Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 86
  1. #61
    The Hatchery
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Dandonk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    5,284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooklebunny View Post
    Once again, This Is Not About Intellectual Property. This is about the fact that the prize is a computer, which could impose an import duty on the recipient, and/or cause Turbine to incur liability which they cannot necessarily legally limit in other nations. If the prize were Turbine Points (or something good, like a mod which lets the winner access Devotion enhancement as a Ranger or Pally under the new enhancement system), there would be no issue.
    Interesting. So they intentionally decided not to make the contest available to all their customers when they went for a computer as a prize.

    Or even provide a secondary choice for non-US citizens.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  2. #62
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Interesting. So they intentionally decided not to make the contest available to all their customers when they went for a computer as a prize.

    Or even provide a secondary choice for non-US citizens.
    That's about the size of it, yes, although if my experience is anything to go by, the marketing department made their minds up and signed the contract with the supplier (in perfect innocence, bless their empty little heads) before it ever got to Legal

    That's the problem with the sort of people generally in charge of coming up with this sort of thing: they're so ignorant that they're even ignorant of the fact that they're ignorant. No point berating the community reps about it; the arguments got settled before they were even told, like as not.
    I'm a snuggly, fluffy, cuddly-wuddly little rabbit.

    And if you call me a gamer grrrrl, I will reach down your throat, rip out your pancreas and feed it to my Rottweiler.

  3. #63
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,180

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Interesting. So they intentionally decided not to make the contest available to all their customers when they went for a computer as a prize.

    Or even provide a secondary choice for non-US citizens.
    the company (origin) has held contests for their computers before, I wouldnt doubt that they went to turbine and reqested it be used for one, so most likely using the computer wasnt really a choice but a motive for the contest. The being said, ALOT of countries have certain laws which regulate what exactly can be won in a contest or how it is held.

    Alot of countries laws dictate that if a lottery/sweepstake is 'free to enter' or even some label it as having a monetary prize then its labeled as gambling, and most of the time require a permit or some such thing such as having to be approved by the countries government to make it legal (which means it would cost turbine money), or have some other requirement that makes it not as easy to go through with a contest. I believe in Europe if a contest uses skill such as drawing, or creating something, then the prize has to be greater then or equal to what a person can get if they patented it (which how would they determine how much it is worth?, and to do so for such a large amount of images would probably be suicide for a company)

    so while they could've probably went through all the channels, spend thousands of dollars and such, to run and make it available to everyone. it just wouldnt be viable to do since they're not charging anything to enter.

  4. #64
    The Hatchery
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Dandonk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    5,284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooklebunny View Post
    That's about the size of it, yes, although if my experience is anything to go by, the marketing department made their minds up and signed the contract with the supplier (in perfect innocence, bless their empty little heads) before it ever got to Legal

    That's the problem with the sort of people generally in charge of coming up with this sort of thing: they're so ignorant that they're even ignorant of the fact that they're ignorant. No point berating the community reps about it; the arguments got settled before they were even told, like as not.
    Fair enough, then. Thanks for bringing some real info into this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    the company (origin) has held contests for their computers before, I wouldnt doubt that they went to turbine and reqested it be used for one, so most likely using the computer wasnt really a choice but a motive for the contest. The being said, ALOT of countries have certain laws which regulate what exactly can be won in a contest or how it is held.

    Alot of countries laws dictate that if a lottery/sweepstake is 'free to enter' or even some label it as having a monetary prize then its labeled as gambling, and most of the time require a permit or some such thing such as having to be approved by the countries government to make it legal (which means it would cost turbine money), or have some other requirement that makes it not as easy to go through with a contest. I believe in Europe if a contest uses skill such as drawing, or creating something, then the prize has to be greater then or equal to what a person can get if they patented it (which how would they determine how much it is worth?, and to do so for such a large amount of images would probably be suicide for a company)

    so while they could've probably went through all the channels, spend thousands of dollars and such, to run and make it available to everyone. it just wouldnt be viable to do since they're not charging anything to enter.
    I am not qualified to speak about whether you are right in your supposition or not. I can just say that I am, once again, disappointed that Turbine didn't really mean it when they said they wanted to go global. They're clearly still a US-only company that only wants to deal with everyone else when it involves taking our money.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  5. #65
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    30

    Default

    The reasoning behind not allowing non-US citizens to participate in this contest is not likely to be boiled down to one issue, as so many seem to want to do. Rather, the decision likely recognized a great multitude of potential legal hazards. Who will own the artwork? How do contests function in this country or that? How regulated is the importation of the prize in this or that country? Is there a potential for Turbine to be pulled into a lawsuit in a foreign court?

    Concerning the ownership of the artwork... Turbine obviously has an interest in acquiring full ownership of the prize-winning works, not simply the right to use them. This distinction is significant as it regards the previously posted section of the user-license agreement wherein the user (that's you) only agrees to grant Turbine the license or the right to use products creation by, for, and or with Turbine's product. Simply put, such products may still be owned by the user even though turbine has acquired the right to use. Ensuring that Turbine acquires full ownership of contest submissions requires that Turbine's legal counsel have a thorough enough understanding of both international intellectual property laws and the more particularized regional regulatory standards. Even though a great many countries have harmonized their intellectual property laws, administrative and regulatory agencies may still create stricter, more nuanced, regulations. This only scratches the surface.

    How do contests function in various countries? Lets be perfectly clear about this. Laws regarding contests are not even entirely uniform within the United States. They have become more uniform due to the growing intra-national trend toward harmonized interstate laws, but nuances still exist. There is no international standard regulating international contests, and no reason to believe that even generalized standards exist beyond those countries that have extra-ordinarily close economic and diplomatic ties. Here, we have not even scratched the surface.

    Is there the potential that Turbine could get pulled into a lawsuit in a foreign court? Yes! Turbine has a presence in every country in which one of the users of its products resides. Turbine may potentially avail itself to the judicial system of those countries by continually streaming data and content to the users in those jurisdictions. Laws regulating whether or not a court has jurisdiction over an allege defendant are plentiful, and many of them could easily be used to call Turbine into court at any time.

    Turbine's legal counsel has a duty to apprise it of potential legal hazards and to advise it on how best to mitigate its risks. Considering the multitude and complexity potential legal hazards, legal counsel advised them that the best idea was to refrain from offering the contest to players outside of the United States.

    This is not discrimination; it is legal pragmatics.

  6. #66
    Community Member N-0cturn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooklebunny View Post
    It's always amusing watching guys flapping their lips in the most profound ignorance, in an attempt to out-bluff other guys who are equally ignorant.



    What, you mean perfectly good internationally-agreed legal standards like the Berne Convention, which the US harmonised its copyright laws with TWENTY-FIVE YEARS AGO?!



    You are wrong, in absolutely every particular relevant to this contest. The criteria for assertion of copyright holders' rights are identical in every state. The "sponsor" doesn't ever get the copyright in the US for a requested piece of art unless it constitutes a "work for hire". In this case, it is in fact clearly a work for hire, which is also covered in (for all practical purposes) exactly the same way by every country which is a signatory to the Berne Conventio. This means it is no more problematic, in any way, to open the contest up to the rest of the world. Copyright is territorial, and the costs are borne by the person making the accusation of infringement, so even a citizen of a country that isn't a signatory wouldn't have a prayer: even if there are jurisdictions in which a clear work-for-hire isn't honoured, which I don't believe, they have to make their case stick in the States.

    And even if - IF - someone could make a case that this is NOT a work-for-hire, Turbine can cover themselves for free by writing a transfer in perpetuity into the terms and conditions or insisting up-front upon an appropriate Creative Commons license from the winner, and US law is the only law that matters as it's the US territory in which it would be enforced.

    Once again, This Is Not About Intellectual Property. This is about the fact that the prize is a computer, which could impose an import duty on the recipient, and/or cause Turbine to incur liability which they cannot necessarily legally limit in other nations. If the prize were Turbine Points (or something good, like a mod which lets the winner access Devotion enhancement as a Ranger or Pally under the new enhancement system), there would be no issue.
    You can believe me when i assure you that while work-for-hire exists as you explained for the US and UK, this won't work work for most states in central Europe. Let's take Germany and its "Urheberrecht" for an example:

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    The Urhebergesetz is an authors’ right (“droit d’auteur”) or "monistic" style law. As such there is a special emphasis on the relation between the work and its actual author.[3] The right is perceived as an aspect of the author's general personality right and as a general rule is therefore inalienable. This also means that there is no corporate copyright in Germany[4] and the fundamental rights cannot be transferred except by heritage.

    While exclusive licences are almost as powerful as copyright transfer, the author always retains some rights to the work, including the right to prevent defacing and to be identified as the author.
    It would not be impossible to use art from European artists, but it would require a lot for work from their legal team, since it simply does not work in the same way as in the US and a European author will still keep some rights. I doubt that shipping the computer is an major issue.

  7. #67
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by N-0cturn View Post
    You can believe me when i assure you that while work-for-hire exists as you explained for the US and UK, this won't work work for most states in central Europe.
    France, Germany and possibly Belgium potentially pose the problem you describe, but let's look at that...

    Quote Originally Posted by N-0cturn View Post
    Let's take Germany and its "Urheberrecht" for an example:
    Alright, let's do that.

    Droits d'auteur are, as you hint at, inalienable. However, if the author has granted exclusive rights of use to rights holders, they're also obliged to compensate the rights holders for the withdrawal of rights of use if they exercise their right of rescision; this is the case wherever moral rights are recognised. If you're aware of an exception to that, let me know. In practice, the worst possible outcome for Turbine in this circumstance is that after rescindment is granted and they are notified, they're entitled to compensation from the author for - as a minimum - the cost and effort imposed by withdrawing their rights to display, reproduce and distribute the work. Now lets compare that mind-bogglingly low-risk scenario to the Pr backlash from the player base; if that's the way they're thinking, it just doesn't make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by N-0cturn View Post
    It would not be impossible to use art from European artists, but it would require a lot for work from their legal team, since it simply does not work in the same way as in the US and a European author will still keep some rights.
    And yet they're prepared to specify a range of countries eligible to participate in the Prize Draw for LOTRO, which requires examination of highly territorial legislation pertaining to games of chance; much more work than establishing watertight exclusive rights to a solicited image (which under the same legislation you reference, would hold the creator of the template as a natural author with equal standing). The argument doesn't hold water. The only difference is that the LOTRO prize is electronic in nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by N-0cturn View Post
    I doubt that shipping the computer is an major issue.
    I don't: we had a client last year with a very similar problem. All that said, I'm prepared to go with Leistes' comment that (to paraphrase) they decided it was "just too hard" for more than one reason, even if the reasons aren't really justifiable.
    Last edited by Pooklebunny; 07-11-2013 at 02:12 PM.
    I'm a snuggly, fluffy, cuddly-wuddly little rabbit.

    And if you call me a gamer grrrrl, I will reach down your throat, rip out your pancreas and feed it to my Rottweiler.

  8. #68
    Community Member N-0cturn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooklebunny View Post
    All that said, I'm prepared to go with Leistes' comment that (to paraphrase) they decided it was "just too hard" for more than one reason, even the reasons aren't really justifiable.
    Yeah, let's just agree to that. I just wanted to explain, that I am not mad at Turbine for limiting this to US.

  9. #69
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Bordeaux
    Posts
    1,758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Then get International laws changed so you can participate.

    Until then even Turbine has to follow them.

    And by the way, Turbine is NOT discriminating - they are just following the laws put down. Go take your discrimination BS to the people that wrote such laws, not the ones that have to follow them.
    While I wouldn't subscribe to that discriminating statement, from which international law you are talking about? There is no universal worldwide law. While on the other hand the US state, its companies and residents love to sue non US residents all over the world on a regular basis.

    However I agree that laws aren't an easy playground in such a contest even thou the common-wealth share in general the same law principals with the US (common law). While the EU in general has the legal system of the civil law which differs in certain aspects. But that would have most likely easily allowed UK and Australian residents to participate. Further as the jurisdiction for this would be in the US, the common law would even ease it, as in cases where the parties disagree on what the law is, a common law court only has to look on past precedential decisions of relevant courts.

    So it is actually maybe not the contest itself but the prize, as it would be probably costly to send a $4000 PC to the other end of the world? Dunno the exact reasoning, but it is sad for all the non US residents that can't participate.
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  10. #70
    Community Member Kayla93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    950

    Default

    I am angry

    "This contest is open to all legal U.S. residents age 18 or older."

    I feel discriminated.
    I understand it would be hard to send us computer, but we should be offered something different.
    I would be even happy with only lifetime vip :/.
    I dont like Turbine in this moment. Feels unfair.

    European rights... like it cant be given away by the author.... in exchange for reward :P.


    I mean - we are all playing game. We shpuld have all the same chances. If u cant make it so everyone has the same chances - dont make contest at all.

    Because upsetting everyone outside USA is quite not worthy making happy these few winners.
    Last edited by Kayla93; 07-15-2013 at 12:12 PM.

  11. #71
    Community Member Shinjiteru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    192

    Default

    First of all, nice contest.

    Sadly I already told a friend that Turbine is having such a contest. Hope she didn't start drawing/thinking about the contest.

    The main 'problem' with the US restriction on this contest from my point is that Turbine says they want to be global, try to be so and the result is that I have to pay taxes for TP purchases now but localization of the game client is stopped and such contests are still 'not working' in my region. Seems I don't get the benefit of Turbine getting global other than increasing the costs of the TP packs/codes for players outside of the US.

    As far as I know other US companies still let me pay in USD for ingame money without applying any taxes so this seems to be connected to Turbines desire to become global/expand into other countries.

    And it's a bit sad that the only 'visible' effect for players that Turbine is going global are the increased TP costs. :S

  12. #72
    2015 DDO Players Council MangLord's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Troy, NY
    Posts
    1,022

    Default

    Why isn't there an actual tattoo artist on the judging panel? Massachusetts, especially the Boston area, has some great local artists. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find someone willing to look at some submissions.

    There's a lot of artistry to tattooing that people might not understand, even if they have an art degree. You have to have an understanding of musculoskeletal structures when your canvas is living flesh and bone. I feel like it would be a disservice not to at least consult with a professional tattoo artist about the content being added to the game. I'd hate for DDO to be another game full of corny, pasted on designs that look bad.

  13. #73
    Community Member Brigadoom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    84

    Angry Thanks Turbine

    Delivery has failed to these recipients or distribution lists:

    rcole@turbine.com

    The recipient's mailbox is full and can't accept messages now. Microsoft Exchange will not try to redeliver this message for you. Please try resending this message later, or contact the recipient directly.
    Sent by Microsoft Exchange Server 2007

  14. #74
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2

    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by Brigadoom View Post
    Delivery has failed to these recipients or distribution lists:

    rcole@turbine.com

    The recipient's mailbox is full and can't accept messages now. Microsoft Exchange will not try to redeliver this message for you. Please try resending this message later, or contact the recipient directly.
    Sent by Microsoft Exchange Server 2007
    Yep, I got the same thing when I tried to submit mine. I managed to submit the first one through Facebook - after a long, annoying process in which I had to disable popups several times and give permission for them to access my profile and friends list - but when I tried to send in the second, I got a message that only one entry per 24 hours is allowed. I've checked the rules several times and can't find ANYTHING about this.

    So, not happy about having to use Facebook to begin with, unhappier that I can only submit one entry, and unhappier still (though really, I shouldn't be surprised) that Turbine dropped the ball so completely on this, hence pretty much any chance I might have had through no fault of my own.

  15. #75
    Community Member Full_Bleed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    826

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brigadoom View Post
    Delivery has failed to these recipients or distribution lists:

    rcole@turbine.com

    The recipient's mailbox is full and can't accept messages now. Microsoft Exchange will not try to redeliver this message for you. Please try resending this message later, or contact the recipient directly.
    Sent by Microsoft Exchange Server 2007
    I sent my submission off to ddo@turbine.com as instructed in the "Terms and Conditions" of the contest. I didn't get a receipt for the submission though, so I can only hope that it ends up where it's supposed to be. Where were people directed to send submissions to rcole@turbine.com?

  16. #76
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    7

    Default

    there must have been a whole bunch of submissions last evening which overloaded their email server.

    it seems that the ddo@turbine.com was forwarding the emails to another email address which became full (starting to bounce), but now it seems that the ddo@turbine.com is also full.

    Is there a way to formally check if our submissions went through? I spent the whole part of yesterday working on my submissions, and was dismayed when I saw that most of them were bounced back.


    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Bleed View Post
    I sent my submission off to ddo@turbine.com as instructed in the "Terms and Conditions" of the contest. I didn't get a receipt for the submission though, so I can only hope that it ends up where it's supposed to be. Where were people directed to send submissions to rcole@turbine.com?

  17. #77
    Community Member Brigadoom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    84

    Thumbs down ddo@turbine.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Bleed View Post
    I sent my submission off to ddo@turbine.com as instructed in the "Terms and Conditions" of the contest. I didn't get a receipt for the submission though, so I can only hope that it ends up where it's supposed to be. Where were people directed to send submissions to rcole@turbine.com?

    I posted the first few lines of the undeliverable bounce message I got when emailing my submission to ddo@turbine.com as the rules instructed. I also was able to get one through on Facebook, but I'm extremely ****ed because I have 18 other designs to submit.

    My daughter is the artist in the family. I talked her into helping me, but she has a newborn and a toddler and it was tough for her to set aside time to draw for me. We talked about it lots and she did some rough drawings, but she has two young children and sleep was on her mind more than drawing tattoos. I was finally able to get some time with her Sunday night, My GF and my son-in-law watched the kids while my daughter and I talked and she did sketches for me. Last night after work I rushed home, scanned the sketches, cleaned them up in GIMP, traced them and did final touches in Corel Draw. I was good to go and started emailing my submissions to ddo@turbine.com. A minute or so after sending, each submission bounced.

  18. #78
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Boston Area, MA
    Posts
    15,850

    Default

    Hey folks, we've been getting your Tattoo contest entries, ignore the "Undeliverable" message. One of the folks who gets email sent from ddo@turbine.com has a full mailbox, but the rest of us are getting your emails.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
    Submit DDO Bugs through: ddobugs.turbine.com
    Follow DDO on: Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest
    Join us on Twitch!



  19. #79
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Hey folks, we've been getting your Tattoo contest entries, ignore the "Undeliverable" message. One of the folks who gets email sent from ddo@turbine.com has a full mailbox, but the rest of us are getting your emails.
    thanks for the update, sorry for re-sending some of my entries this morning. I tried editing my post, after I realized that it was in fact only the rcole email address which was bouncing and not the ddo@turbine.com, but I was unable to edit my previous forum post.

  20. #80
    Community Member Meretrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    320

    Default

    Yup same here. Sorry I sent in a couple duplicates.

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload