what the last two processes do, but I can guess that they are sending data to Google and a few other third parties, as I have seen traffic going out from DDOclient towards those third parties.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    And from my point of view, knowing the above, for me it's clearly Turbine's Fault. They can fix the sloppy work that generated URLs too long for the embedded browser and go back to that embedded browser that only ran On Demand, and didn't have to prefetch webpages and run scripts without being displayed.
    If the top quote is true, then we have our reason why they switched from the dll to the exe. They are probably getting paid by the third parties for the data.

  18. #18
    The Hatchery Urist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    Linux ( and Mac ) don't work the same way, and you're probably still using the DLL instead of forking 7 new processes.
    Noperoonie. You think DDO has ever had a native linux client? We run DDO using Wine (or a derivative), which means it runs the exact same executable/s as Windows.
    Since the patch which started the awesomium-process shenanigans, I personally have noticed that the client has been significantly less stable than before. Regular "minimization incidents" or freezes when first loading a character (though this is seemingly avoided by changing which character is selected (and back again if necessary) when you get to that screen), irregular black-screens when quitting the client, and irregularly having awesomium processes not shut down properly (though not experienced this one recently).
    Quite often I have to manually `kill` the dndclient.exe process to get it to quit properly. Sometimes the same with awesomium.exe.

    However, worrying about a dozen processes which, based on the screenshot, use up less than 180MB of RAM (with the game itself using over a Gig already)? Sure it's wasteful, but it's hardly the end of the world. Crashing, freezing, and zombie processes are reason to complain. Some extra processes using more than likely far less than 1% or your total RAM and zero CPU? Not so much.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urist View Post
    However, worrying about a dozen processes which, based on the screenshot, use up less than 180MB of RAM (with the game itself using over a Gig already)? Sure it's wasteful, but it's hardly the end of the world. Crashing, freezing, and zombie processes are reason to complain. Some extra processes using more than likely far less than 1% or your total RAM and zero CPU? Not so much.
    Sometimes it's not really just the memory it's using. A post recently showed 42 instances of it running, another had 84 instances. The funny thing is, although most of the time it does show them using 0% of the CPU, when there are so many instances, they do actually use up small amounts of the CPU that eventually adds up.

    I-J1NG

  20. #20
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urist View Post
    However, worrying about a dozen processes which, based on the screenshot, use up less than 180MB of RAM (with the game itself using over a Gig already)? Sure it's wasteful, but it's hardly the end of the world. Crashing, freezing, and zombie processes are reason to complain. Some extra processes using more than likely far less than 1% or your total RAM and zero CPU? Not so much.
    One of the awesomiumprocess.exe process can eat up to more than 50% CPU in spikes every 5 to 10 seconds... ( that's the one that eats up 68Mb in ram on the screenshot... that's how it can be detected, it's the biggest memory user... ).... Obviously on some computers it is going to lead to rubberbanding, stuttering and other niceties.

    And I went all the way for the original quote : https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5019078

    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    We use Awesomium as our embedded browser. Just like Google Chrome, it creates child processes for robustness, so if one browser instance crashes, it shouldn’t crash the entire game client. In the past, we’ve had Awesomium set to run in single-process mode inside of our game to reduce confusion about the external processes. However, we discovered a bug where the browser (and by extension, the web store) would stop working if the URL got too long and we were running Awesomium in single-process mode. So we switched it to multi-process mode to address this issue. The browser is consuming the same amount of resources as before, it’s just doing it in separate processes instead of all being rolled into dndclient.exe. Using the task manager to kill the awesomium processes will crash your game client.
    Note that while partially true, the last statement is basically false : You can run the game with the awesomiumprocess.exe killed, as long as you don't try to open the store, the help and/or the MyDDO windows. If you try any of these windows you will be dumped to desktop though.
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