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  1. #1
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    Default DPS Paladin/Ranger/Monk

    Hi all I am new and im sure this has been discussed before

    Im looking towards the Paladin/Ranger/Monk build

    First question is what armor is to be worn on this type of toon.... if i put anything heavier than a robe i get the inbalance warning...granted at the stage im at im only 2nd level. just picked up my first level of ranger...so monk 1 ranger 1


    Im just looking to build a TWF Paladin, put some ranger in there to get tempest ill have access to 32 pt build as well

    Thank you for your time

    Nickadeemous

  2. #2
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    I have a Bladeforged that I tried out this build with, he is level 16 right now. Pally 8/Ranger 6/Monk 2.

    To be honest, he's okay but not optimal. I took Tempest and Hunter of the Dead. The problem is that deep splashing the ranger really cut into any good paladin strengths. So while it's okay for heroic content there are better builds.

    As for armor, in my case the monk level 2 was just for evasion and a feat. I wear light armor so I am never centered, but I can evade.

    EDIT - Correction, I took Mithral Body, which is the same as light armor.

  3. #3
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickadeemous View Post
    Im just looking to build a TWF Paladin, put some ranger in there to get tempest
    if you just want to build a twf dps toon with these 3 classes, I would probably go with 12 ranger 6 monk 2 pally
    if you're dead set on a pally icon and tempest, that leaves you with only 2 possible (reasonable) builds
    1. 12 pally / 6 ranger / 2 monk
    2. 8 pally / 6 ranger / 6 monk

    take your pick

    hope this helps.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I have a Bladeforged that I tried out this build with, he is level 16 right now. Pally 8/Ranger 6/Monk 2.

    To be honest, he's okay but not optimal. I took Tempest and Hunter of the Dead. The problem is that deep splashing the ranger really cut into any good paladin strengths. So while it's okay for heroic content there are better builds.

    As for armor, in my case the monk level 2 was just for evasion and a feat. I wear light armor so I am never centered, but I can evade.

    EDIT - Correction, I took Mithral Body, which is the same as light armor.
    Do I even really need the monk levels at all? I could just go Paladin/ranger?

  5. #5
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickadeemous View Post
    Do I even really need the monk levels at all? I could just go Paladin/ranger?
    You could. You would trade off evasion (rangers don't get it until L9) and a couple of feats. You would get a L14 Pal (I assume you want more paladin) a level 4 spell, and your LOH/Smites would be a bit better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    You could. You would trade off evasion (rangers don't get it until L9) and a couple of feats. You would get a L14 Pal (I assume you want more paladin) a level 4 spell, and your LOH/Smites would be a bit better.
    Level pally 4 spells like zeal...is that good enough to trade off the two Monk levels?

  7. #7
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickadeemous View Post
    Level pally 4 spells like zeal...is that good enough to trade off the two Monk levels?
    IMO a lot of the level 4 pally spells are very nice. Death Ward, CSW (with pally devotion enh etc. can cure a lot), Restoration, Holy Sword, and Zeal are all good. Are they worth evasion and 2 feats? Play style like group vs. solo, heavy armor vs. light armor and evasion, hireling or no hireling, etc. all come into the equation. It's pretty much up to the individual. IMO it works fine either way.

    I think the real problem with this build (after using it myself) is the deep ranger splash. The TWF and bow feats you get (including dodge bonuses) are very nice, but the paladin abilities really never get good enough for higher level content. Like I said, it works, it's just not ideal. It's really trying to do too much I guess, and thereby suffering from mediocrity in most of the stuff it wants to accomplish.

    Looking at the wiki, the sweet spot for a Paladin seems to be L15, which is hard to accomplish with any kind of deep splash. That's what Paladin 18/something2 or Paladin 16/something2/something2 is more popular I guess.
    Last edited by Fedora1; 07-10-2013 at 05:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    IMO a lot of the level 4 pally spells are very nice. Death Ward, CSW (with pally devotion enh etc. can cure a lot), Restoration, Holy Sword, and Zeal are all good. Are they worth evasion and 2 feats? Play style like group vs. solo, heavy armor vs. light armor and evasion, hireling or no hireling, etc. all come into the equation. It's pretty much up to the individual. IMO it works fine either way.

    I think the real problem with this build (after using it myself) is the deep ranger splash. The TWF and bow feats you get (including dodge bonuses) are very nice, but the paladin abilities really never get good enough for higher level content. Like I said, it works, it's just not ideal. It's really trying to do too much I guess, and thereby suffering from mediocrity in most of the stuff it wants to accomplish.

    Looking at the wiki, the sweet spot for a Paladin seems to be L15, which is hard to accomplish with any kind of deep splash. That's what Paladin 18/something2 or Paladin 16/something2/something2 is more popular I guess.
    So what would you recamend? I like the pally class and I want to do TWF I don't mind dropping the ranger..so what splash and level of the splash would you go?

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    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Well Ranger 2 would give you the feats Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, and TWF w/o the DEX requirement.

    A splash of Fighter 2 would give you 2 bonus feats (one of which could be TWF as long as you have a 15 DEX), and access to Haste Boost and Fighter Strength 1 enhancements.

    A splash of Monk 2 gives you 2 bonus feats (again you can take TWF here if you have 15 DEX) and evasion if you wear light armor (or robes).

    A splash of Rogue 2 (taken at level 1 and 8) gives you evasion, sneak attack, and UMD (and you can even work locks into the mix if your INT allows enough skill points). This build is a little more tight on feats though.

    This would also allow you to take the third tier of a Paladin PrE (HoD , Defender, or KoC) as a L18 Pally (when you hit character level 20).
    Last edited by Fedora1; 07-10-2013 at 08:53 AM.

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    Fedora posted a nice breakdown. 6+ ranger really isn't worth it as a splash in this case unless you're trying to fit in a ranged option. 2 fighter is nice but really only a recommended splash if you're going Defender of Siberys (free tower shield proficiency helps there). 2 rogue makes things rough as far as feats go. If I were going to do a 2 level splash on a paladin it would be 2 monk - evasion on a high saves class, 2 extra feats that we need (TWF + Toughness), the option to use handwraps when appropriate, stances if you go centered (can be really nice for healing amp).

    If you're looking seriously at Hunter of the Dead and a 2 level monk split gives some thought to Half Elf with Monk Dilettante.

    Healing Amp
    1.2 Half-Elf Amp
    1.2 Monk Amp
    1.1 HotD 1
    1.1 HotD 2
    1.1 HotD 3
    1.1 Ship Buff
    1.1 Item
    1.2 Item
    1.3 Item
    361% healing

    And if you want to max out the Lol's
    1.25 Jidz'tetka Fire Stance (must be centered)
    452% healing

    At those kind of numbers cure serious wounds becomes massively powerful. With the 2 extra feats from monk we can probably fit in Empower Healing to pump that up even more if we want. Feats could be whatever you felt like doing but I'm partial to getting Overwhelming Critical so Toughness, TWF, iTWF, gTWF, PA, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical: Whatever you're using, Empower Healing, Overwhelming Critical, and then maybe Quicken at the tail end before you start doing EE's.
    Tajawuka 9 monk/8 ranger/3 arti AA (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  11. #11
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    That build I mentioned works equally well with THF style if you prefer that.
    Tajawuka 9 monk/8 ranger/3 arti AA (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    That build I mentioned works equally well with THF style if you prefer that.
    Thank you all for your help, you gave me some good advice for my journey

  13. #13

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    15 pally levels get you zeal (10% doublestrike that can be kept going 24/7) and cure serious, which can be jacked up to several hundred hp per cast. The rest aren't nearly as good. Deathward is almost completely wasted on a HotD pally, for example.

    Leaving 5 levels to play with, the first inclination would be something like 3 monk/2 fighter for a whopping 4 extra feats. It's hard to argue against such a combo.

    If you want furyshot you'll want both bow strength and rapid shot, meaning a 2 ranger splash is worth the same two feats that 2 fighter is. 2 Ranger also gives TWF, so if you want a TWF character with furyshot capability then 2 ranger is the best "bang for you buck" possible for 2 levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I think the real problem with this build (after using it myself) is the deep ranger splash. The TWF and bow feats you get (including dodge bonuses) are very nice, but the paladin abilities really never get good enough for higher level content. Like I said, it works, it's just not ideal. It's really trying to do too much I guess, and thereby suffering from mediocrity in most of the stuff it wants to accomplish.
    You may want to look at this thread: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/412000-Pyrene-the-Endgame-Paladin

    The Pyrene is one of the most powerful hybrid builds out there. Capable of soloing EEs, tanking and providing outstanding dps. It's a 15paladin/3Ranger/2Monk or alternatively a 14paladin/4ranger/2monk.

    With regards to level 4 spells, Zeal is the only invaluable one. CSW is very nice, especially while leveling. In epic levels you have access to Rejuvenation Cocoon, and from personal experience seldom need to cast CSW. All the other spells are easily replaced by scrolls (Restoration), clickies (Deathward) or decent gear (holy sword).
    Last edited by nni; 07-11-2013 at 03:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    15 pally levels get you zeal (10% doublestrike that can be kept going 24/7) and cure serious, which can be jacked up to several hundred hp per cast. The rest aren't nearly as good. Deathward is almost completely wasted on a HotD pally, for example.

    Leaving 5 levels to play with, the first inclination would be something like 3 monk/2 fighter for a whopping 4 extra feats. It's hard to argue against such a combo.

    If you want furyshot you'll want both bow strength and rapid shot, meaning a 2 ranger splash is worth the same two feats that 2 fighter is. 2 Ranger also gives TWF, so if you want a TWF character with furyshot capability then 2 ranger is the best "bang for you buck" possible for 2 levels.
    I do want TWF..a good ranged bow backup wouldn't be bad so maybe 16 Pally, 2 Ranger 2 Monk?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickadeemous View Post
    I do want TWF..a good ranged bow backup wouldn't be bad so maybe 16 Pally, 2 Ranger 2 Monk?
    or if there is nothing after level 15 really for a pally...15 Pally, 2 Ranger, 2 Monk..that leaves 1 for something else

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickadeemous View Post
    I do want TWF..a good ranged bow backup wouldn't be bad so maybe 16 Pally, 2 Ranger 2 Monk?
    That works and would be good.

    I'd study what level 3 of ranger or monk gives you and see if that's worth more than what pally 16 gives you. Monk 3 is pretty nice if you intend to stay centered, but if not I'm not seeing a ton better than 16 pally. (A little extra duration on divine favor & zeal is a tangible benefit.)

    EDIT: I should point out that 14 pally is also viable; you can twist rejuvenation cocoon to be your primary healing with cure moderate as a backup. Cure serious is better, of course, but if there's something great out there then 14 pally is serviceable. 13 pally levels is generally pointless, though; any fewer than 14 means pally 2 is really all that's worth taking.

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    i think a twf toon with ranged and healing capabilties would be feat starved. you msot likely need to leave empower healing and quicken spell behind.

    im personally running a twf pally 15, monk3, fighter 2 without a ranged option. hunter of dead 2 at the moment. i really wouldnt want to miss my empower healing and quicken spell for the rejuv. cocon. 4 lay on hands are nice but only keep you alive for a short time.

    this is why i think when you want to have ranged and good self healing, you should go with the pyrene build and stay thf where you dont have to take the thf feats.

    i also think thf without the feats should be nerfed severly because its not fair towards the twf fighting types that have to take 3 feats to make any decent damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    That works and would be good.

    I'd study what level 3 of ranger or monk gives you and see if that's worth more than what pally 16 gives you. Monk 3 is pretty nice if you intend to stay centered, but if not I'm not seeing a ton better than 16 pally. (A little extra duration on divine favor & zeal is a tangible benefit.)

    EDIT: I should point out that 14 pally is also viable; you can twist rejuvenation cocoon to be your primary healing with cure moderate as a backup. Cure serious is better, of course, but if there's something great out there then 14 pally is serviceable. 13 pally levels is generally pointless, though; any fewer than 14 means pally 2 is really all that's worth taking.
    what do you lose by not being centered as a monk?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickadeemous View Post
    what do you lose by not being centered as a monk?
    Monk 3 gets you light / dark path, letting you use their atks & finishers; light for the buffs & FoL would be my choice. But that requires using ki weapons & no armor to stay centered; and last time I checked, Smite / Sacrifice were bugged w/handwraps.

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