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  1. #21
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    Default Three little words : "Anti Magic Shell"

    A very long time ago in a land far far away there lived a Paladin, and he adventured for a very very long time throguh a whole variety of trials and triumphs.

    Just before he retired he was graced with a most wonderful weapon, a Holy Sword with Anti-Magic Shell.

    That was very cool.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    A very long time ago in a land far far away there lived a Paladin, and he adventured for a very very long time throguh a whole variety of trials and triumphs.

    Just before he retired he was graced with a most wonderful weapon, a Holy Sword with Anti-Magic Shell.

    That was very cool.
    Holy swords once upon a time always meant 50% MR for the paladin who wielded it, keep in mind back then Magic Resistance meant just that a straight roll to avoid any effect. It was also easy enough to defeat by sending in a skilled disarm expert to take it out of play so a caster could drop the pallie.

    To be honest real DMs can and will always kill paladins in actual play because they are just too easy to lead into fights they cant hope to win. Or classic campaign changes like going from the realms to Sigil will get most paladins killed when they detect evil on the first evil outsider try to start a fight and end up mazed or shredded by the lovely Lady herself.

    Being too good is one of the most exploitable weaknesses a player can have and a DM is supposed to use those things to abuse te players. Its all clearly covered in various articles found in the pages of various issues of Dungeons and Dragons over the years now long passed.

    As for the topic of this thread. While I personally do feel magic is largely to OP due to things like SR not effecting dmging spells and a lack of certain prestige classes like the Templar who got Mettle( the fort/will equiv of Evasion) and Weapon spec in their weapon at its first lvl,a nd was easy to qualify for by lvl 6 are the real source of this issue.

    They give us Arch Mage and PM arguably two of the most favored and OP caster based PRC written, but give no where near the equal to the combat classes. If elven rangers could be Elf Lords, and fighters instead samurai going the path of Iaijutsu mastery these feelings of great inequality between magic and steel might go away fast.

  3. #23
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    Cool

    Oh also one of the big things to 3E over the previous eds was counter spelling, the rules became much clearer and better defined for the casual player so not only die hard players of casters could grasp it. A popular prestige class called the arcane duelist was made specifically for casters who wanted to spec in fighting other casters. So maybe the biggest question for DDO devs should be why counter spelling the most basic and vital way for casters to counter each other was left out.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    those are items and spells to absorb the spells. they are not items or spells to resist against them. get the difference?
    Here are the first few sentences of the OP:

    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    (Title: Defense against magic) In other words; there is none.

    I was reading another thread and the thing that stuck out most, to me, was the lack of defenses against magic. Seriously.
    So when someone points out ioun stone, mantle, jeweled cloak et al., I'm not sure how a condescending response fits in the equation.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Enemy casters are the least deadly things in ee imo, they tend to be easier to stun or trip. That said here are some defenses

    evasion -- already touched on
    good saves -- makes it half damage
    primal armor -- 10% absorption of all elemental damage
    pale lavender ioun stone -- spell absorption
    jeweled cloak -- spell absorption
    mantle of the worldshaper -- spell absorption
    fire shield hot -- 50% cold absorption
    fire shield cold -- 50% fire absorption
    energy sheath -- 50% chosen elemental absorption usually electric
    globe of invulnerability
    twitch skills
    hp and self healing
    scarab of protection

    these are not mutually exclusive either so you can layer your defenses and get very high to almost magic immunity for elemental damage
    You can also just twist in a level 3 from magister to get a further stacking resist. (Don't work on traps, but does on spells)

    Run dreaming dark till you want to go postal to get your 50 spell absorption ioun stone. (You have to upgrade it after you get it)

    Carry +40 resist items.


    The only significant changes in spells is the fact they are now using horrid wilting, and poison spells in epic content... Someone figured out that it wasn't too hard to get improved evasion, and a +50 can't fail on a 1 saves. So they started blasting with things that are not reflex saves, so you don't save for none.

    Horrid wilting, polar ray, poison damage from dragons.

    Their are "NEW" things that the only thing that works, is spell absorption. So get a jeweled cloak, know what quests, and what monsters toss it out, and soak it up with charges.

    Farm an ioun stone too.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    because they are just too easy to lead into fights they cant hope to win.
    Only if the player is playing the Paladin as Lawful Stupid and the DM sucks.

    I wouldn't mind if they added this to the game:
    Mantle of Epic Spell Resistance
    This garment is worn over normal clothing or armor. It grants the wearer spell resistance 40.

    Caster Level: 29th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Epic Wondrous Item, spell resistance; Market Price: 290,000 gp. Weight: 1 lb.

  7. #27
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    We have saving throws. I love Evasion, but it is dependant on a Rewf save... and a high Ref save is still darn good even without Evasion.

    We have SR (is it high enough though? Maybe not... not sure.....)

    Rays can be physicaly dodged.. the monster give visual clues when they are casting. (but I do think we should have a touch AC to hit roll required.)(but I also can see why we don't)

    Many newer spells are not evadable. But most have saves of some sort.

    Not all have saves.

    I am particualry upset about DOT spells, like Divine Punishment. These do not even require exact unobstructed line of sight to cast.

    Personally, I think DOT should have saves... per tic anyway. Maybe along with an intial save.

    I am for some unsavable spells.

    But perhaps more common spell absorbsion items should be available.



    However..... no matter what you may think about spells that have no defense....

    there are still three defenses against all spells/


    1. Not having agro! (or not standing too close to someone who has agro anyway)

    2. HP... enough to survive the damage.

    3. and healing! That would be self healing... I swear it continually amzes me how many peolple have zero interest in having the means to sel fheal or takinf the time to do so.

    Another defense.. is running away.
    If I get hit for a huge amount of damage.... I run...... I hel up like craxy... I keep runing until I am healed back to a fighting Strength.

    If I get heled up to that fighting strength by a Cleric.. great.. I go back to fighting quicker... (sometimes I get healed so fast I don't stop fighting...but not always)

    I use terrain as my defense. Some spells this is difficult.. But no spell can go completely though a wall (not counting certain walls.... that aren't really walls....)

    But of course... you stil have to find a way to deal with the mosnter that is casting on you. cause if he can't hurt you because of a wal, you usually can't hurt him either......


    Anyway... although I think this should be looked at... I can already complete EEs just fine.... so is it really a problem?

    Might be.

    I think DOTs are..... both for us and the monsters....(Ok... and yes... those PvPers too.....)

    and if they are not a rpoblem yet... they might be in future...higher level dungeons....
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  8. #28
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    But let me also add that monsters "should" have to make Concentration checks.... (especially since I think hirelings do....grrr....)

    And that I think there should be more things we can do to prevent them from casting spells....

    (and add Antimagic Shell spell...)

    (can't wait to see the uproar when Harry casts that one! lol)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    Oh also one of the big things to 3E over the previous eds was counter spelling, the rules became much clearer and better defined for the casual player so not only die hard players of casters could grasp it. A popular prestige class called the arcane duelist was made specifically for casters who wanted to spec in fighting other casters. So maybe the biggest question for DDO devs should be why counter spelling the most basic and vital way for casters to counter each other was left out.
    Hahahahahahahahaha...wait...what?

    You do realize how counterspelling works, right? You have to 1) identify/know what spell is being cast, & 2) cast the same spell more or less simultaneously. This would be really simple for the NPCs (bad guys) to use against us, and all but impossible for us to use against them. NTY!
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 07-11-2013 at 03:59 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow - btw, do you have change for 10 million population?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    I say we need to add lesser/greater spell mantles to the arcane spell list. Not powerful ones, just enough to shrug off a few spells so that arcanes don't get obliterated when they shouldn't have to.
    You mean things like this?

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Magic_Circle_Against_Evil
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Globe_of_Invulnerability
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Lesser_Globe_of_Invulnerability
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_Resistance,_Mass
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_Resistance_(spell)

    Plus other spell protections like Freedom of Movement, Deathward, Nightshield, etc..

  11. #31
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    Here are the first few sentences of the OP:



    So when someone points out ioun stone, mantle, jeweled cloak et al., I'm not sure how a condescending response fits in the equation.
    not sure how you read it as condescending. wasn't trying to be and apologize if it came across that way.

  12. #32
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    a Globe you have to stay inside. it doesn't move and it deflects level 4 or lower spells. a lesser globe will also debuff you while inside it. where else do casters use it besides Hound?

    magic circle wears out its usefulness after like level 5. +2 deflection bonus to AC and +2 resistance to saves from evil creatures isn't worth casting beyond low levels.

    I don't know exactly where the cut off is for SR usefulness, but its good if it increase the higher the level you go. you basically have to be in a party with a FVS or cleric to get the spell cast on you, unless you have the umd to use the scrolls, which casters normally can get 44 umd. otherwise you could use an item. SR is ignored by damaging spells, so I guess know your enemies and what they cast?

    nightshield only protects against force spells and the save bonus can be increased to +3 by level 9. how much force do we see in high levels.

    a lot of these spells are useful for heroic levels, maybe needing a little tweak or scaling up since the spells were not touched again after implementation. we have nothing really to boost these spells to be useful in higher levels beyond level 20.

  13. #33
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    magic circle wears out its usefulness after like level 5. +2 deflection bonus to AC and +2 resistance to saves from evil creatures isn't worth casting beyond low levels.
    It also protects against command/greater command very useful at epic levels.

  14. #34
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    It also protects against command/greater command very useful at epic levels.
    yep, forgot about that one. protection from evil works too. only reason to have the spell in upper levels really.

  15. #35
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    Default But what about my specific situation?

    In my specific situation, I drop into TOR EH, the first encounter is bands of giants, in the first batch, one of them quickly removes -all- of my elemental protections and I drop dead pretty fast. probably cant keep up with healing.

    What ability are they using and is there anything besides the insane will save suggested above I can do to protect myself from that removal of my elemental protections? Its like a slow-motion disintegrate.

    As for spell absorption, I really don't find any of those items that grant oh, say, 5 or 10 spell absorption points worth it, they go away in the first part of any real big fight and only delay the inevitable. I need something that will last through melee battle. The purple ioun stone seems viable. The Jeweled cloak might be, but I've already got a purple and I can farm for more (if they're not exclusive.)

    The Scarab of Protection might be nice, but it goes poof to dust - I generally won't expend a lot of energy on one-time items. If I'm handed one or stumble on one, great!

    I'm looking for long term and long lasting solutions to protect me from spells say through the greater part of a quest.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    (can't wait to see the uproar when Harry casts that one! lol)
    As long as he has room to cast it while my Great Axe is taking a chunk outta him that'd be fine with me...


  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    In my specific situation, I drop into TOR EH, the first encounter is bands of giants, in the first batch, one of them quickly removes -all- of my elemental protections and I drop dead pretty fast. probably cant keep up with healing.

    What ability are they using and is there anything besides the insane will save suggested above I can do to protect myself from that removal of my elemental protections? Its like a slow-motion disintegrate.

    I'm looking for long term and long lasting solutions to protect me from spells say through the greater part of a quest.
    If you're looking for elemental damage reduction, % based items and clickies (or recastable spells) are the way to go. If you want straight up immunity, absorption items are it. Aside from a high will save, absorption is the only defense I'm aware of against dispell effects.

    Unless you're willing to consider tactics? You mentioned Epic Tor specifically. Twist in Pin to keep the casters at a distance, then circle in behind line of sight? IDK, tbh hasn't been an issue for me. I've usually only solo'd it on my caster - in which case I finger the giants, or on my pally where the will save seems to be a non-issue. I'm guessing your soloing? I suppose pugging up some cannon fodder's out of the question?
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow - btw, do you have change for 10 million population?

  18. #38
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    In my specific situation, I drop into TOR EH, the first encounter is bands of giants, in the first batch, one of them quickly removes -all- of my elemental protections and I drop dead pretty fast. probably cant keep up with healing.

    What ability are they using and is there anything besides the insane will save suggested above I can do to protect myself from that removal of my elemental protections? Its like a slow-motion disintegrate.

    As for spell absorption, I really don't find any of those items that grant oh, say, 5 or 10 spell absorption points worth it, they go away in the first part of any real big fight and only delay the inevitable. I need something that will last through melee battle. The purple ioun stone seems viable. The Jeweled cloak might be, but I've already got a purple and I can farm for more (if they're not exclusive.)

    The Scarab of Protection might be nice, but it goes poof to dust - I generally won't expend a lot of energy on one-time items. If I'm handed one or stumble on one, great!

    I'm looking for long term and long lasting solutions to protect me from spells say through the greater part of a quest.
    Not an easy quest to solo and I think that's what you are doing, so my advice is a few fold.

    Get better dps gear, more dps they die faster
    Use trip / Stun casters don't cast when they're disabled
    Use displacement to protect yourself from melee
    Get more party members
    Run normal if you can't run hard or elite

    Not everything is a cake walk to solo and it shouldn't be. Any more specific advice will need specific details, your build gear saves ext are all important.

  19. #39
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    To the previous couple of quoters: In no way do I expect it to be a cakewalk, in fact, I do/did it to be a challenge for me and to be an opportunity to improve my skills and understanding of DDO.

    In no way do I feel entitled to complete or even survive it, it just prompted a question I've been wondering about for a long time, because I didn't expect to be pummelled so quickly after beating up on EN.

    It was worth asking, I've learned a few things.

    I've been wondering about this for a very long time, since my main was much lower level, been meaning to ask.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    To the previous couple of quoters: In no way do I expect it to be a cakewalk, in fact, I do/did it to be a challenge for me and to be an opportunity to improve my skills and understanding of DDO.

    In no way do I feel entitled to complete or even survive it, it just prompted a question I've been wondering about for a long time, because I didn't expect to be pummelled so quickly after beating up on EN.

    It was worth asking, I've learned a few things.

    I've been wondering about this for a very long time, since my main was much lower level, been meaning to ask.
    Honest first opinion is that from my memory nothing in there does that much damage in one hit on eh, yeah you don't want to be surrounded and pummeled ext but nothing extravagent. My honest thought is that your dps was just too low solo and you had too many giants up at once.

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