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Thread: Bard/fighter

  1. #1
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    Default Bard/fighter

    Hey all im looking at doing up a bard/fighter splash, focus on buffs and dps for the most part, survivability etc all good too. Going dwarf for the dwarven axe and boost to saves, looking at going TWF obviously. Anyway ive made up an idea of the class thus far just wanted to see what other people think of it and any advice they might have to improve it

    Level 20 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
    (6 Fighter / 14 Bard)
    Hit Points: 366
    Spell Points: 507
    BAB: 16/16/21/26/26
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 16
    Will: 15

    Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
    (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
    Strength 16 21 22
    Dexterity 16 20 20
    Constitution 16 19 21
    Intelligence 8 11 11
    Wisdom 8 11 11
    Charisma 12 17 18

    Tomes Used
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 13
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 13
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 13
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 13
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 13
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 13

    Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
    Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
    Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
    Balance 7 25 29
    Bluff 1 4 4
    Concentration 3 7 7
    Diplomacy 1 4 4
    Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
    Haggle 1 4 4
    Heal -1 3.5 3.5
    Hide 3 5 5
    Intimidate 1 4 12
    Jump 5 13 13
    Listen -1 0 0
    Move Silently 3 5 5
    Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
    Perform 5 27 27
    Repair -1 0 0
    Search -1 0 2
    Spot 1 3.5 3.5
    Swim 5 11 11
    Tumble n/a n/a n/a
    Use Magic Device 5 27 27

    Level 1 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Swim (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I

    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Perform (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

    Level 3 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Spell (1): Focusing Chant
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I

    Level 4 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Swim (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (1): Remove Fear
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I

    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Skill: Perform (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

    Level 6 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Spell (2): Blur
    Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

    Level 7 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
    Spell (2): Heroism
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II

    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+0.5)
    Skill: Swim (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I

    Level 9 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    Spell (2): Rage
    Spell (3): Haste
    Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II

    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I

    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II

    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Skill: Perform (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Spell (3): Good Hope
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II

    Level 13 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+3)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II

    Level 14 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (3): Displacement
    Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
    Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

    Level 15 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Swim (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Spell (4): Neutrralize Poison
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III

    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II

    Level 17 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1.5)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (4): Break Enchantment
    Spell (5): Greater Heroism
    Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV

    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Skill: Perform (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II

    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Skill: Perform (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I

    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Spell (5): Shadow Walk
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


    anyway thanks in advance for any and all feedback
    Last edited by l0rddan; 08-09-2013 at 03:51 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    In such a split, i would go kensei instead. Anyway, maybe 16/4 is more useful to you, as it grants same BAB, access to Inspire Excellence, Mass Cure Moderate and Otto's Irresistible Dance, as well as a better spell penetration.

    I would suggest you to leave cha at 6-8 and put no more points into it during leveling. Cha only gives you more sp, as your DC would be low anyways. I think you could start with 18 str this way. Also, try to put as many ability raises into strenght as you can. Drop Force of Personality.

    Power Critical is a poor choice, drop it and take Weapon Specialization instead: it works on every attack. Dodge is not so bad, but Great Cleave is much better.

    Hope it helps.
    PS: remember, enhancement pass is coming, so I would wait until then before creating a new toon.

  3. #3
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    why the kensei choice? I was tossing up between the two and just thought the stalwart defender gave me better bonuses for ac and health while in stance, and could flick an expedious retreat to make up for the 10% slower movement while in said stance. The 18 strength bit is a good idea though may take a look at that, and noted about the power critical, wasn't really sure what to take there. thanks for the feedback

  4. #4
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    also when I think about it I had the charisma for the saves from force of personality to boost the otherwise weak looking will saves.

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Some of the bonuses from SD stance are about to become S&B-only, unfortunately. I also don't like bard builds which stop at lvl 14, because you miss out on Inspire Heroics (lvl 15 song), Inspire Excellence (epic feat / song, +2 to all stats, req's bard 15+), and lvl 6 spells (MCMW, Heroes Feast, and Otto's Irresistible are all good options).

    I haven't decided if the higher-level bard abilities we're finally getting in the Enhancement overhaul are worthwhile; so I'm still fond of the classic bard 16 / rog 2 / ftr 2 combo. Especially since your Reflex saves should be pretty good (high base DEX + bard lvls + dwarven spell defense + Greater Heroism), making Evasion pretty dang useful.

  6. #6
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Kensei gives: +1 to hit, damage, tactical DC, ref saves, +2 to confirm criticals and critical damage (before multipliers) and 1 more action boost per rest.
    Compared to Stalwart, you're a bit less tanky but to me bonuses it gives seem more valuable in a DPS perspective. Also, 10% speed penalty hurts more than one would think: you would be 20% slower than a barbarian, this means he will start killing before you can get there.

    Moreover, you're a dwarf and have fighter levels, so you're a perfect candidate for making good use of tactical feats. Maybe you could consider making space for Stunning Blow, and taking dwarf and ftr enhancements to DC. This way kensei would be even more valuable to you.

    About Force of Personality, your will save will be low anyway. In order to gain 5 will, you're sacrificing one feat slot, 6 initial stat points, and 2 raise points while leveling. You don't gain anything else, I don't think it's a good investment.

  7. #7
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    kensei's gonna give you the stuff now. Unless you wanna slap a shield in your hand. Was ****ed cause I did the same thing and got an extra 150 hp. But, with the rework and those racial tree's id gladly give that hp up for that sick dmg that that axe wields now.

    I did my cuttoff at lv 12 bard.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  8. #8
    Community Member NovaNZ's Avatar
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    Hail I0rddan

    'Fraid I gotta agree with taking more than 14 lvl bard.

    Im running playing with bard16/ftr2/rog2. with enhancement pass - I tried WC focus first - really missed Sp regeneration.
    Changed enhancements to SS and build it Dex based TWF - much better overall for me anyways.

    Here is something to consider. Will try this out my main
    Dex based Bard 15 (SS with some WC enhancements), Rog 3 (acrobat for Q-staff, assassin etc), Ranger 2 (feats, and dex to weapon damage and feats).

    weapon finesse, TWF chain, imp crit pierce, emp heal, and Extend initially changed out to another feat at higher levels.

    This would work well in fatesinger, or primal avatar or Fury.

    GL
    Quote Originally Posted by DawnofEntropy View Post
    Who wouldn't want to see Flizik the dwarf jamming to 'Devil went down to georgia' and smoking a pipe ...

  9. #9
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaNZ View Post
    Here is something to consider. Will try this out my main
    Dex based Bard 15 (SS with some WC enhancements), Rog 3 (acrobat for Q-staff, assassin etc), Ranger 2 (feats, and dex to weapon damage and feats).

    weapon finesse, TWF chain, imp crit pierce, emp heal, and Extend initially changed out to another feat at higher levels.
    Ranger 2 doesn't provide dex to damage, you need ranger 6 and tempest core.

    EDIT: I'm wrong
    Last edited by mezzorco; 08-24-2013 at 07:03 AM.

  10. #10
    The Hatchery Urist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    Ranger 2 doesn't provide dex to damage, you need ranger 6 and tempest core.
    There's a tier 2 enhancement in the DWS tree - Improved Weapon Finesse (IIRC) - that lets you use dex for damage with any finessable weapon, if you have the Weapon Finesse feat.

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