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  1. #1
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    Default Why a Pure caster Artificer? Mobs will still save against rune arm attacks/ spells!

    Hi folks,

    After i played an artificer for almost a year and tried many builds and ideas about how to play an artificer, i find myself astonished about how much cons there are about the idea of a pure caster artificer. I also went on lamannia today not to be outdated on the subject.

    Compared to other caster a pure casting artificer maxed out on a +5 int tome, full enhancements, feats and destinies can barely hit a dice of 51 dc with completionist, 3 lives of sorcs and the active past life of wizard on a human. On Lamannia right now, you get +1 to dcs if you take the new capstone... it is still much too low. (CORRECTION: +3 dc if magister only with +6 int)

    Why is it so low...? For Epic Elites, DCs of rune-arms and spells of an artificer are rarely, about 25% passing through.

    Here are a couple reasons why the dcs are so low:

    *Just to explain my thoughs... difficulty checks are made for pure casters' mostly highest reachable dc when doing most Epic Elites.

    -Starting with a maximum level of 6 compared to other casters (-3 dc)
    -Rune arms don't take in consideration items that boost dcs (-2, possible -3)
    mixed out with that formula: (it's a joke)
    10 + (Charge Tier + 1) + (INT modifier) + (Max Charge Tier - 1) + (Evocation Feat Bonuses)

    -Maximum stat start at 18 (-1)

    Put that all into consideration:

    -Using ice, fire, lightning rune-arms or anything that use reflex are pointless in epic hard and epic elite (total min. -6 dc) (KILL THE VERSATILTY OF RUNEARM USE)
    *Most runearms dont get spellpower for the type you use nor have a red augment slot to compensate the lack of dc.

    -Using the few spells we got, well it works a bit better since some spells have multiple effects (mostly cc) but still... each of those spells are used at a very high sp cost. (SEMI KILL OF non buff SPELL USE UNLESS BEST GEAR and everything else MAXED OUT)

    I just think it doesn't give us enough choice if the dc are to stay that low when you can anyway cast a total of 20 spells before being depleted.

    I don't mean that a pure caster arti should to be compared to a sorc here... i mean that what the arti does... should work if at least good efforts are put into it.

    I find no wonder why people wants to splash into monk/pal , make melee juggernauts artificers with very high melee dmg and insane on many shot, Run into traps instead of disarming, self heal instead of mass heal (crappy implemented pot throwing), tank, have incredible saves with evasion because of 2 levels? :I

    At this point we are all likely to forget about the features of the class itself.

    Beside that, i think that the artificer is a fun class to play and has a potential for versatility... though even after 2 years... There is much to do to make it right!

    Good day yo you all!

    *Question of the day: Why isn't there a mass version of that deadly that does not takes 1/3rd of an arty's spellpoint pool when buffing in a raid?
    Last edited by maitremechant; 07-11-2013 at 06:39 PM.

  2. #2
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    Actually a pure caster artificer can get the HIGHEST DCs in the game, including a 70+ trip and daze DC.


    The thing you are missing are two ED abilities:
    1. Draconic augmentation: 15% chance on electrical spell for -10 reflex save
    2. Evocation augmentation: 15% chance on evocation spell for -10 reflex save


    The two stack, and go off a ton when spamming electricity spells. I have been using this on lammania with the new electric SLAs and owing EE mobs solo. Double stack for -20 reflex, and plop a tactical detonation on the mobs for knockdown and just spam SLAs. I wasn't even using my runearm, was just using the CITW staff. The debuff applies even on electricity immune mobs so a acid runearm + prismatic strike can be used to kill those mobs while they sit on the ground from the tactical detonation knockdown.



    Pure caster Artie's will OWN EEs in the next update!
    Making DDO a better game 1 post at a time!

    Triple EVERYTHING Completionist= Heroic 39/39, Iconic 12/12, Epic 36/36

  3. #3
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    Thank you for answering me that fast!

    I am still curious!

    When you say:
    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    Actually a pure caster artificer can get the HIGHEST DCs in the game, including a 70+ trip and daze DC.


    The thing you are missing are two ED abilities:
    1. Draconic augmentation: 15% chance on electrical spell for -10 reflex save
    2. Evocation augmentation: 15% chance on evocation spell for -10 reflex save


    The two stack, and go off a ton when spamming electricity spells. I have been using this on lammania with the new electric SLAs and owing EE mobs solo. Double stack for -20 reflex, and plop a tactical detonation on the mobs for knockdown and just spam SLAs. I wasn't even using my runearm, was just using the CITW staff. The debuff applies even on electricity immune mobs so a acid runearm + prismatic strike can be used to kill those mobs while they sit on the ground from the tactical detonation knockdown.



    Pure caster Artie's will OWN EEs in the next update!
    Ok, i tried the electric spec today and i spammed that already, i also used to play electric specs for months... let's say 15% chance from evoc augment + 25% chance minus at least 1 twist twists: -3 base from wizard specialist or -2 base from sorcerer... (we take the -2) Your suggestion is better on procs but mostly similar on the results on a long term use...= 15% of 10 is 1.5 dc average and 3 dc average and that's on electric.

    which would mean you need to force attack on electric before doing anything else to make it a proc work! Ok well that is a good start but still doesnt make the spell pool balanced for that type of casting (here i mean cc's and other dmg spells) even with SLAs taken in... You end up spamming a lot for a result that is just what i mean.

    Another thing that i though when i saw it. That would also render acid and other types of rune-arm less useful as those destinies dont work on those... maybe i missed the essence of your answer.... idk I am really trying to find a way to avoid some of the cons of taking destinies that proc boosts not to mention that so many mobs evade the entire damage of lightning runearms and the the projectiles often fails to reach the target... In a sense, it is the highest spell dmg an arty can do... but it is also not enough compensated by the number of mobs highly resistant / immune to lightning / saving or evading. As the acid runarm has more charges overall more difficult saves to bypass on fortitude but is a better work around...

    Let me be clear about it Sla's are a very nice feature, it opens new REAL possibilities... i can clearly see an implement on the arty with the lightning SLAs and the revamped enhancements... but runarm wise, heal pot, and cc/dps spells... i can't see it!:P

    (GLAD that the acid ones are fixed though, that is AWESOME to see it reach the target all the time)

    Runearm model still is:?

    10 + (Charge Tier + 1) + (INT modifier) + (Max Charge Tier - 1) + (Evocation Feat Bonuses)

    10+ 5+ 22 (with 54 int) +5 -1 + evofeats 2 heroic + 2 epic = 45 :O

    Spells can get there true 52+10+10 but requires luck, spamming and must be redone every 30 secs which in a long run... is not a good workaround with the exception of the SLAs that can be casted at a very low cost.

    I don't need to have a detailed answer, but i just though i am on track on those matters an though that my post could help on the develpment of the class, if you guys think it make sense ;P

    I don't think the artificer should necessary rule EE ... they already have a potential, if enough patience and perseverance to cover the versatility needed in all quests without even mentioning SLAs or proc destinies! I just think that some of it's features need to be better adapted... EXACTLY how they are revamping the arty, electric spec. It is on a very good track so far.


    I told my buddies how much i liked the new enhancements, giving us the choice for multiple and good enhancements is definitely the way to go.
    Last edited by maitremechant; 07-10-2013 at 02:54 AM.

  4. #4
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    I am not sure what you are asking me in your post, but yes you do lead the attack with lightning spells. Also I am suggesting that a caster Artie's is powerfull in the enhancement pass due to the SLAs, on live they just don't have the mana to pull off what I describe here.


    The 3 SLAs are:
    Lightning sphere for 4 mana, 5second cooldown

    Blast rod for 6mana, 6 second cooldown

    Lightning motes for 2 mana, 4 second cooldown


    Cast motes, sphere, then rod, then repeat. The arcano technician level 6 enhancement gives you1 temporary spell point when casting, which makes those spells cost= 4, 5, 1 mana for a total of 10 mana of maximized, empowered, quickened, heightened, and enlarged (motes) spells! You should start every room casting those 3, then always a tactical detonation afterward. Keep casting those 3 followed by a tactical detonation until all the mobs are knocked prone.


    Mobs immune to lightning is where you burn allot of mana as those mobs you have to use prismatic strike and a acid etc. runearm, but don't forget your repeater! You bring amazing crowd control to your EE groups as trip works on a TON of mobs, and tripped mobs are easy for meele to beat on. Your dps on non-electric immune mobs is also amazing, and on immune mobs you are still contributing with your repeater and runearm to a lesser degree.


    As for DCs, here is my breakdown=

    Int =
    Base 18
    Level ups 6
    Item 8
    Exceptional item 1
    Insight 3
    Magister ED int 6 (you don't need spell pen, most of tree is junk, pump int)
    Tome 4 (they sell +4sin ddo store)
    Artificer capstone 2
    Arcanotechnician enhancment 2
    Battle engineer enhancement 2
    Yugo pot 2
    Total= 54 (22 to DC, 23 with ship buff)

    Evocation DC=
    Base 10
    Int 22
    Evocation focus 1
    Greater evocation focus 1
    Epic evocation focus 1
    Stormreavers cloak 2
    Arcane technician enhancement 1
    Magister ED 3
    Draconic ED twist 2
    Heightened spell 6 (SLAs all heightened for free, tactical detonation already lvl 6)
    Total= 49 (50 with ship, 69-70 after double debuff)


    Will this build be able to do as big damage as some sorc builds? No. But then again if you wanted to make a max dps character whose dps works against every mob in the game then you would make a divine disciple using light spells and exalted angel, sad thing is the group would expect you to heal the gimpier meele dps. This build will be quite fun however, provide high dps to group, and great CC in EEs, not to mention other casters dps will go up due to the debuffed reflex saves.
    Making DDO a better game 1 post at a time!

    Triple EVERYTHING Completionist= Heroic 39/39, Iconic 12/12, Epic 36/36

  5. #5
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    SLAs on artificer are good, but short effective. An arty can work well against everything in the game, but does not excel in any of them. I just think you can't go on spamming slas and tactical detonation or prismatics when soloing a EE quest for long, and only a few quests on EE can be done effectively spamming those if you run on some pots. Also the Debuffs from draconic and magister -10 reflex and -10 lightning don't work on red names, a few orange and raid boss and some standard mobs also. You also lose awesome damage from shiradi on spells range and will miss eventually on spellpower which are more suited for long runs like solo EE. I have now 50 base dc on shiradi, no yugo pot because i am human and don't wear xtra 50% fort, even warfordged would have trouble to compensate it. So i decided to lose those debuffs because they didnt work everywhere... (not saying that they are not useful... they just are'nt steady) That said... that doesnt fix the low base dc which you compensate being magister...

    SLAs works exceptionally well on trash mobs in normal, some eh and epic explorers... Very useful also for fast mass dps on all difficulty.

    But overall, being specialised in 1 thing doesnt make the artificer a good pure caster. Being able to manipulate many elements, force, fire, sonic, electric, ice, acid but lacking the options to do spellcasting with different rune-arms effectively, low spell point pool, high cost on spells even with reduction on enhancements on test server, very low transmutation dc, crazy bad implement of drunken pot trowing even on test server, the deconstruct spell dc is so low it is useless... A lot of features are left aside on spellcasting... I mean shiradi, or magister are good, but they do not represent the class of artificer in anyway, at this point when you decide to play an artificer... you see many options, but a few really works, you mostly pick half of two destinies.

    In one sentence, my message would be resumed by: The artificer lack some polish and the dc is largely lower than other pure caster classes, especially for the general use of the class skills, abilities and spells on EE.

    What would be nice is that there could be more working possibilities, proper and different types of functioning runearms, spells and skills.

    That is all... All said... I LOVE the ARTIFICER!
    Last edited by maitremechant; 07-11-2013 at 06:53 PM.

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