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  1. #101
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    It does seem like people should have to actually quest for the things that they want. Having a large number of people running the quests for more than a week or two after the content out is a very good thing for the game. As was seen with the current model, quite a few people came back for Update 17. They ran the epic Gianthold stuff for 3-5 weeks, and then promptly vanished from DDO again. Anything that they did not pull they were able to trade whatever items the had pulled for very easily, leaving them no reason to stick around with so much of the game (Cap increase, Enhancement Trees, TRing, etc) being up in the air.
    it may have been talked about back when EGH came out, but we didn't know any of the details behind it like we do now. we knew the new enhancements were eventually coming and maybe cap increase this year, but no date was confirmed. we have known more about whats coming this year in the past month or so than we did back in February.

  2. #102
    Community Member LeadHeros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    1. Disable death penalty to effect an entire group (as well as reentry)

    2. Give better xp for higher level quests

    3. Remove BB while providing more xp for first time bonuses

    4. Give the ability to "pull" a player into the quest as it takes way too long to explain to a new player where the quest is situated.
    I have the 'flower sniffer' mind set. I play for the journey, not the end.

    1. In theory, the BONUS provides some incentive for the more capable players to support the new/weaker.

    2. Yes. And the xp/min or xp/ease of completion' should be closer together. This might promote a larger variety of quests being run. On the other hand, players who can do a life in a month or 2 (this boggles my mind) would complete faster, and Turbine wants people logged on (or buying stones) so that isn't in their best interest.

    3. Abstain, I'm not a TR.

    4. Like 'bracelet of friends'? But if you never had to go to quest givers, there is less incentive to learn the quests, and less of a 'real world feel'.

    The LFM does offer everything people need to group; if you want to. I see a lot of BYOH, zerg etc; and I know I am not going to contribute to those groups. The players who complete a quest in 10 minutes, that would take my level of player an hour are not going to want me with them, and they are probably in the best position to find groups. Be explicit in your quest description and don't join a group that you don't fit into. And this goes both ways. The newer/casual people are going to have to step up and start groups that say; non-zerg, don't know it, and the zergers should not join. When that happens, the newer/casuals can find a network of like minded players. There is a very large gap in power/ability between Fejjj and I, yet the same game has to accommodate us both. The rude and immature will have to be dealt with as best we can.

    I like scaling since it 'should' make the effort the same for any size party.
    Last edited by LeadHeros; 07-11-2013 at 06:53 PM.
    No Char left behind; original join date, Oct 2010

  3. #103
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    Maybe a neutral term like "Fast" could be added as a flag to LFM postings, with a corresponding filtering checkbox so people looking for "Fast" quests with the box checked won't show non-Fast quests as eligible even. It wouldn't be perfect, but would be more polite to tell someone they shouldn't have checked that box, and more justifiable to tell others that they should've.

  4. #104
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    It does seem like people should have to actually quest for the things that they want. Having a large number of people running the quests for more than a week or two after the content out is a very good thing for the game. As was seen with the current model, quite a few people came back for Update 17. They ran the epic Gianthold stuff for 3-5 weeks, and then promptly vanished from DDO again. Anything that they did not pull they were able to trade whatever items the had pulled for very easily, leaving them no reason to stick around with so much of the game (Cap increase, Enhancement Trees, TRing, etc) being up in the air.
    From what I've seen in this thread it seems that the consensus is that Epic Gear should NEVER be Auctionable i.e. BtCoA
    BUT
    That for lower levels this isn't an issue!

    I'd like to go somewhat further and ask the Devs what the heck they were thinking when they decided Min Lvl 1-10 gear should be Bind to CHARACTER on Equip / Acquire?

    DDO positively pushes multiple characters per account {and the multiple character accounts are definitely spending more per player than single/two-four character accounts {yes there's a lot more of the second type}.

    Bound to Account also incentivises the acquiring of the Shared Bank {more money for Turbine}!

    When I joined DDO back in 2010 BtC was a necessary Evil BUT it has since become ubiquitous! Even when items quite obviously don't have the power to deserve it!

    BtCoE was a nice idea in theory BUT again it has been totally overused {there are simply so many Lacerating items in the game {ALL BtCoE!} that AHing them takes forever even at barely over Vendor prices!}.

    BtCoE has been used on Random loot - A Huge Mistake as you get some BtCoE items that are vendor trash!

    AN EXAMPLE:

    Tempest Spine Loot was upgraded - Some very nice upgrades too {others could easily be consider a downgrade though - Yes I'm looking at Maelstrom!}.
    BUT this is NOT End-Game!
    Lvl 8-12 Loot {Sands incl.} SHOULD NOT be so ridiculously hard to get!
    P.S. Every time I run TS I get items I can't use {I put them up for roll and it's a SURPRISE if anyone rolls - Usually first to ask gets on End Chest as he/she will be the only one NOT recalling out!}.
    On the other hand ABSOLUTELY EVERYBODY rolls on items like the Goggles of Perception!

    Now...
    With the old Tempest Spine loot - It could be hard to acquire - I've rarely seen ANYTHING drop in there before the upgrades!
    BUT
    It was available on the AH {Usually at OK Prices - though sometimes Overpriced yeah}
    AND
    With new TS being BtCoA this is an impossibility!
    BASICALLY
    You've made acquiring this gear HARDER rather than EASIER {Which I believe was your stated goal at the time} - Epic Fail there!


    What you have succeeded in doing is getting OVER-LEVELLED Players to FARM the Heck out of a Lvl 10 Raid to grab loot for their NEXT TR!

    So - Epic Levels cuts out the Lvl 20s running VoN 5 Heroic just to get into E-VoN 6 {and ADQ1 for ADQ2 though I'm not sure if this has stopped}
    BUT
    That's alright cos now they can FARM TS Instead?

    There's INSANE amounts of XP available at Lvl 9-15!
    Run TS more than twice and you're basically losing XP elsewhere!
    Frankly once on Elite and done is enough for 1st and 2nd Life Characters!



    KEEP BTC for END-GAME ONLY!
    Use your INITIATIVE for Lvls 14-19
    BTA for Lvls 4-13
    NO BINDING WHATSOEVER for Lvls 1-3 - There's simply no longer any point!

    OH and LOSE BtCoE! It's been a MASSIVE MISTAKE!



    One more option:

    Soloers and Groups that are known to each other aren't going to be HURTING ANYBODY by looting whatever they want - Allow us to mark our Groups as
    Lootable
    OR
    Non-Lootable
    OR
    As Is!

    Lootable = NOTHING is BTC whatsoever - EVERYTHING is BTA on ACQUIRE {Goes for NAMED items and SPECIAL Loot - Tomes, GS Ings and the Like - ONLY}.
    ALL LOOT IS PARTY LOOT!
    Party Leader can be given the option to distribute Loot as per PnP as Everyone in Group will have signed up for this!
    OR
    Everyone in Party is given a Roll and Players pick one item each {Highest Roll first etc.} till all items are taken! {if player drops out/leaves quest NEXT player carries on!}.


    Non-Lootable = EVERYTHING {Named and Special} is BTC on ACQUIRE!}
    Rolling on items in Chest is allowed BUT is done by IN-GAME ROLL with Person item dropped for marking said item as "Up for Roll"
    That person then has absolutely NO say over who gets said item - ANYONE Who wants it can Roll and the AI assigns the Item to The Highest Roll!
    IF NO-One Rolls - Item is Re-assigned to the NEXT Party to Open said Chest! {ADDED not REPLACING Anything!}.


    As Is = No change from how DDO Distributes loot as is!

  5. #105
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Remove scaling on elite.
    /signed

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art20/Epic8/Epic8 -> Rng20/Epic10 -> Drd6),
    Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic8/Epic10->Sorc(EK)17)

  6. #106
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    1. Remove scaling on elite (and set difficult for 4 players party)
    2. Auto share on joining the LFM
    3. Auto set journal to party quest just shared

    this can be start point

  7. #107
    Hatchery Hero Inthuul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    It does seem like people should have to actually quest for the things that they want. Having a large number of people running the quests for more than a week or two after the content out is a very good thing for the game. As was seen with the current model, quite a few people came back for Update 17. They ran the epic Gianthold stuff for 3-5 weeks, and then promptly vanished from DDO again. Anything that they did not pull they were able to trade whatever items the had pulled for very easily, leaving them no reason to stick around with so much of the game (Cap increase, Enhancement Trees, TRing, etc) being up in the air.
    I sincerely hope that items are not the only reason that people run particular content. If that's the general case, some other design goals may need to be looked at.

  8. #108
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthuul View Post
    I sincerely hope that items are not the only reason that people run particular content. If that's the general case, some other design goals may need to be looked at.
    Of course not... most content is actualy run for XP.

    /sigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  9. #109
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    Give XP bonus for each player in group.

    Done.

    -Ozmar the Simple Solver
    I can has no signature. Alas!

  10. #110
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Get your heads out of the idealistic sand.

    Loot is the reason stuff gets run REPEATEDLY.


    Not talking 10x for XP, talking 100s of times.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 07-12-2013 at 09:10 AM.

  11. #111
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Add incentives/remove obsticles for having a full party

    -Remove dungeon Scaling. balance quest for a full party.. deal with it. solo at your own risk.

    -Full party chest Loot bonus

    -Balanced Party XP bonus ( no 2 or more same primary classes in group) small bonus to not greatly discourage non-optimal parties.

    -xp/min is not balanced, Turbine needs to do a historical analysis on average completion times for quests.. adjust XP so longer quests reward more.

    -Additional Bonus Loot/XP for completing all available optionals/objectives in quest.

    -Random quest bonux XP days - take random quests that have low attendance and periodically give them a day event super bonus, like xp or a bonus end chest with super high drop rates for non-standard goodies like ddo store stuff, unique skins/pets, shards, dopants, non-bugged uber items like the no-min level bta +4 stat rings that used to drop in Lordsmarch , whatever....show me the eye candy.... stuff that makes me go... oohhh i want that....
    Jotmon -
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200
    Argo-Jotmon(HC 28/42,EC 26/36,IC 17/15,RC 14/30), Jotlock(HC 38/42,EC 36/36,IC 15/15, RC 0/30)..
    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Too bad I 'purchased' maximum character slots for my account, SSG has now chosen to cater the giveaway perks to benefit multiple freebie accounts instead of the paying customers.

  12. #112
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthuul View Post
    I sincerely hope that items are not the only reason that people run particular content. If that's the general case, some other design goals may need to be looked at.
    Here is the basic truth about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Get your heads out of the idealistic sand.

    Loot is the reason stuff gets run REPEATEDLY.


    Not talking 10x for XP, talking 100s of times.
    That said the problem you and the other idealists have is that you are looking at it from pnp perspectives not an mmo. MMO's are not pnp and never will be. Loot is the primary motivator for endgame quests. Yeah some quests are fun as well, but a fun quest that doesn't have good loot tends to not be ran. Look at TOD, most everyone agree's that it's a fun raid, and when the loot was relevant it was run all the time. Now it's ran once in a blue moon for kicks. It's still a fun raid, but with no loot that is useful to most everyone it just isn't ran now. Loot is the motivator for mmo's and always will be regardless of how fun a quest is.

  13. #113
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    Why do people wait for a full party to do raids.

    It would be a lot easier to short man them for a lot of players.

    There is an incentive to have a full party for raids. Better chance for named loot to drop if more people are in the group. The loot is bound to character so a lot of loot is up for roll.

    No one seems to have a problem with raids having an incentive for more people.

    So we know they could make incentives to grouping to work if they wanted too. They will have to find a way to spin grouping as a good thing.

    I do not think Turbine wants to make an incentive for grouping with non-raid content.

    People who predominately solo will look at bonuses to grouping as a punishment for their play style. Sense they will not get the bonus they will complain. Why should I have to group with people when I don’t want to.

    Turbine just doesn’t want to deal with this.

    I am so glad that the competition for MMO’S is ratcheting up and DDO is going to have to step up to the plate and go in directions they are uncomfortable with to keep up.

    Hopefully incentives to grouping will be one of them.

  14. #114
    Community Member Nahiz's Avatar
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    Default Knowledge is key

    IMHO, pugs are useful mainly to newbies and casual players (in small guilds). Vets and ubers (even any player in big/active guilds) don´t get much from pugs in most situations. But everybody, from newbies to ubers, would pug more if they were able to set an LFM according to their playing style.

    To diminish the "chocolate box" effect of surprise, LFM panels should include a simple set of choices to precise the playing style of the pug party. Yes, you can type "BYOH, zerg, flower sniffer" or whatever, but this categories tend to be unknown for most newbies/casuals and they are not clear enough. There are many threads explaining what BYOH means, from just being able to heal yourself to be uber with top notch gear, know the quest to perfection and supposed to dont die by any chance.

    And, most important, it´s one thing to type whatever you want and another to set formal options on the LFM panel.

    So, upon posting a quest on the LFM panel, the would be leader should be able (but not forced) to choose between some options to let the possible joiners (?) know which kind of playing style is desired. Thinking these "options" is the crucial thing. What i can think of is:

    Knowledge/dedication to the game (you can select one or all, all being the same as none):
    -Newbie/casual/vet/uber or first life/hero/legend/.../completionist and/or mostly unbound/named bta/raid gear ... etc.

    Pace of the run:
    -Learning/medium/fast/zerg

    Knowledge of quest:
    -None/min/good/perfect

    Hirelings
    -Hireling/no hirelings

    Maybe choosing "uber" on the first option is all you need in some cases, but i think the more information, the better. Specially for newbies and casuals.

    There are no perfect solutions, but knowing what kind of pug you are getting into is key.

    BTW, I´m a casual player. A dedicated casual player in a small guild, that is.

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I found this out on Saturday. In a full group (2 guildies and 3 puggers) I think we ran 6 quests in the time it would have taken me to solo 2 of them.
    Yup - that's the reality. For some reason, people on this thread think that forcing people who solo to PUG will solve what ever imagined problem it is they are having. Removing dungeon scaling will only result in people quitting the game. You want to be in a party when you play? JOIN A GUILD. There have been so many insults directed at soloers in this thread, I want to PUG even less.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood View Post
    Yup - that's the reality. For some reason, people on this thread think that forcing people who solo to PUG will solve what ever imagined problem it is they are having. Removing dungeon scaling will only result in people quitting the game. You want to be in a party when you play? JOIN A GUILD. There have been so many insults directed at soloers in this thread, I want to PUG even less.
    From what I have read in this thread, most want dungeon scaling off for elite.

    The biggest problem is xp and the relationship with the BB and streaks. Even soloers want to do elite to start and keep their streaks. The devs put themselves in this bind.

    Guilds are not the problem solver - I am in several guilds across the servers. MAC, on Khyber is one of the largest for example, and it is no guarantee enough players are on and able to group. And guilds have plenty of their own drama.
    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- -10 - -11- -12!! years & still spawning kobolds
    From Turbine to SSG, who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


  17. #117
    Hatchery Hero Inthuul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood View Post
    Yup - that's the reality. For some reason, people on this thread think that forcing people who solo to PUG will solve what ever imagined problem it is they are having. Removing dungeon scaling will only result in people quitting the game. You want to be in a party when you play? JOIN A GUILD. There have been so many insults directed at soloers in this thread, I want to PUG even less.
    I would like to reiterate that the title of the thread is "Ideas to encourage grouping" NOT "Solutions that Turbine needs to implement now to force people to group." or "Solutions to eliminate solo play."

    Frankly, there are many times I like to solo too. I, and I think many other contributors on this thread, only want to increase the DDO population and for Turbine to succeed. Will the ideas in this thread help that? Maybe.

    Not that I can do anything about it, not having forum thread admin, but I have been keeping track of the temperature of this thread. It would be great if everyone could keep contributing without it bursting into flames.

    Thank you to everyone who has participated in this thread thus far!

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood View Post
    Yup - that's the reality. For some reason, people on this thread think that forcing people who solo to PUG will solve what ever imagined problem it is they are having. Removing dungeon scaling will only result in people quitting the game.
    At this point it feels like people who pugs are the ones against the soloers. Is it because their pugs are failing since the good players aren't there? Maybe, maybe not. I also think that since soloing is a big part of the reality of the playerbase, removing that part would hurt much more Turbine then leaving it like it is atm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blood View Post
    You want to be in a party when you play? JOIN A GUILD. There have been so many insults directed at soloers in this thread, I want to PUG even less.
    Guilds are not for everyone. Some good players like to pug, believe it or not, because it's a neccessity... or it's well needed at least to keep the game rollin. Helping is something that can be fun. Also it's refreshing sometimes to fall on good individuals with who you spend a couple hours and enjoy the questing much more. Also there are independant people who just like to log in and do their things without contacting their whole friend/guild list. There are... different reasons to pug.




    I believe it still comes down to people with like-minded playstyle and skills should stick together in their respective difficulty. And I will repeat myself that this is only when it comes to playing with strangers/pugs and not with guildies/friends. The problem is exp. Even the worst player needs it once at 3rd life+ and the "only" effective (no stone/100 xp pots) way to get it is to step in elite quests and keep a streak.

    Maybe difficulty level and xp shouldn't be related, I don't know. But I sure see a problem that just can't be treated by any mechanics that won't restrain people OR change something to the xp required.

    Edit: DDO is the only game in which anyone can get carried in the toughest difficulty without contributing while success will still be ensure by some. What if that difficulty was actually end game. Kind of makes sense with acquiring gears and past lives after multiples TRs.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 07-12-2013 at 05:11 PM.
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  19. #119
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I'd like to go somewhat further and ask the Devs what the heck they were thinking when they decided Min Lvl 1-10 gear should be Bind to CHARACTER on Equip / Acquire?
    That stuff is actually pretty good gear, and I'd keep it around for a new life (especially if I was doing the same life again).

  20. #120
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    From what I can see, it looks like a lot of people are making the assumption that new players PUG, and that might be the crux of the problem.

    I’m not what one would consider a new player, but I like to PUG. Problem is that the PUG scene is not what it used to be. I mean, I get lucky now and again, but for the most part it is pretty hard to find a PUG you know will fill (or come close to it). And there seems to be more issues now with them than before.

    I’ve got a fairly static group now, but I have several alts. This means that – for various reasons – they will remain parked as I will only run one toon with them.

    Vale seems the easiest to find a group for, and a lot of that has to do with the XP it gives out. And you have a fair mix of newer players and experienced ones doing the runs. So, that seems to indicate – to me – that some people are correct that there is XP involved somewhere in this discussion. And if that’s part of the equation, nothing suggested here – aside from a Dev change to XP in other quests – nothing mentioned here will change that.

    PUGs can be fun, or they can be frustrating. I think that if the experienced players are avoiding PUGs to avoid newer players, I think that’s just a shame. There is more to this game then having 17 completionist alts.

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