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  1. #1
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    Default Hireling decision tree.

    So I've been observing hirelings working out their logic tree for combat actions...

    This is my testing results so far, and the order they perform their actions. Each test is run from top to bottom, and they stop at the 1st case that passes the test, fulfill the action, and then start checking again from the top of the list.

    Loop
    * If event follow, run to contract holder
    * If event aggressive, set int to -1
    * If event defensive, set int to 3
    * if event passive, set int 0
    * If standing in trap, hold still.
    * If contract holder being attacked by mob that cleaves, move into cleave range.
    * If contract holder < 10% life, cast smallest heal.
    * If on follow, follow RIGHT on their heels.
    * If not on heels of contract holder, stay out of heal range, and not in LOS.
    * If contract holder has condition I can cure... Cure it.
    * If party of contract holder has condition I can cure... null.
    * If contract holder is down >48 life cast full heal.
    * If contract holder is down >48 life and heal on CD, cast group heal
    * If I'm down >48 life cast full heal.
    * If I'm down >48 life and heal on CD, cast group heal
    * If no one is hurt, pick a target, and run into their face.
    * If no on is hurt, and I'm in the face of a monster, dump my mana into <attack spell>

    I'm actually joking about this list... But I have been documenting Albus's behavior because he has the BEST logic out of all the clerics.

  2. #2
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    So I've been observing hirelings working out their logic tree for combat actions...

    Loop

    * If contract holder is down >48 life cast full heal.
    * If contract holder is down >48 life and heal on CD, cast group heal
    * If I'm down >48 life cast full heal.
    * If I'm down >48 life and heal on CD, cast group heal
    Excuse me but when does Albus EVER cast a standard Heal {All he knows is Heal, Mass!}

    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    * If no on is hurt, and I'm in the face of a monster, dump my mana into <attack spell>

    I'm actually joking about this list... But I have been documenting Albus's behavior because he has the BEST logic out of all the clerics.
    What attack spell - This is ALBUS you're talking about!


    One observation I've made about Albus personally is if below 500 HP Max get Wyoh {or indeed ANY other Hire} Cos Albus will just let you die!

    If above 500HP Max you should be ok BUT even then He's Slow to Heal!


    Albus has a lot of HP himself but if you die it only takes the mobs like 2 seconds max to kill him too cos he simply has ZERO DPS!

  3. #3
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    He is actually pretty good.

    He does have a small heal!!! I swear! It's part of the buggy healer logic... He will heal for 30s and 40s if you're at about 10%...

    He actually doesn't move into combat, he casts some searing light spell for like 50 or something. That is what makes him the best...

    However if a mob attacks me, or him, and gets into his melee range, he will melee and follow.

    So the trick for him, is to get hit while he is OUT of melee range... He will plant his feet, and just throw a light spell ever 15 seconds or so. He will then heal from a planted position, unless the mob gets into his face.

    The other healers close for melee attacks... And that never ends well for them.

  4. #4
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    He is actually pretty good.

    He does have a small heal!!! I swear! It's part of the buggy healer logic... He will heal for 30s and 40s if you're at about 10%...

    He actually doesn't move into combat, he casts some searing light spell for like 50 or something. That is what makes him the best...

    However if a mob attacks me, or him, and gets into his melee range, he will melee and follow.

    So the trick for him, is to get hit while he is OUT of melee range... He will plant his feet, and just throw a light spell ever 15 seconds or so. He will then heal from a planted position, unless the mob gets into his face.

    The other healers close for melee attacks... And that never ends well for them.

    Strange isn't it...that two people can have completely opposite observations about a Computer Generated Hireling?

    I've used Albus on many an occasion {too many frankly} and really dislike him {and yes I know I'm in the minority}.
    On the other hand...
    I adore Wyoh {and I know I'm in the minority here too!}.

    I've been playing this game for over 3 years now and I can honestly say that over 75% of the time I have had a Hireling {at least one} with me and in play.
    I've used EVERY Cleric and FavSoul Hireling past Lvl 2 on MULTIPLE Occasions.

    AND
    Honestly...
    Albus is amongst the worst of them in my own opinion.

    Even worse than Albus and basically unusable....

    1. Fergus - Just Useless
    2. Skein - WF Melee Soul - Heals about as much as most zergers on this build
    3. Jatrina - Sandwiched in between Tempys and Natasha {both of whom have Mass Deathward}
    4. Maloren - Has an Int in Negative Numbers
    5. Lani Vesta
    The last one is however the only hireling in the entire game that has FoM on her bar so {a bit like the Ftr Mikayl the Pious and DDoor} Is useful on occasion {specifically - Tomb of the Forbidden in Necro III}.

    Other Healer Hires that are pretty weak...
    1. Dheran Giles - Similar to Albus - He thinks he's a Tank!
    2. Althea - Very Slow
    3. Fayden Maeleth and Arkyn Shahrud - Squishy
    4. Ayron Staliya - Incredibly Squishy
    5. Chalice - WF Cleric at Lvl 1 = Warning to Newbies

    One Hire that is useless while you're alive but comes good when you die...

    Flower - Seriously...Get yourself killed and watch her complete the quest for you!

    And the Good ones!

    1. Wyoh - Implosion WORKS! Use it and your opinion of her will definitely change for the better!
    2. Klin - Magnificent {Can get hung up on healing his Hezzy though}
    3. Natasha, Tempys and Duerim Guardwell - Mass Deathward
    4. Zaghar Everstar - Perfect FavSoul Healer!
    5. Kendra Estleton - Even now I have nothing bad to say about Kendra {Although when I started playing this game in 2010 she was SUPREME - Before she got Nerfed!}

    6. Lairon Hester - Seriously...This Bard wipes the floor with Maloren and Burak as a Healer {+ He carries Blur and Inspire Courage too}

    And for the Robots...

    1. Barrage - Has No Equal
    2. Flare - Quick to heal
    3. Sigil - Higher Lvl than Barrage BUT not in the same league

    AND FINALLY:
    The ONE Hireling that if the Devs allowed us to level up alongside us I'd want with ALL my characters....

    MARISSA LORLE
    ---------------
    ------------
    --------

  5. #5
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    I left out the Nuker Souls above so here's my list {best to worst}....

    1. Larafay D'Orret - Still unparalleled as she actually remembers to heal from time to time {until she runs out of SP that is}.

    2. Aunidil Tor-Val - A Nice option to have at Lvl 5

    3. Tanya Brightstone - Above Average

    --------------------------------------------------------

    4. Nimeth Celibel - Runs out of Juice way too fast!

    5. Caraneth Myar - Used to be #1...Seriously she was even better than Larafay and Blew away the High Lvl Wizard and Sorc hirelings!
    BUT
    The Devs decided to nerf her Implosion!
    AND
    It became impossible to ignore the fact that here we have a Lvl 19 FavSoul Hireling that DOES NOT have Raise Dead {OF ANY KIND} on her bar!!!

    Oh and you went and Nerfed her DPS Devs.... Aren't you proud of yourselves?

  6. #6
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    I just took him out into kings forest....

    Functions exactly as I always expect...

    He will heal with heal, then mass heal if heal is on cooldown.

    If you get below 5% he will cast a cure light.
    If you get hit, he will plant feet, and cast nimbus or whatever for about 70 light over and over.
    He won't close distance with mobs, even if they shoot him with an arrow.
    He will only follow, and melee if the mobs closes with him, OR you close with the mobs with him on follow before the 1st swing.

    If you have him planted on passive, you have to move him AFTER removing passive or he won't heal. (Same with all the idiots.)

    I used him in Tor to kill the dragons, because he plants his feet, and only uses heal/mass heal, and nimbus of light. (Or what ever that 70 point light spell is.)

    He has 5 potions of mana, and all the "good" click spells.... Mass death ward, greater resto, true res.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    One observation I've made about Albus personally is if below 500 HP Max get Wyoh {or indeed ANY other Hire} Cos Albus will just let you die!
    Yep, funny how different people have different hire experiences. My static group has standard jokes about Wyoh and how she prefers to do ANYTHING (tank bosses, stand in lava, etc.) rather than heal you. We tell jokes about how she sobs when we summon her (No, not you again!) and immediately looks for a way to commit suicide rather than run a dungeon with us.

  8. #8
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    3 things would make him PERFECT.

    1) Follow at 10'
    2) Never melee
    3) use Cure Critical if both other cool downs are cooking

  9. #9
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    I just took him out into kings forest....

    Functions exactly as I always expect...

    He will heal with heal, then mass heal if heal is on cooldown.

    If you get below 5% he will cast a cure light.
    If you get hit, he will plant feet, and cast nimbus or whatever for about 70 light over and over.
    He won't close distance with mobs, even if they shoot him with an arrow.
    He will only follow, and melee if the mobs closes with him, OR you close with the mobs with him on follow before the 1st swing.

    If you have him planted on passive, you have to move him AFTER removing passive or he won't heal. (Same with all the idiots.)

    I used him in Tor to kill the dragons, because he plants his feet, and only uses heal/mass heal, and nimbus of light. (Or what ever that 70 point light spell is.)

    He has 5 potions of mana, and all the "good" click spells.... Mass death ward, greater resto, true res.

    1. What Character were you on and what Level?

    2. Are you capable of clearing King's Forest WITHOUT a Hireling on said character?

    3. In Tor...Were you soloing {and if so - How did you keep BOTH Dragon and Giant off him?

    4. Was it Heroic or Epic Tor? AND What difficulty?

    5. If you did the same King's Forest and Tor with Wyoh, Klin or even Heystack/Merenon.... Would you expect to see a noticeable difference?

    6. ALL Epic FavSoul Hirelings are Weak Sauce unfortunately...
    Selis and Luna don't even come close to Klin, Wyoh and Albus!
    The Lvl 23 {I've forgotten his name} is just plain awful {All HP and nothing else!}
    Andarro is the next best thing BUT he is 4 {FOUR} Lvls higher than Albus and STILL only just compares!


    And here I am...Championing Albus {God Help me!}

    Klin and Wyoh Suffer in Epics because they do have much lower HP totals than Albus BUT in Heroics {Even Amrath} both can hold their own so long as the player knows what they're doing.

    P.S. I do have a long-standing regard for a certain Feat!

    Augment Summoning is almost a Mandatory Feat on many of my Characters!

  10. #10
    Community Member SemiraLynn's Avatar
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    You forgot a few Hireling options:

    * If less than 99% Spell Points, immediately drink an SP pot.
    * Every 10 seconds roll a D20. If the roll is greater than 9, cease all action until contract holder changes your stance.
    * When summoned from a distance, run 90% of the way to contract holder, then teleport to them.
    Orien Player: Semirasai, ~3~ L28 Drow Wizard :: Kaethe, ~5~ L13 Halfling Barb/Bard/Rog :: Esthera, ~2~ L26 Human Favored Soul
    Sophiae, L20 Drow Bard :: Kitarina, L20 Half-Orc Fighter :: Aadia, L20 Half-Elf Sorcerer :: Olesia, ~2~ L15 Sun Elf Cleric/Monk

  11. #11
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SemiraLynn View Post
    You forgot a few Hireling options:

    * If less than 99% Spell Points, immediately drink an SP pot.
    I really wish the Devs would fix this behaviour as it's the #1 reason why Caster Hirelings run out of mana.

    Cleric Hirelings are just as bad - They insist on drinking ALL their Pots BEFORE you get to the FIRST Shrine {and many quests have Multiple Shrines!}
    They then reach said Shrine on Max SP as they ALWAYS drink their LAST Pot on seeing it!

    So you carry on to the next one which you get them to use.

    AND TWO MINUTES LATER....
    You have to take hireling back to the first Shrine because he/she's OUT of Mana AGAIN!

    Relic of a Sovereign Past is the Best Example of this behaviour:

    When soloing this quest - By the time you reach the End-Fight your Hireling will have used EVERY Available Shrine AND be completely out of Mana!
    EVERY SINGLE TIME!

    Quote Originally Posted by SemiraLynn View Post
    * Every 10 seconds roll a D20. If the roll is greater than 9, cease all action until contract holder changes your stance.
    This does happen too often
    BUT
    Mostly it's a consequence of Instance Hopping {some quests have multiple instances which can be annoying - Explorer Zones with Caves are a Pain in the Proverbial!}

    A Fix that works 99% of the time:
    1. Switch hireling to Guard upon entering a Dungeon from an Explorer Zone.
    2. Immediately switch Hireling back to Active {Much better responsiveness on Active in my experience}

    Do this EVERY time you switch instances with a Hireling!

    Oh and when your Hireling's contract runs out your hireling will immediately take a -100 Penalty to Intelligence!
    This is a hidden Nerf - It only started happening around Update 12!

    Quote Originally Posted by SemiraLynn View Post
    * When summoned from a distance, run 90% of the way to contract holder, then teleport to them.
    So annoying!
    ONLY way around this is if you can park your hireling somewhere that they physically CANNOT run to you!

    Grey Moon Trapped Bridges:

    1. Pull bridge Ogres to you - DON'T LET HIRE ANYWHERE NEAR BRIDGE! - Kill said Ogres
    2. Park Hire in Key room and let door shut behind you
    3. Make your way across the bridge
    4. Call Hire {If you die while crossing Bridge make sure you're on the other side BEFORE calling hire} Have Hire res you on far side and carry on.

    If attempting to Solo Grey Moon 1 & 2 for Bravery {These are Lvl 6 quests and NO Hire of Lvl 8 or lower has Raise Dead} TRY NOT TO DIE ON BRIDGE!
    There is NO Shrine in this Dungeon!

  12. #12
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    1. What Character were you on and what Level?
    I play 25 wizard (no healer PM)
    25 monk (sometimes healer, always Albus)


    2. Are you capable of clearing King's Forest WITHOUT a Hireling on said character?
    yes

    3. In Tor...Were you soloing {and if so - How did you keep BOTH Dragon and Giant off him?
    3 man 1 bot
    tank, real healer for tank.... me, and albus on others...
    I actually think I could keep them off albus without any difficulty. Because he plants his feet, and I can do 70+ more ago. Easy. In fact, they never hit him once... because I parked him smartly, and pulled how I always do. I'm just familiar with him.

    4. Was it Heroic or Epic Tor? AND What difficulty?
    Epic hard.

    5. If you did the same King's Forest and Tor with Wyoh, Klin or even Heystack/Merenon.... Would you expect to see a noticeable difference?

    Oh yes!!! Tor would be horrible. They would close the gap, and take tail slaps!!!! They would move into the acid MUCH more regularly!!! I had albus up 100% on Black, and white. He died once on blue because I didn't position him correctly. The thing that makes albus better is his mechanic to NEVER close the gap unless the mob closes it on him. THAT is the key.


    6. ALL Epic FavSoul Hirelings are Weak Sauce unfortunately...
    Selis and Luna don't even come close to Klin, Wyoh and Albus!
    The Lvl 23 {I've forgotten his name} is just plain awful {All HP and nothing else!}
    Andarro is the next best thing BUT he is 4 {FOUR} Lvls higher than Albus and STILL only just compares!

    I'm telling you... Albus is THE BEST because his simple rules, and predictable behavior.


    And here I am...Championing Albus {God Help me!}

    Klin and Wyoh Suffer in Epics because they do have much lower HP totals than Albus BUT in Heroics {Even Amrath} both can hold their own so long as the player knows what they're doing.

    P.S. I do have a long-standing regard for a certain Feat!

    Augment Summoning is almost a Mandatory Feat on many of my Characters!

    I have double augment on my PM, just for kicks. No room on my monk.
    Last edited by 350zguy; 07-08-2013 at 09:46 PM.

  13. #13
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Strange isn't it...that two people can have completely opposite observations about a Computer Generated Hireling?
    Word.

    5. Lani Vesta
    The last one is however the only hireling in the entire game that has FoM on her bar so {a bit like the Ftr Mikayl the Pious and DDoor} Is useful on occasion {specifically - Tomb of the Forbidden in Necro III}.
    Very cool.

    1. Wyoh - Implosion WORKS! Use it and your opinion of her will definitely change for the better!
    Underlevel, Overlevel, Atlevel, I have never seen a Wyoh implosion succeed. ever.

    2. Klin - Magnificent {Can get hung up on healing his Hezzy though}
    My Fav

    6. Lairon Hester - Seriously...This Bard wipes the floor with Maloren and Burak as a Healer {+ He carries Blur and Inspire Courage too}
    Will have to give him a try

    MARISSA LORLE
    Agree 100%
    don't recall what I +1'd you for last, but i guess i have to spread some around. so virtual +1

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    1. Wyoh - Implosion WORKS! Use it and your opinion of her will definitely change for the better!
    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Underlevel, Overlevel, Atlevel, I have never seen a Wyoh implosion succeed. ever.
    BOgre, maybe you don't have Augment Summon like Fran?

  15. #15
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    BOgre, maybe you don't have Augment Summon like Fran?
    Pretty sure that Augment is NOT required for Wyoh's Implosion to work - She has a Very High DC for Hireling!

    Now - I've taken her into High Road Slayer and she's done fine there {yes she can die} BUT mainly I use her in Lvl 17-19 Content on Elite/Cannith Manufactory, Amrath, Reaver's Refuge, Vale and King's Forest slayers!

    IQ is where she shines!

    Note: She is squishy and has low Concentration/NO Quicken {does any Hire have this Feat?} so I have a standard rule for when going into combat:

    1. Make absolutely sure Wyoh is close behind me!
    2. Put her on Passive so as NOT to have her casting/Meleeing at the wrong moment.
    3. Target enemy and tell her to cast Implosion
    4. Switch her to active and charge into battle {Don't want her taking all the aggro!}.

    You'll just have to take my word for it I'm afraid BUT:

    Eye of the Titan {can't remember the difficulty but pretty sure it was at level and BB so Elite is likely!}
    FULL Group {One Hire - Wyoh}
    Most Kills by quite a margin - WYOH!

    Every time her Cooldown came off I hit Implosion!

    And yes we did have low DPS as a group!

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