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  1. #1
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    Default Wizards vs Sorcs

    So, sorcs have more spell points, more damage buffs, and 1/2 the cool downs.

    So how much more damage using pure spell power do Sorcs put out over wizards?

    2x
    2.5x
    3x
    3.5x

    ???

    Also, can you get a SORC DCs 'similar' to a wizard for insta kill spells? How much worse is their DC casting? 1 point? 2? 0?

    As far as "power" a pure sorc, best race/build. vs best wizard race/build.

    How do they stack up, survivability, and damage, and utility?

    What about spell selection? Obviously 1/2 the wizard spells are never cast. how much of a sacrifice is it to be a Sorc?

  2. #2
    Community Member DynaTheCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    So, sorcs have more spell points, more damage buffs, and 1/2 the cool downs.

    So how much more damage using pure spell power do Sorcs put out over wizards?

    2x
    2.5x
    3x
    3.5x

    ???

    Also, can you get a SORC DCs 'similar' to a wizard for insta kill spells? How much worse is their DC casting? 1 point? 2? 0?

    As far as "power" a pure sorc, best race/build. vs best wizard race/build.

    How do they stack up, survivability, and damage, and utility?

    What about spell selection? Obviously 1/2 the wizard spells are never cast. how much of a sacrifice is it to be a Sorc?
    Wizards are better than sorcs.

    Pale master liches are hella hard to kill.

    Wizard DC will always be higher than sorc DC.

    Sorc has greater elemental dmg
    Wiz has greater force dmg / insta kill & enchant DC / survivability.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynaTheCat View Post
    Wizards are better than sorcs.

    Pale master liches are hella hard to kill.

    Wizard DC will always be higher than sorc DC.

    Sorc has greater elemental dmg
    Wiz has greater force dmg / insta kill & enchant DC / survivability.
    If they have 1/2 the cool down time...

    How could it ever be even close to a competition for damage?

    If we're talking Lightning for example... They can spam the spell 2x as often as me. If both our enhancements go to 100 for example, and we both get the same crit...

    It seems quite clear they are going to have 2x the damage. I think they have some elemental "boosts" in the air line that add vulnerability too. Seems to me they would be pushing over 2x the damage from the word go.

    As far as DCs, I would think since they don't get bonus feats they couldn't easily pickup all the greater focuses... So I would expect them to lose a DC or two, plus if WF a lower starting CHA for lower DC there. So I would expect a 2 or 3 point DC lead on Wizards.

    Has anyone ever tried to run the numbers?

    I see DPS numbers for melee types all day long...

    Where is the "Sorc, force, no ED, MM spam" vs equally geard "Arcane Magister, no ED MM spam" numbers?

    I suppose if you went back and fourth between lightning bolt, and chain lightning you may not see such a dramatic influx of casting time.

    However that would drive the mana costs up for the Mage, and give the Sorc more stay power.

    There must be some math behind this done? Maybe I'll have to do the math.
    Last edited by 350zguy; 07-08-2013 at 06:18 PM.

  4. #4
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Sorcerer vs Wizard

    Sorcerer gets the fewest feats/base abilities of any class - Limited to 7 Heroic Feats and 2 Epic Feats
    vs
    Wizard gets 7 Heroic Feats + 5 Wizard Bonus Feats + 2 Epic Feats

    Now the shear number of feats is not the point, the point is the limits each works within.

    Considering Max Caster Stats, equal race and not TR or ED abilities:

    Currently on Live only the Wizard gets +2 to Caster Stat for +1 DC to all schools

    Sorcerer's get improvements to their Caster Level of a specified element

    Outside of PrE's both classes have the exact same enhancements. So while a sorcerer can improve their damage (Raise its cap for more damage dice) in a single Element it also loses in it's counter element.

    So if only one element is chosen such as Lightning (Evocation) it is possible for the Sorcerer through EDs to have 4d {damage die} more than their wizard counterpart. Add in the Weakness curse and it can be more.

    However, even if both Sorcerer and Wizard take the same SF: Evocation/Grt SF: Evocation - Through PrEs and Capstone a Sorcerers DCs will be 2 Lower vs PM (Lich + Capstone) or 3 Lower vs AM (Primary school + Capstone)

    Depending on the Save Requirement of the spell and the Saves of the Target, this can make up 1/2 damage that is lost by Saved Spells.

    The other aspect is Spell Penetration - While most Damage Spells don't have Spell Resistance, the Wizards Feat Advantage allows for getting all of the Spell Penetration Feat Line (3 feats total)
    ------------------------------------
    Casting Speed:
    While a Sorcerer has access to spells at both a faster casting speed as well as cooldown. One of the misnomers is that they cannot cast as fast. Generally when "machinegun style" casting is needed as caster of any type is not using the same spell for the rotation. here they will use multiple spells.

    The advantage of the sorcerer is they need fewer spells for the rotation than the wizard counterparts.

    The advantage of the wizard is they have a larger pool of spells to pick from to enhance their casting - Including spells that incapacitate such as Greater Shout, Electric Loop and holds. This can potentially increase the amount of damage each cast makes.

    PM advantage in their SLAs is in it's ability to be a non-SP spell, as long as they have a way to preserve their HP (Aura for example) they have an unlimited ability to do damage as long as it is not immune to negative energy.
    ------------------------------------------------------

    Equally Geared and Stat'd a wizard will generally have 2/3's the SP of a Sorcerer. Most of the SP differences come with how Gear items improve spell points for each class.

    ------------------------------------------------------
    My basic point is they are different playstyles, both can be a lot of fun. If you like specializing in an element and seeing long extended fights of numbers the sorcerer is a good choice. If you like being able to be versatile and change up your role and chose the most effective "tools" out of your toolbox then the Wizard is a good choice.

  5. #5
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynaTheCat View Post
    Wizards are better than sorcs.

    Pale master liches are hella hard to kill.

    Wizard DC will always be higher than sorc DC.

    Sorc has greater elemental dmg
    Wiz has greater force dmg / insta kill & enchant DC / survivability.
    with the next update, wizard will also have higher elemental damage. furthermore, sorc survivability is also being eliminated in the form of scroll healing enhancement removal. definitely go wizard.

  6. #6
    Community Member DynaTheCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    with the next update, wizard will also have higher elemental damage. furthermore, sorc survivability is also being eliminated in the form of scroll healing enhancement removal. definitely go wizard.
    Yup.

    Also racial enchancement pass. Drow will get additional INT racial choice whereas they only have elven dex atm.

    This is going to mean that humans, even with human adaptability +1 int, will lack a lot more int than drow.....

    New enhancement pass will also give pale master additional shroud based INT (INT addition when lich form is on and etc).

    And additional neg invulnerability...

    I am so looking forward to my death aura healing like a god.... :O
    Last edited by DynaTheCat; 07-08-2013 at 08:21 PM.

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