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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Am I overlooking something - or have the Human race lost all racial HP enhancements?
    Also - FvS used to have the most class HP enhancements - now they only have a few.

    I know about the changes to toughness and getting hp for free - but that doesnt change that some races and classes still have access to significant +HP enhancements while humans appear to have access to none and FvS only a relative few.

    I cannot imagine thats WAI...
    You're not missing something.

    Heroic Durability got a bump and there's a new Improved Heroic Durability feat that add 5 HP per 5 class levels (not character levels)

    I've posted a Summary of the HP changes in another thread but here are the details. There are definite winners and losers on the HP side of things.

    Code:
    Race /Class                 Current        New        Diff        +HP%
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Heroic Durability                20         25         + 5
    Improved Heroic Durability Max    0         20(i)      +20
    Improved Heroic Durability Min    0         10(ii)     +10
    
    Bladeforged                      40         20         -20
    Drow                             20          0         -20
    Dwarf                            40         30(iii)    -10        + 4%
    Elf                              20          0         -20
    Halfling                         20          0         -20
    Half-Elf                         30          0         -30
    Half-Orc                         20(iv)      0         -20
    Human                            30          0         -30
    Warforged                        40         40           0
    
    Artificer                         0          0           0
    Barbarian                        40         50(v)      +10
    Bard                              0         30(vi)     +30
    Cleric                            0         15(vii)    +15
    Druid                            40         72(viii)   +32
    Favored Soul                     40         15(ix)     -25
    Fighter Min                      40         15(x)      -25
    Fighter Max                      40         83(xi)     +43        +20%
    Half-Elf Barbarian Dilettante	 20         15         - 5
    Monk                             20         35(xii)    +15        + 3%
    Paladin                          40         79(xiii)   +39        +20%
    Ranger                            0          0           0
    Rogue                             0          0           0
    Sorcerer                          0          0           0
    Wizard                           20         30(xiv)    +10
    
    (i)    +5 HP per 5 CLASS levels, max = 5/15, 10/10 or 5/5/10
    (ii)   +5 HP per 5 CLASS levels, min = 4/4/12
    (iii)  Racial enhancement Child of the Mountain = +4% Max HP
    (iv)   Should never have been 20, min 30 or more likely 40
    (v)    Frenzied Berserker core abilities = 20 HP plus Occult Slayer Toughness = 30 HP
    (vi)   Warchanter core abilities = 30 HP
    (Vii)  Protection Tier 1 Toughness = 15 HP
    (viii) Nature's Warrior Tree = 1 HP / Point spent, max 80, Core abilities do not count for HP, need FEAT: Dodge
    (ix)   Protection Tier 1 Toughness = 15 HP
    (x)    Kensai Tier 2 Ascetic Training = 15 HP
    (xi)   Stalwart Defender Tree = 1 HP / Point spent, Core abilities do not count for HP, need FEAT: Improved Shield Bash, 68 AP plus 15 from Kensai Ascetic Training
    (xii)  Shintao Tier 2 Conditioning = 15 HP, Shintao Tier 5 Meditation of War = +3% HP in Earth Stance, Henshin Mystic Tier 1 Way of the Patient Tortoise = 20 HP at 15
    (xiii) Sacred Defender Tree = 1 HP / Point spent, max 80, Core abilities do not count for HP
    (xiv)  Pale Master Tier 1 Deathless Vigor = 30 HP

  2. #82

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    You're not missing something.

    Heroic Durability got a bump and there's a new Improved Heroic Durability feat that add 5 HP per 5 class levels (not character levels)

    I've posted a Summary of the HP changes in another thread but here are the details. There are definite winners and losers on the HP side of things.
    Thanks, I very much appreciate the great work you are doing for the rest of us

    I still wonder if that can be WAI though. The Human FvS (a common combination) lost 35 hp - while the WF Wiz (another common combination) gained 30 hp. Thats - odd - to say the least.

  4. #84
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Updated the document with all of the latest changes from Open Beta.
    Thank you so much. Looks like there were lots of small changes during closed beta. Thanks for putting this all together. Not sure what I am going to do with a few of my toons but this at least gives me a starting place to start thinking about what to do next.

    Thanks! Thanks! Thanks!

    AbyssalMage

  5. #85
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    Thanks so much for putting this all together!!


    It annoyed me enthrallment is no longer in existence as a song... Unless fascinate has changed to what enthrallment used to be... Not that bard didn't get any interesting new abilities!
    Last edited by darchow_the_raven; 08-11-2013 at 01:25 PM. Reason: Misconception over spell power

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by darchow_the_raven View Post
    Oh and enthrallment is no longer in existence as a song... Unless fascinate has changed to what enthrallment used to be... Not that bard didn't get any interesting new abilities!
    Enthrallment is an enhancement in the Spellsinger tree.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by darchow_the_raven View Post
    Thanks so much for putting this all together!!


    Couple of changes that annoyed me at a glance;

    Wizard maximum spell power is reduced and negative energy aside, specialising in certain elements is forbidden. Assuming all 80 points are spent in the class tree (not going to happen or be viable if it did) 80 spell power is the maximum... Reduced from a maximum of 100. It appears (if this goes live as shown) the only "good" change for the archmage tree was losing some spell points by default to be able to take the SLAs that nobody took anyway for no additional spell point loss.

    Oh and enthrallment is no longer in existence as a song... Unless fascinate has changed to what enthrallment used to be... Not that bard didn't get any interesting new abilities!
    You also gain spellpower from the new skill spellcraft. Its quite possible to have more than 100 spell power in many elements now compared to just in 1 or maybe 2 before.

  8. #88
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    Deadlock - The enthrallment enhancement that you posted is not a song; it improves fascinate. I don't know if fascinate is now how enthrallment used to be however as I'm not on Lammania.

    Mikarddo - Thank you for clearing that up

  9. #89

    Default Nice Work!

    Awesome job on this.

    Thanks

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    Default Bittersweet Coolness

    I can imagine some really killer builds with this, kind of sucks I don't have the TP for a respec.
    I sort of feel this going in a sort of Neverwinter direction but in a good way.
    Great job Deadlock.

  11. #91
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMpuma View Post
    Kind of sucks I don't have the TP for a respec.
    Who needs TP every single character is getting a free LR+20 token...if you need to TR just grind out some Epic Tokens.

    Note: Be careful with multi-classes your considered to have your old classes still during the LR so if you had three classes you can't add a different one during an LR ie. a Rogue12/Monk6/Fighter2 can't become a Rogue12/Monk6/Ranger2)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  12. #92
    Community Member Moonsickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Who needs TP every single character is getting a free LR+20 token...if you need to TR just grind out some Epic Tokens.

    Note: Be careful with multi-classes your considered to have your old classes still during the LR so if you had three classes you can't add a different one during an LR ie. a Rogue12/Monk6/Fighter2 can't become a Rogue12/Monk6/Ranger2)



    As long as you know where you put the 2 Fighter levels in you could...


    example if you went ROG 2-MNK 6 then added FTR at 9&10, you could take ROG at 9&10 then making you ROG 4-MNK 6 leaving yourself with only 2 classes thus you could finish with ROG12-MNK6-RNG2 or any other [class]2.


    Only if you added both levels of Fighter at 18 or later would you not be able to complete that switch.
    Last edited by Moonsickle; 08-12-2013 at 09:11 PM. Reason: corrected last line
    You know I had been using the Superior Sarcasm font exclusively but it seems in a unannounced hotfix they slipped in the Sovereign Sarcasm font... keep up the good work guys!

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Note: Be careful with multi-classes your considered to have your old classes still during the LR so if you had three classes you can't add a different one during an LR ie. a Rogue12/Monk6/Fighter2 can't become a Rogue12/Monk6/Ranger2)
    Well I was pretty sure they wouldn't let you change classes during a LR but many thanks for this great info.

  14. #94
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonsickle View Post
    As long as you know where you put the 2 Fighter levels in you could...
    No thats the problem lets say you went RRRRRRRRRRRRFFMMMMMM (Rogue12/Monk6/Fighter2) and you want do this RRRRRRRRRRRRWWMMMMMM (Rogue12/Monk6/Wizard2)...it will stop you as soon as you try to take that first wizard level and say you can't have for classes since your already considered to be a Rogue/Fighter/Monk

    The way you desribe it is the way its SUPPOSED to work..its just bugged.

    Quote Originally Posted by HMpuma View Post
    Well I was pretty sure they wouldn't let you change classes during a LR but many thanks for this great info.
    Thats what you use LRs are for...to change classes. The +X is the amount of levels you can change IIRC the ones you can normally buy are +3 and +5.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  15. #95
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    Default And the rest?

    Where are the rest of the PrE's?

    Where are the Racial PrE's?

    Where is the "General" tree?

    What if I do not want a PrE?


    Have I seriously waited this long to STILL not have three PrE's per class and ONE racial??

  16. #96
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    Where are the rest of the PrE's?
    Still in development...despite the original point of the E-Pass being to allow them to get the rest of the PrEs done and for it to be quicker for them to make even more.

    To be fair though they did get ALOT done (About have the classes have 3 PrEs now)

    Arty got a new PrE and Battle Engineer is now complete (instead of just one tier) and unfortunately its quite underwhelming and the promised "construct essence line" only amounts to an ability that increase wep damage by 0.5[w] which has a long "cast" time and clears if you change weapons...its a tier 5...yeah thx guys. To be fair melee arties do get the choice of haste boost if they don't want endless fusilade. My fav ability by far is unfortunately a tier 5 one which removes the rune arm speed reaction too bad I'll never spend even AP to reach it.

    On the other hand Arcanotechnician is not bad (although Arachnotechnician which I continually mistakely mispell it it as would have been way cooler :P) its gets a bunch of new admixtures (i personally love em others hate em so up to you), and the of course the godly Arty capstone it also gets Lightning bolt as an SLA (as well as a few others...still no Electric AOE yet), The SP boost grants echoes of power and magical training, there's an ability that gives your ONE temp sp when you cast a spell...yeahs its dumb but its a core ability so your gonna take it and like it :P, it also includes an odd line that boosted the arty construct despite the fact that the arty dog has its on enhancements (which AFAIK still function like the old enhancements)



    Barbarian has got TWO new prestiges bringing them to 3 and is probably the best prestiges IMO especially Occult Slayer just so many fun and interesting abilities packed with mechanical and lore related awesome.



    Cleric is technically up 3 Prestiges from 1 but one is kinda of loathed and either they will get a 4th tree or that on will be replaced next Update (It's Warpriest BTW) can't say much beyond that really I haven't played clerics much.



    Bard actually lost a prestige :P but to be fair the resulting combo of SS and Virt made a pretty cool tree although the 2,3 & 4 cores are really meh (just add another creature type to your fascinate imo this should be rolled into ONE core ability than replace the other two with abilities that grant Cha to attack/damage and one that grants 1/2 of your cha mod to saves to add more virtuoso into the tree...it's like 99% Spellsinger)



    Druid two current prestiges are now completed but are still just meh



    FvS still only has one PRE and than a clone of that crappy PrE from cleric..so yeah one...as far as to whether its good or not I can't say as I haven't really played one.



    Fighter got a bunch of cool abilites with the E-Pass Kensai is one of the better Prestiges not a lore-filled as the Barb PrEs but it scales great making it attractive to Single-Class builds but still somehow presents some interesting Multi-class builds )as much as this forum seems to hate multi-classing)



    Monk unfortunately I didn't get much time to play around with but I know my Gamer Girl is salvating over the changes (except for the change to Rise of the Phoenix Auto-self Rez is nice but its cost is doubled 50->100 and you can't use it to rez allies...trust me the Monk with the massive saves dies far less than the Barb or Rogue she parties with)



    Paladin again haven't played much but opinions on changes seem approx 50/50 whether their good or bad so yeah no idea...they also lost a prestige though as HOTD & KOTC have been merged. I can't wait to hear what they plan to make for the 3rd Bard and Pally prestiges.



    Ranger I'd say made off pretty good AA somehow got better (despite the slayer arrow nerf), Deepwood Stalker went from meh to Pretty good..its potent but not overpowered so should be safe from the nerf hammer. I'm not so sure about Tempest but its looks like it might get some of its old glory back and has some interesting abiltieis for Dex-Based builds too (actually there's alot of love for Non-Str builds in both Racial and Class Trees)



    Rogue got some cool boosts all around Mech especially and since Arty's trees are fairly meh it might actually prove to be a competitor in the realm of repeater users.

    Assassin didn't really need much to boost it and whilst it got a few buffs I'd say its biggest "buff" is due to stealth mechanics being fixed (Warning: Assassinate is stilled bugged and doesn't work for ranged weapons)

    Its thief acrobat that made of like a bandit though..they got dex to attack/damage, boni to trip DCs (its minor but extremely flavourful), Boosted Crit multiplier and a few cool attacks



    Sorcs still only 1 Prestige (Savant) and their still fairly generic BUT you can turn into an elemental now..no complaints apparently their second PrE is coming in Update 21 (the cleric warpriest is coming in U20)



    Wizard kind got shafted AMs are FORCED to take the SLAs now and can't opt to just have the extra SP instead and is pretty much the same otherwise...useful mechanically but absoulutely barren of any interesting abilities...its pure numbers.

    Palemaster hasn't been nerfed really but almost all the new abilities are useless...the skele pet do get a big buff not sure if its worth the AP though aklo there's an "Improved Shroud" tier 5 ability that boosts some of the forms...so no real complaints about PM because it is technically better but its not worth the fact that were forced to put skill points into the HEAL skill to get our Negative Spellpower up (it plummeted on my PM compared to live)



    Oh and don't forget that you only need one feat for DMs now and some of them have some pretty cool side abilities in racial trees (ie. Dwarf gets Earthgrab) beyond that racials in general got some love.

    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    Where are the Racial PrE's?
    Just to clarify were not actually getting "Racial" PrEs anymore each race is just getting special access to class PrEs (ie. Halfling is getting Assassin so a Halfling Wizard could go around Assassinating things.) but no they didn't finish that either the only technically "new" racial prestige is Morninglord (who are elves for some random reason) getting AA. So yeah another DIVINE class got AA...hilariously wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    Where is the "General" tree?
    No where alot of abilities were randomly forced into a single PrE tree except a few which show up in multiple trees but most likely only because they ran out of ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    What if I do not want a PrE?
    Don't spend points in them...just take racial enhancements.

    So yeah overall they did do alot of cool stuff and got a work done but alot of it was really badly done or just plain boring.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-13-2013 at 01:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    Where are the rest of the PrE's?

    Where are the Racial PrE's?

    Where is the "General" tree?

    What if I do not want a PrE?


    Have I seriously waited this long to STILL not have three PrE's per class and ONE racial??
    Welcome to the party You're the last one here and there's no beer left, but there is a dusty bottle that either says poison or tequila but they're kinda the same so it's all good.

    You can have up to 6 PrE's and one racial. One racial isn't enough? Half-Orcs and Half-Elves don't get two racial trees and Dwarf-Orcs don't exist because they'd be an abomination to nature. And everyone would want one.

    You don't want a PrE? I thought you were complaining you didn't have 3 when in reality you can have 6? Not spending any AP or spending them only on Racial enhancements makes no sense with the new enhancements. It might be clearer if you see them for yourself. Which you will do on the 19th.

  18. #98

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    Simply outstanding, OP. Great work!

    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    No thats the problem lets say you went RRRRRRRRRRRRFFMMMMMM (Rogue12/Monk6/Fighter2) and you want do this RRRRRRRRRRRRWWMMMMMM (Rogue12/Monk6/Wizard2)...it will stop you as soon as you try to take that first wizard level and say you can't have for classes since your already considered to be a Rogue/Fighter/Monk
    He was saying you can do it, you just have to know when the levels were taken. In your example:

    RRRRRRRRRRRRFFMMMMMM

    You can switch to:

    RRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMWW

    And it works fine, leaving you in the 12/6/2 rogue/monk/wizard build as expected. The trick is to "overwrite" the 3rd class you're dumping with "extra" levels in one of the classes you're keeping that you haven't taken yet.

    This won't always work, like if you have 3 classes and want to switch one of them but you took a level in the class you want to switch at level 20. But it's largely functional.

  19. #99
    Community Member Moonsickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    No thats the problem lets say you went RRRRRRRRRRRRFFMMMMMM (Rogue12/Monk6/Fighter2) and you want do this RRRRRRRRRRRRWWMMMMMM (Rogue12/Monk6/Wizard2)...it will stop you as soon as you try to take that first wizard level and say you can't have for classes since your already considered to be a Rogue/Fighter/Monk

    The way you desribe it is the way its SUPPOSED to work..its just bugged.



    Thats what you use LRs are for...to change classes. The +X is the amount of levels you can change IIRC the ones you can normally buy are +3 and +5.


    If you RRRRRRRRRRRRMMWWMMMM it would work

    [at level 14 above your character would be technically a 12ROG-8MNK after replacing the FF with MM]


    you need to replace the 3rd class with one of the other 2 classes till there are none of the third class left and then add the NEW 3rd after that.

    [edit] Your example has you trying to swap F to W which would give you 4 classes... F to M would not.


    I've made a switch to an entirely new 3rd class from an existing 3-class build


    [edit] Also didn't fully read all the post after... Thanks to EllisDee37 for helping explain it as my post will a repeat.
    Last edited by Moonsickle; 08-13-2013 at 02:23 PM.
    You know I had been using the Superior Sarcasm font exclusively but it seems in a unannounced hotfix they slipped in the Sovereign Sarcasm font... keep up the good work guys!

  20. #100
    Community Member SiliconShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Just to clarify were not actually getting "Racial" PrEs anymore each race is just getting special access to class PrEs (ie. Halfling is getting Assassin so a Halfling Wizard could go around Assassinating things.) but no they didn't finish that either the only technically "new" racial prestige is Morninglord (who are elves for some random reason) getting AA. So yeah another DIVINE class got AA...hilariously wrong.
    Why is it wrong that a divine get's AA? AA skills are SLAs and they are open to Divine OR Arcane as long as they meet the other class/racial prerequisites. Morninglord Elves are Elves and are one of the MOST magical based races so it makes perfect sense and there is no hilarity at all in the matter.
    "(Party): [Party] Mislabeled: you were killed by Qrazydirections"

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