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  1. #21
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
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    Raise the % chance of Rare encounters appearing based on how many people are in group, in both explorer areas and quests.

    I know this won't really matter to the zerging playstyle (might even hurt it a bit in some quests), but it will bring more flower-sniffers together.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    THere's many factors that keep me from joining pugs with unknown people, and a potential loss of ten percent isn't one of them. They include, will this person be a jerk? Will this person want to do all the optionals and break everything, dropping xp/min to a horrible rate? Will this person run this dungeon in a suboptimal manner? I usually end up just deciding things will go better if I don't join the group. In order for me to start grouping with random people, I need something that answers these questions for me. The only thing I can think of would be an elaborate and accurate rating system that rates each toon.
    You don't need answers, you (and I'm betting a number of other players) need to get over your anxiety/control issues/insecurities/fear of screwing up/mic issues or whatever is stopping you from pressing "join" and being civil among other people for an hour or two.

  3. #23
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    THere's many factors that keep me from joining pugs with unknown people, and a potential loss of ten percent isn't one of them. They include, will this person be a jerk? Will this person want to do all the optionals and break everything, dropping xp/min to a horrible rate? Will this person run this dungeon in a suboptimal manner? I usually end up just deciding things will go better if I don't join the group. In order for me to start grouping with random people, I need something that answers these questions for me. The only thing I can think of would be an elaborate and accurate rating system that rates each toon.
    Simple:

    Stick to LFM's that say Zerg, TR Only, BYOH etc.


    On the other hand:

    Know it = I know this quest so you'd better know it too {For those of you who think this means NEED GUIDE - It doesn't}
    Need Guide is also TWO Words - Don't annoy the Elitists by using Know it instead!

    Also - I WON'T join groups that say Know it - I WILL join Groups that say Need Guide!


    Be Self-Sufficient - Seems to be an upgraded BYOH {could also be downgraded but I'm NOT taking the chance} - NOT joining these groups either!


    Flower-Sniffing has negative connotations - Hey I like Exploring Quests BUT I'm not taking 3 or 4 hrs to do so - I'm not interested in XP/Min though.
    Unfortunately it's hard to convey this in LFM speak {Not typing Flower-Sniffing}.

    So as the XP/Min crowd already have their Phrases/Acronyms the simple thing to expect is that ANY LFM that does NOT use said Phrases/Acronyms is NOT going to be looking for XP/Min!


    Finally:
    Pet Peeve...
    Elite BB IP DOES NOT mean Zerg/BYOH - It simply means I've accepted that there's a lot of people who WON'T join groups that aren't already inside the quest and I've adapted to getting started and hoping people will join before I get to the End-Boss!

    I WILL CLEAR as many mobs as I can!
    I WON'T Invis and run straight past the first two or three rooms full of Mobs!
    I WILL do MOST Optionals - If I'm missing any I WILL let you know before you get to them!
    I WILL be using a Hireling - You can too BUT it's polite to ask {especially if there's only 1 space left and you calling a Hire will remove the LFM!}.



    P.S. - There's already a lot of Hatred towards Hirelings - Making them provide an XP Penalty {and it will be seen as a Penalty!} is only going to make this worse!
    Better Option - REMOVE the 5% Hireling Death Penalty instead!

  4. #24
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    My brother got a +4 to +5 tome on a normal quest the other day with the +2 loot rolling.

    If you want the UBER items, just give a +1 loot for 4 "PLAYERS" and a +2 loot for "6 players"

    Then just ensure the loot tables give that 'bonus'.

    Seeing a +5 tome out of a EPIC hard quest, was like... WOW!

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    [...]


    It's susceptible to multi-boxers, but that's got to be such a small population I don't think it would be a bigger deal than it is now.
    I supposed this can be checked. If all those boxes that has multiple logins coming from the same base router, disable those grouping bonuses.

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    I supposed this can be checked. If all those boxes that has multiple logins coming from the same base router, disable those grouping bonuses.
    Except for those of us who have several players behind the same router... just sayin'.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthuul View Post
    Can the issues of jerk players and players not running the quest as you like be solved in a different way other than a rating system?
    Yes. By me not using the the LFM system.

    I don't actually really want a rating system. I'm quite happy not using the LFM panel. But, there's a lot of people just like me, and for all the talk about how Turbine can get people to group, I really don't think they can. My issues are the same issues others share. The other thing Turbine can do is a complete game redesign that makes grouping mandatory to complete quests. I find this a lot more risky though, than keeping things the way they are.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthuul View Post
    Global LFMs have been mentioned three times now (more or less). Could this be the optimal initial LFM increasing design idea?
    This would be a solution, but I'm not at all sure it's actually technically possible.

  9. #29
    Hatchery Hero Inthuul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    This would be a solution, but I'm not at all sure it's actually technically possible.
    I think we could probably get an answer to this. If anyone has a connection to Turbine or a dev, feel free to ask.

    Also, when this thread drops to the bottom of the general forums first page, I will summarize the ideas (and mentioned drawbacks) in my original thread for easy viewing.
    Last edited by Inthuul; 07-09-2013 at 03:24 PM.

  10. #30
    Hatchery Hero Inthuul's Avatar
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    Would a complete revamp of xp/min equalization across all quests increase grouping?

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthuul View Post
    Would a complete revamp of xp/min equalization across all quests increase grouping?
    With the right character setup. (Not too hard to do.)

    It is still possible/easier to just solo quests on Epic Hard, than it is to get a group member you have to worry is a dead-head, and will just sit at the door.

    The fact you have to wait for people to run places, and wait at the quest door, and possibly wait for them to "take" the chain is the most "annoying" factors IMHO.

    If they made it UBER EASY to just teleport into quests, move around the game easier, and access the content easier, it would promote much more questing, faster.

  12. #32
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthuul View Post
    Would a complete revamp of xp/min equalization across all quests increase grouping?
    Possibly.

    Part of a TR life for many means a very strict leveling path. Deviation from the path leads to non optimal xp/min. I'm looking mainly at level 18-20 here. This is where grinding of specific quests becomes more beneficial. If Amrath and Cannith had more reasonable xp/min, especially on elite, then players would go out of their way to run the quests (and we'd have about 10 more quests in that range that are "worth it").

    Elite Cannith and Amrath can be much easier with a decent group as mob hp starts to get a bit too inflated for soloists to keep a good xp/min ratio going. The rewards in these areas are just not worth the effort. I can go and get double the xp in half the time running a quest 2 levels lower (which is also much easier to solo or shortman). That's just plain illogical, unless of course, the xp curve is warped on purpose to push xp pots, but I could discuss at length how that is also illogical as well as poor game design.
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  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    Except for those of us who have several players behind the same router... just sayin'.
    Or DDO could put in a new grouping system like Neverwinter's. Go to the quest journal, click on a button Queue for <quest> with <difficulty>, a new dialogue opened informed you of an ETA. DDO will automatically picked random people from the queue and formed the party and automatically picked a party leader. Of course this system would have automatically assigned a party healer if none of the divine classes are available in the queue after a timeout period.

    This is really going to be in the spirit of you don't know what you're going to get.

    Once all 6 people are ready, a dialogue popped up indicating the time to join the party by pressing [OK], and then teleports directly to inside the quest.

    If not enough people queued for the quest and there is a timeout period.

    Using this system, people in the party would get the party bonus; and cannot be short manned. Scaling would not be in effect based on the number of people in the party.

    P.S.: you will automatically be ported out of whatever quest you were working on previously and start on the new quest if the new quest is ready.

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  14. #34
    Hatchery Hero Inthuul's Avatar
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    I didn't play City of Heroes but what about a sidekick system of some flavor? http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Sidekick
    Anyone have any experience or opinions about if it would encourage grouping?

  15. #35
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    The core problem is lack of population, not lack of groups. As evidenced in this thread, everyone has their own perception and desire of 'how to play DDO' in their minds. Putting in place bonuses for groups meeting certain conditions only marginalizes the other group.

    You have x amount of folks that want to group, you have x amount of folks that want to solo, and every shade of grouposity in between.

    Global LFM is possible, see the MMO Rift for an example.

    Free and nearly instantaneous server transfers are possible, see Rift for an example.

    I am not an information technology person, but I can wager a guess that the above costs money and time. They have merged servers in the past, so it can certainly happen. Likely they will wait until summer is over at any rate, to get a better idea of the current trend before doing anything drastic.

    On Cannith by the way, for reference. I understand some servers are pretty healthy for groups. Mine is not, in my opinion.

  16. #36
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    To the OP - I don't believe any of the suggestions you gave will encourage grouping.



    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Remove scaling on elite.
    I like this idea a lot and would even venture one step further - Remove Scaling{period} And in doing so actually set the dungeon's difficulty based on a 4 person party as it was initially stated all dungeons would be set towards.

    This will put the challenge back into soloing

  17. #37
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    I have an interesting idea on how to improve grouping...

    The Problem
    The current system of Bravery Bonus and Elite streaks, incentives everyone to:
    1) Run quests 2 levels lower on elite
    2) Only run those quests that you haven't run before, or farm a quest with good XP/min

    So if you're running each quest once at each level, as you start checking off quests that you've run the list of available quests you want to run gets smaller and smaller, until you level up. If there's a group open, but it's a quest you've already run, then nope, you're not going to bother joining because you went get a BB and Elite streak bonus.

    Also, because you need to milk all the XP that you can out of each level of quests, if there's a quest being run at a higher level, even though you could join, and know you would do fine, nope, you won't until you've finished the current level of quests that you're at. Or maybe it's just me that does this...?

    Crazy Solution: Reset Bravery Bonus and Streak Bonus Every Day
    Once a day you should be able to qualify for Bravery Bonus and Streak bonus on any particular quest, even if you ran that quest already the previous day, or the day before that, or the day before that, etc.. Yes! This is a crazy idea, and here's why I was thinking it would encourage grouping in a pretty big way. In a single play session, because there still is BB and a streak bonus, you would still be incentivized to run a series of different quests throughout your session. If you like repeating the same quest over and over for the best XP/min, you could still do that.

    However, you would no longer have to worry about milking the BB and Elite streak XP out of every single quest at every single level. Every day you log in, if you want to go back and run some quests that you like over again, you could do that. More importantly:
    1) Because you don't have to milk the XP out of every quest at every level, you could join a group that's not 2 levels lower, but any level within the level range and feel like you're not missing out.
    2) If someone has a group open for a quest you've already run (a different day), you could join for the same XP as the first time you ran it.

    Yes, some less than popular quests would not be run as a group, but that's already happening! If I want to run an off-the-beaten path quest, when I put up a LFM people just don't bother joining, even if I'm actively recruiting, it can be painful to get a group together. Imagine lots more LFMs of the popular XP/min quests, with people joining from a range of character levels. It would be like the raid trains of old, where you would join up with a group and run through a bunch of quests each day, except that you'll out level the content at some point and then move on to a higher level train. The limitation is that every day you would only get the bonus once, so you'd want to not necessary run the same quest over and over again.

    Is this just a crazy idea? What does everyone think? Ah, the developers will probably never go for it, but it was just a thought.
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  18. #38
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthuul View Post
    Starting this thread to attempt to collect ideas for Turbine to encourage grouping. With the ultimate goal of increasing the amount of LFMs available to players.


    I'll start.

    Change the +10% Flawless Victory Bonus to only affect the character who died. Does this encourage teamwork? Maybe not. Does it encourage grouping? Maybe.

    Create a new grouping bonus.
    The leader of the party (most likely the creator of the LFM but not always) could get a +2% experience point bonus for every other player (not hireling) in the group, up to +10% experience for a full party in a normal quest.
    Every player participating in a group that is not the leader could get a +1% experience point bonus for every other player in the group, up to a +5% bonus for a normal quest.
    To keep experience in line, Raids (though grouping is necessary usually) could provide a +1% bonus for every other player in the group up to +11% with no "leader" bonus.

    To encourage grouping outside of guilds or semi-static or static groups there could be an experience bonus for grouping with a player you have never grouped with before or haven't grouped with recently like within 30 days or some other time period.
    This sounds like it could be more difficult to code than the above "grouping bonus" and I would encourage other ideas here.

    For simplicity I will also mention ideas I have already seen;

    Megaserver all players are moved to one server. Anyone with a technological background, feel free to comment on this idea.

    Instanced LFMs that are cross server. Turbine would likely have to implement a way to pull characters directly into a quest from wherever zone they are in and then are placed in an instance of the quest with characters from other servers. This would have economic implications too, allowing items that can be traded to pass between servers. Other challenges would be cross server access to the shard auction house as that can be brought up from the DDO ampersand. (Maybe not in quests? Never tried it.)

    I'm not interested in only discussing why or if LFM postings seem to be more infrequent. This has been discussed in other threads and should only be included here when relevant to the topic.

    Thanks for reading this far. I'm really interested in seeing what the community ideas about this subject are.

    Sol(insert relevant suffix based on character type here)
    Sarlona
    I understand that xp is what drives the players in this game, but we already have plenty of ways to increase our xp earned. we really don't need more. if there were some kind of grouping xp bonus just for being a leader or just for being in the group, it would just make it so more leaders would run the quest while others had to do nothing or if they did participate it could lead to more griefing if there were deaths.

    people group because

    1. quest is difficult and need/want help

    2. company

    3. multiple people to pull levers/switches

    4. raids

    5. faster completion or zerg xp/min

    6. unfamiliar with the quest

    7. loot pullers

    8. ???

    I think I got the biggest reasons why people group, but I still believe DS is the biggest reason why people group less. there are more guild/friend static groups today than there used to be. I see it all the time in my alliance chat before they resort to soloing or throwing up an lfm. change scaling to be challenging for a group of 4-6 players and I bet there would be an increase in pug lfms.

  19. #39
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    The majority of people who have posted to this thread should not be grouping with anybody IMO.

    The Devs should not listen to any of the ideas presented here so far.

    ...although if you read between the lines, you can see what some of the real issues are game is facing....

    For example... the feeling that people have to TR.
    That they have to level back up to 20 as fast as possible.
    That they need XP pots to do it... and XP pots have timers... so people feel an even greater need to rush through dungeons.

    The +10% xp "bonus" for no one dying is.... kinda a fail for lack of better words. (sad.. but hard to dispute)

    Bravery Bonus streaks are also viewed as essential. (which causes people to want/preasure others... to do elite, whether or not the party is ready for it or will find it an enjoyable experience.

    Losing +10% no death "bonus" or various issues with BB causes bad feelings.... (granted I could care less about the type of people who have those bad feelings... but they affect the entire gaming community so should be considered.... I guess........)

    Dungeon scaling may or may not be an issue... but since it seems that many people wanted to be able to solo more, it should probably be left as is...just take note of it....



    Hmmm... not sure what else.....

    While I see all of these things as problems with people and not the game.... one cannot ignore that the problems still exist.. and are hurting the game........

    Not sure if anything can or should be done about these things...... but I guess it would be bad for business if we just sent them all back to that other MMO where they came from.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    The majority of people who have posted to this thread should not be grouping with anybody IMO.

    The Devs should not listen to any of the ideas presented here so far.
    You are absolutely right.

    The LFM problem (it really IS an LFM problem and NOT a grouping problem) stems from the playerbase. The vast majority of the playerbase has decided that they'd rather solo/fill from channel/fill from guild/fill from friendslist. This leaves a small minority having problems running the way they wish because there's not enough people who like their playstyle.

    This isn't a new occurrence either. I was brought into this game two and a half years ago by friends from another game. At that time, I was brought into an endgame raiding guild, and even then, the consensus was that the pugscene was for noobs.

    So while there's all this talk about what to do to make the LFM system better, the real thing people are trying to do is get people who do not want to use the LFM system to do so. This is a losing battle and something that will never happen. The best idea here was to make an LFM panel that serves all servers, and while I doubt that it's technically possible, it would be a great idea. That way, a playstyle that is unpopular will at least be able to operate at maximum capacity allowed by the playerbase.

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