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  1. #1
    Hatchery Hero Inthuul's Avatar
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    Default Ideas to encourage grouping.

    Starting this thread to attempt to collect ideas for Turbine to encourage grouping. With the ultimate goal of increasing the amount of LFMs available to players.


    I'll start.

    Change the +10% Flawless Victory Bonus to only affect the character who died. Does this encourage teamwork? Maybe not. Does it encourage grouping? Maybe.

    Create a new grouping bonus.
    The leader of the party (most likely the creator of the LFM but not always) could get a +2% experience point bonus for every other player (not hireling) in the group, up to +10% experience for a full party in a normal quest.
    Every player participating in a group that is not the leader could get a +1% experience point bonus for every other player in the group, up to a +5% bonus for a normal quest.
    To keep experience in line, Raids (though grouping is necessary usually) could provide a +1% bonus for every other player in the group up to +11% with no "leader" bonus.

    To encourage grouping outside of guilds or semi-static or static groups there could be an experience bonus for grouping with a player you have never grouped with before or haven't grouped with recently like within 30 days or some other time period.
    This sounds like it could be more difficult to code than the above "grouping bonus" and I would encourage other ideas here.

    For simplicity I will also mention ideas I have already seen;

    Megaserver all players are moved to one server. Anyone with a technological background, feel free to comment on this idea.

    Instanced LFMs that are cross server. Turbine would likely have to implement a way to pull characters directly into a quest from wherever zone they are in and then are placed in an instance of the quest with characters from other servers. This would have economic implications too, allowing items that can be traded to pass between servers. Other challenges would be cross server access to the shard auction house as that can be brought up from the DDO ampersand. (Maybe not in quests? Never tried it.)

    I'm not interested in only discussing why or if LFM postings seem to be more infrequent. This has been discussed in other threads and should only be included here when relevant to the topic.

    Thanks for reading this far. I'm really interested in seeing what the community ideas about this subject are.

    Sol(insert relevant suffix based on character type here)
    Sarlona

  2. #2
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Remove scaling on elite.

  3. #3
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    See even if we dont merge servers lets say. I dont see why grouping can't use 2-3 other servers. So you pick one of the highest and 2 of the smaller ones etc to pool from.


    Ths tactic alone would allow people to play with others from another server and meet new faces. it might increase the lfms as well. Sure there will probably be more drama and new players but hey you never know what you will find in a pug.

  4. #4
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    A rating system that rates each player on a broad spectrum of subjects.

  5. #5
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthuul View Post
    Starting this thread to attempt to collect ideas for Turbine to encourage grouping. With the ultimate goal of increasing the amount of LFMs available to players.


    I'll start.

    Change the +10% Flawless Victory Bonus to only affect the character who died. Does this encourage teamwork? Maybe not. Does it encourage grouping? Maybe.

    Create a new grouping bonus.
    The leader of the party (most likely the creator of the LFM but not always) could get a +2% experience point bonus for every other player (not hireling) in the group, up to +10% experience for a full party in a normal quest.
    Every player participating in a group that is not the leader could get a +1% experience point bonus for every other player in the group, up to a +5% bonus for a normal quest.
    To keep experience in line, Raids (though grouping is necessary usually) could provide a +1% bonus for every other player in the group up to +11% with no "leader" bonus.

    To encourage grouping outside of guilds or semi-static or static groups there could be an experience bonus for grouping with a player you have never grouped with before or haven't grouped with recently like within 30 days or some other time period.
    This sounds like it could be more difficult to code than the above "grouping bonus" and I would encourage other ideas here.

    For simplicity I will also mention ideas I have already seen;

    Megaserver all players are moved to one server. Anyone with a technological background, feel free to comment on this idea.

    Instanced LFMs that are cross server. Turbine would likely have to implement a way to pull characters directly into a quest from wherever zone they are in and then are placed in an instance of the quest with characters from other servers. This would have economic implications too, allowing items that can be traded to pass between servers. Other challenges would be cross server access to the shard auction house as that can be brought up from the DDO ampersand. (Maybe not in quests? Never tried it.)

    I'm not interested in only discussing why or if LFM postings seem to be more infrequent. This has been discussed in other threads and should only be included here when relevant to the topic.

    Thanks for reading this far. I'm really interested in seeing what the community ideas about this subject are.

    Sol(insert relevant suffix based on character type here)
    Sarlona
    while I dont think rocketing up in heroic levels would matter, I cant see turb just giving 5 and 10% bonus's everywhere. I mean theird probably be multi boxing like no tomorrow.

    As far as bonus for grouping outside a guild or with a static group that games together, I cant see that happening either. lol come on thats basically a punishment for having friends/family while gaming.

    The global server thing is sort of on the right idea, ive seen it in a few other games. Basically the game is interlinked through a lfg menu, sort of like how a matchmaking service works on psn or xbox, and people from various servers log into a sort of multiverse dungeon.

    That idea could, and probably would solve all population problems, but on that front I can't see those boys sitting down to set that up in game. Especially when they could fix transfers first and then charge a boatload for transfers.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  6. #6
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    I'm going to take an educated guess and say that 40% of DDO'ers are solo'ers these days, and they will not like bonuses to XP for groups.

    It might also cause people who already sit around for an hour waiting for a group to fill up be even more reluctant to start a quest unless in a full group.

    I know of cases where people left DDO because many of the quests required groups to complete. Actually at the time, (maybe 4 years ago?) some quests were too difficult to solo - obvioulsy that's not the case anymore. I mostly solo, but have been grouping/partying more recently. Except for my Sunday night static group and occasionally grouping with a couple of my guildies I still enjoy solo more, just due to the immersion and doing optionals, etc. I'm not in a race to end-game (yet).

    So I think any time the devs try to force (by way of exclusionary bonuses) a certain type of game play, it has as much negative effect as it does positive. Example from the past - guilds. Recent example - Wayfinder bonus xp.

  7. #7
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    A rating system that rates each player on a broad spectrum of subjects.
    Elaborate.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Elaborate.
    THere's many factors that keep me from joining pugs with unknown people, and a potential loss of ten percent isn't one of them. They include, will this person be a jerk? Will this person want to do all the optionals and break everything, dropping xp/min to a horrible rate? Will this person run this dungeon in a suboptimal manner? I usually end up just deciding things will go better if I don't join the group. In order for me to start grouping with random people, I need something that answers these questions for me. The only thing I can think of would be an elaborate and accurate rating system that rates each toon.

  9. #9
    Hatchery Hero Inthuul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    THere's many factors that keep me from joining pugs with unknown people, and a potential loss of ten percent isn't one of them. They include, will this person be a jerk? Will this person want to do all the optionals and break everything, dropping xp/min to a horrible rate? Will this person run this dungeon in a suboptimal manner? I usually end up just deciding things will go better if I don't join the group. In order for me to start grouping with random people, I need something that answers these questions for me. The only thing I can think of would be an elaborate and accurate rating system that rates each toon.
    Can the issues of jerk players and players not running the quest as you like be solved in a different way other than a rating system?
    Last edited by Inthuul; 07-09-2013 at 11:45 AM.

  10. #10
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    The number one reason that I don't group up more than I currently do is a time related issue. When I solo, especially lower levels, any amount of waiting is time I'm not questing. In general, I'm in a quest for a minute or two. Maybe up to 5 minutes on longer low level quests. There is no point in me putting up an LFM for such a short quest. It doesn't benefit me. That may sound a bit selfish but it's the truth. I'm not getting my quest done any faster or easier by bringing another person along.

    I could put up an LFM such as "Harbor Elite, IP, BYOH" but that's not helping anyone that actually needs the help at that level range and according to many forum posts only serves to frustrate and annoy people anyway.

    If I'm grouping at a low level, it's because I'm going out of my way to help people and don't have any expectations of going quickly. There's the sticky part right there. I may have xp pots running. Pots that I paid money for that dictate that I "should" be running as fast as I can to maximize my xp/$ spent. If I'm slowed down in any way, I'm losing money. Give me a way to stop that pot timer or mitigate my loss by helping out other groups or new players and that's the key to getting me to group up more.

    I'll give a solid mid game example as well. Yesterday, I was farming Litany of the Dead solo for xp. Typically, I hit this at level 16 and it's the only time I usually chug a 50% xp pot. I was also looking to run Fleshmaker (infinitely easier with a group over solo), but the xp/min in Fleshmaker is wretched compared to Litany. A group came up for Fleshmaker while I was between solo runs on Litany, but I didn't want to do it. It would have felt like I was wasting my 50% pot so instead of grouping up, I kept on my solo schedule and will try for Fleshmaker tonight after my pot runs out. This may not be an issue for everyone, but it is for me. That pot timer keeps me to a very specific schedule as does bravery bonus in general. Deviation slows me down and forces me to use extra $ resources to make up for it.
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  11. #11
    Hatchery Hero Inthuul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    while I dont think rocketing up in heroic levels would matter, I cant see turb just giving 5 and 10% bonus's everywhere. I mean theird probably be multi boxing like no tomorrow.

    As far as bonus for grouping outside a guild or with a static group that games together, I cant see that happening either. lol come on thats basically a punishment for having friends/family while gaming.

    The global server thing is sort of on the right idea, ive seen it in a few other games. Basically the game is interlinked through a lfg menu, sort of like how a matchmaking service works on psn or xbox, and people from various servers log into a sort of multiverse dungeon.

    That idea could, and probably would solve all population problems, but on that front I can't see those boys sitting down to set that up in game. Especially when they could fix transfers first and then charge a boatload for transfers.
    I agree that exclusionary bonuses are probably not the best solution.

    Global LFMs have been mentioned three times now (more or less). Could this be the optimal initial LFM increasing design idea?

  12. #12
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    remove dungeon alert

  13. #13
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    THere's many factors that keep me from joining pugs with unknown people, and a potential loss of ten percent isn't one of them. They include, will this person be a jerk? Will this person want to do all the optionals and break everything, dropping xp/min to a horrible rate? Will this person run this dungeon in a suboptimal manner? I usually end up just deciding things will go better if I don't join the group. In order for me to start grouping with random people, I need something that answers these questions for me. The only thing I can think of would be an elaborate and accurate rating system that rates each toon.
    It sounds like you're much better off just soloing.

  14. #14
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    I am fine with Dungeon Alert it's purpose is to reduce zerging speed running and it does so well enough.

    If you want to encourage grouping then you need to remove BB honestly. Since the mechanic was introduced the PUG and group scene has dropped dramatically.

    Removing the -10% for death as a group penalty might be useful but then if that was the case I can just as easily see the people who won't take on a PUG bailing on the others and letting them die in quest because it doesn't have a negative effect on their XP any longer.


  15. #15
    Hatchery Hero Inthuul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    The number one reason that I don't group up more than I currently do is a time related issue. When I solo, especially lower levels, any amount of waiting is time I'm not questing. In general, I'm in a quest for a minute or two. Maybe up to 5 minutes on longer low level quests. There is no point in me putting up an LFM for such a short quest. It doesn't benefit me. That may sound a bit selfish but it's the truth. I'm not getting my quest done any faster or easier by bringing another person along.

    I could put up an LFM such as "Harbor Elite, IP, BYOH" but that's not helping anyone that actually needs the help at that level range and according to many forum posts only serves to frustrate and annoy people anyway.

    If I'm grouping at a low level, it's because I'm going out of my way to help people and don't have any expectations of going quickly. There's the sticky part right there. I may have xp pots running. Pots that I paid money for that dictate that I "should" be running as fast as I can to maximize my xp/$ spent. If I'm slowed down in any way, I'm losing money. Give me a way to stop that pot timer or mitigate my loss by helping out other groups or new players and that's the key to getting me to group up more.

    I'll give a solid mid game example as well. Yesterday, I was farming Litany of the Dead solo for xp. Typically, I hit this at level 16 and it's the only time I usually chug a 50% xp pot. I was also looking to run Fleshmaker (infinitely easier with a group over solo), but the xp/min in Fleshmaker is wretched compared to Litany. A group came up for Fleshmaker while I was between solo runs on Litany, but I didn't want to do it. It would have felt like I was wasting my 50% pot so instead of grouping up, I kept on my solo schedule and will try for Fleshmaker tonight after my pot runs out. This may not be an issue for everyone, but it is for me. That pot timer keeps me to a very specific schedule as does bravery bonus in general. Deviation slows me down and forces me to use extra $ resources to make up for it.
    I'm not sure there is a way to solve the XP pot problem but can the time issues be addressed?

    I see players being slowed by ship buffs and selling and repairing, traveling, and occasionally leveling and banking.
    Could players getting sucked into the dungeon instance once their lfm request is accepted solve some of this?
    You would obviously still want to put IP in your quest notes so as to not waste any XP pot time. As there are already timers in the LFM people applying to your group with a knowledge of how long the quest usually takes might still benefit from grouping with you.

  16. #16
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Hmm, reading the last reply gave me an idea. They have guild reknown potions, what about group xp potions? Instead of a timer, it would give the bonus for that 1 quest to all members of the party. Say 10% or whatever. Non-stacking of course. The leader pops the XP potion then puts up lfm advertising the bonus.

    Lots of ways to expand/refine the idea. Just tossing it out there. Launch the effort by making it a buff reward in the daily silver rolls.
    Last edited by Fedora1; 07-09-2013 at 12:10 PM.

  17. #17
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    If you're VIP when someone enters a quest in your group... it auto shares the quest, and pops up to teleport you in with them.

    (removes stupid travel to quests, to make it EASY to group up.)

    If you're VIP you get a bracelet of friends that recharges every day to summon players to public areas for questing purposes

    (removes stupid travel to quests)

    Remove the "server" concept, and do like secret world again.... have all populations in one group pool, so no matter the "State of the game" there are always people to play with. Make it only VIPs that can server hop infinitely.

    (fixes low pop server issues)

    Add a +1 loot bonus to the chest if you have a full group of PLAYERS only.. Hirelings don't count. (FREE LOOT!!)

    (Doesn't level characters faster, but gives another offset for dungeon scaling that isn't XP)

    Add the ability to kick players from a quest.

    (The current reverse problem is worse, they can stand around and soak XP, and up the dungeon difficulty and you can't do anything but leave group, and reform... Punishing EVERYONE vs, just kicking them out of group / dungeon)


    --------------------------------------------------------

    All of this just makes it "easier" to group, and none of it changes the XP.

    Only 1 suggestion gives "extra" and it isn't XP, it's just loot. 99% of chest loot is vendor trash anyway.

  18. #18
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthuul View Post
    Can the issues of jerk players and players not running the quest as you like be solved in a different way other than a rating system?
    Honestly, Jerk players provide some of the best material for public ridicule.

    "YOU NEVER, EVER STONESKIN A CLERIC!!! NEVAAAARRRRR!!!"

  19. #19
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Significantly increase the drop rates for named/extremely rare items and augments for every additional player in the party, with an additional bonus for full parties comprised of six separate players.


    It's susceptible to multi-boxers, but that's got to be such a small population I don't think it would be a bigger deal than it is now.

  20. #20
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Significantly increase the drop rates for named/extremely rare items and augments for every additional player in the party, with an additional bonus for full parties comprised of six separate players.


    It's susceptible to multi-boxers, but that's got to be such a small population I don't think it would be a bigger deal than it is now.
    Oh I so LOVE this idea. Start a new thread on it, it's that good.

    And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

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