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  1. #1
    Community Member darkovac's Avatar
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    Default Bladeforged 18FvS/2Pal

    Has anyone built something like this and does it have any sense at all?

    I want to TR 2 of my other alts before u19 to keep my ED XP and I want to have high lvl character for guild runs.
    Initial plan is to make fleshy healer but there is no chance to lvl it up fast without Otto/Bigsby box, and since Bladeforged starts at 15 it seems like good substitution.

    Initial Stats:
    STR 14
    DEX 6
    CON 16
    INT 12 --> Skill points for Con, Diplo, UMD
    WIS 12
    CHA 16 --> all lvl ups here

    Feats:
    Toughness, PA, Cleave/GCleave, IC Slash, Quicken, Maximize, Adamantine Body

    Any thoughts/tips/tricks? Would it be OK, or total gimp?
    I may be dumb...
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  2. #2
    Community Member Jeromio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkovac View Post
    Has anyone built something like this and does it have any sense at all?

    I want to TR 2 of my other alts before u19 to keep my ED XP and I want to have high lvl character for guild runs.
    Initial plan is to make fleshy healer but there is no chance to lvl it up fast without Otto/Bigsby box, and since Bladeforged starts at 15 it seems like good substitution.

    Initial Stats:
    STR 14
    DEX 6
    CON 16
    INT 12 --> Skill points for Con, Diplo, UMD
    WIS 12
    CHA 16 --> all lvl ups here

    Feats:
    Toughness, PA, Cleave/GCleave, IC Slash, Quicken, Maximize, Adamantine Body

    Any thoughts/tips/tricks? Would it be OK, or total gimp?
    What's the goal with the build? E.g. lots of people like to create a FVS as melee or evoker.

    This build will not be good at melee, and will fail at casting 95% of DC based spells. The only thing you could excel at is healing and buffing.

    Putting all lvl-ups in charisma will net you about 140-160 bonus spellpoints at cap compared to a starting charisma of 8. Those spellpoints are more or less neglible at cap when sitting at 3500+ spellpoints even with a dumped charisma.

    If you where to dump your wisdom and charisma, and put points into strength instead, you could make a decent melee FVS that would be 98% as effecient at healing as this build currently will be.
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  3. #3
    Community Member RD2play's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by darkovac View Post
    Has anyone built something like this and does it have any sense at all?

    I want to TR 2 of my other alts before u19 to keep my ED XP and I want to have high lvl character for guild runs.
    Initial plan is to make fleshy healer but there is no chance to lvl it up fast without Otto/Bigsby box, and since Bladeforged starts at 15 it seems like good substitution.

    Initial Stats:
    STR 14
    DEX 6
    CON 16
    INT 12 --> Skill points for Con, Diplo, UMD
    WIS 12
    CHA 16 --> all lvl ups here

    Feats:
    Toughness, PA, Cleave/GCleave, IC Slash, Quicken, Maximize, Adamantine Body

    Any thoughts/tips/tricks? Would it be OK, or total gimp?
    pretty sure you cannot, as of yet, TR into or out of a Bladeforged character. To my knowledge this feature will be implemented at the same time with EpicTR. so if you want to keep you EDxp (which I think they should let you keep anyway) and skip some content, otto's or bigby's box are your only possebilities.

  4. #4
    Community Member darkovac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeromio View Post
    What's the goal with the build? E.g. lots of people like to create a FVS as melee or evoker.

    This build will not be good at melee, and will fail at casting 95% of DC based spells. The only thing you could excel at is healing and buffing.

    Putting all lvl-ups in charisma will net you about 140-160 bonus spellpoints at cap compared to a starting charisma of 8. Those spellpoints are more or less neglible at cap when sitting at 3500+ spellpoints even with a dumped charisma.

    If you where to dump your wisdom and charisma, and put points into strength instead, you could make a decent melee FVS that would be 98% as effecient at healing as this build currently will be.
    Thanks tor tips.
    Goal of this is primarily to play healer in parties, dps (sword or evocaion) for shortmanning or soloing would be just a bonus. Other thing beside SP CHA would give me is enormous Saves, since I'm kinda forced to take 2 Pally lvls.

    Quote Originally Posted by RD2play View Post
    pretty sure you cannot, as of yet, TR into or out of a Bladeforged character. To my knowledge this feature will be implemented at the same time with EpicTR. so if you want to keep you EDxp (which I think they should let you keep anyway) and skip some content, otto's or bigby's box are your only possebilities.
    Didn't read my post well. I meant to keep ED XP of other two alts by TR-ing them before u19. This one is meant to stay on 25 (or 28 when lvl cap is increased) so I have option to play on high levels (guild EE runs and such)
    I may be dumb...
    @Thelanis: Guslar/Machkica/Cvr/Weadar

  5. #5
    Community Member Jeromio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkovac View Post
    Thanks tor tips.
    Goal of this is primarily to play healer in parties, dps (sword or evocaion) for shortmanning or soloing would be just a bonus. Other thing beside SP CHA would give me is enormous Saves, since I'm kinda forced to take 2 Pally lvls.
    For a pure healing FVS, the build will probably be quite nice, and as you say, your saves will be formidable (no laying on the back when getting comet falled ). Your UMD score will be quite good as well.

    Personally, I think that nearly any FVS can be made a good raid healer. However, I find it a bit more difficult on DC based builds, simply because of the limited number of spells you can take.
    For the kind of build you're planning, it should be easy cherry picking the most useful buffs, heals and resses. Blade barrier can still be nice to have if you can fit it in, at least during the mid teens when soloing, because the damage is still quite good even if mobs makes their saves.

    You've only picked 8 feats. I'd suggest empower healing as your 9th.
    Last edited by Jeromio; 07-08-2013 at 08:56 AM.
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  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Bladeforged are getting Reconstruct as a racial SLA in the Enhancement overhaul; when that goes live, I expect the Soul Survivor to be reborn as something along these lines.

    Your feat list looks okay; but I would dump WIS, drop Diplo, and lower CHA for more STR & CON. Something like 16 / 6 / 18 / 10 / 6 / 14 (hope I'm adding right) with lvl-ups in STR. Final feat: I would go with Emp Heal or Overwhelming Crit. If you wanted a more defensive / survivability-oriented build, I would swap the Cleaves for Shield Mastery & ISM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkovac View Post
    I want to TR 2 of my other alts before u19 to keep my ED XP and I want to have high lvl character for guild runs.
    There is no chance that the changes proposed to the TR system will be in Update 19. Their do not even have any plans to try to get it ready until Update 20, with the potential to push it back even further. They aren't even considering it for u19, so you have way more than enough time to TR one of your characters, get them to 28, and then TR another one before any changes to the system are made.

  8. #8
    Community Member Jeromio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    There is no chance that the changes proposed to the TR system will be in Update 19. Their do not even have any plans to try to get it ready until Update 20, with the potential to push it back even further. They aren't even considering it for u19, so you have way more than enough time to TR one of your characters, get them to 28, and then TR another one before any changes to the system are made.
    Sorry but the last said about this subject is that there's a 99% chance it will be part of u19.
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  9. #9
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Bladeforged are getting Reconstruct as a racial SLA in the Enhancement overhaul; when that goes live, I expect the Soul Survivor to be reborn as something along these lines.

    Your feat list looks okay; but I would dump WIS, drop Diplo, and lower CHA for more STR & CON. Something like 16 / 6 / 18 / 10 / 6 / 14 (hope I'm adding right) with lvl-ups in STR. Final feat: I would go with Emp Heal or Overwhelming Crit. If you wanted a more defensive / survivability-oriented build, I would swap the Cleaves for Shield Mastery & ISM.
    This ^ Frankly SCARES Me!

    I REALLY Wish they'd stuck with Minimum Base Stat requirements for classes when making DDO {and poss 3rd ed too},

    If Every Paladin absolutely HAD to have a 17 Base Charisma we wouldn't see Elitists telling people to DUMP said stat and put all points in Str/Con.

    If FavSouls were told that you simply can't be said class without at least 12 Base Wisdom and 16 Base Charisma I believe we'd have a far more balanced game!
    And yes this WOULD mean DC Based FavSouls suffering slightly BUT that could have been fixed with Feats/Enhancements etc. if the Devs had even considered balance!

    Gods and Divine Beings/Forces DON'T give people with a Wisdom of SIX the power of a FavSoul!


    Personally I'd suggest lowering Con and Int on the OP's Build for points in Str and Wis - 14 Base Con {before Tomes, gear etc.} is ENOUGH.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeromio View Post
    Sorry but the last said about this subject is that there's a 99% chance it will be part of u19.
    The only people who have said that are either the Trolls fostering doom mongering, or those who have been listening to the doomsayer rumors too much without checking things themselves. It has never been suggested in any way by a credible source that the TR system will be changed before Update 20. From the initial post regarding Epic TRing, and the change to Heroic TRing:
    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    I am excited to start sharing our plans for the future of the Reincarnation system! Later this year (targeting Update 20) we look forward to introducing two new TR destinations, Epic Destiny True Reincarnation and Iconic True Reincarnation. We’ve got some minor improvements involving Lesser and Greater Reincarnation in store, as well.


    We’ve seen a number of questions and discussions about TR, Iconics, and the TR / end-game gap. For the expansion pack, we are focused on ensuring that the new races are fun and playable, the content is fun and beautiful, and that the enhancement system changes launch as expected! With that, we plan to build out the TR system later in the year. The team is also taking the time to get your early feedback as the designers and engineers lock down feature plans. - How does this fit (or change) your playstyle? Read on for details, then let us know!
    Additionally, from the same thread they also announced that they are not even certain that TRing or ETRing will actually wipe Destiny XP, given the extreme negative reaction and support for Option 2:
    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Option 1: XP “Bank” System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one ED to bond and then transfers all other ED XP into an XP Bank that can be used at any time to level through heroic levels. Example: A character has five maxed ED’s at level 28. They Epic TR, bond one ED, and then get roughly enough XP to take them back to level 20 in their new life and still have, let’s say, 1,000,000 XP left over to use in their following heroic life (to use at whatever level they want). This option could also come with a onetime opportunity to bond multiple ED’s in one TR (to help those invested in the current system to transfer to the new).

    Option 2: Keep Epic Destiny XP System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one maxed out ED that he/she will acquire the Past Life feat for. This Epic Destiny is then flagged. (Starting out, you cannot get more than one copy of each ED’s past life feat.) The character then starts at level 1, but all ED XP is preserved at whatever levels it was at.

    We are considering more than just these two options, but we thought you might like to know a bit about what we are currently thinking. Thanks again.

  11. #11
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Response to Fan:
    You have to min/max in order to be a strong and viable build. Dump stats are nothing new and have always been existing in DnD, even stronger in DDO since you need all out combat prowess.

    Barbs with STR/CON maxed, else dump stats are considered mainstream, as are melee FvS with dumped WIS. If you cannot rely on past lives you have to dump stats regardless.

    The open end of boosting stats is the problem, but either you set minimum stats or put a cap on what max number can be achieved. In any way, you had less diversity and more clone warrior set ups, in everything starting from stats to itemization. The latter already is a problem but DnD always had a sweet spot and always will have one. Below you are gimp beyond you are god.

    DDO is still based on some DnD pillars and thus suspect to the same problem. Once you exceeded the sweet spot your power is growing exponentially and not linear. This is not really a problem for me. Hardcore gamers are pushing the envelope, other people never cross those lines and are within limits. In theory...

    To OP:
    Wouldn't roll a BF melee FvS right now. Too many things are suspect to massive changes. If anything, I'd roll a melee Artificer. Yes, that is a trend and you might consider yourself a copycat but regarding viability a melee Artificer provides every self sufficiency aspect of a melee FvS. Melee FvS only got wings and group healing.

    So, what about skipping melee FvS and instead go 2 Pal/ 1 Mnk/ 17 Clr for full divine spellcasting access and given the tree destiny a massive melee OPness. Due to your aura your tree form lasts longer than on any other class, probably.

    healing amp. items should not be a big problem at all any more. Little annoying stays the equivalent of 2 Pal pls regarding base divine healing so you are highly gear dependant and many body slots are fixed. This really can be destroying a concept. Maybe you are better of with an old school tanky melee THF build based on Pal/Ftr/Mnk. ;P
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 07-08-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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  12. #12
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeromio View Post
    Sorry but the last said about this subject is that there's a 99% chance it will be part of u19.
    We are (still) NOT planning changes to reincarnation as part of Update 19.

  13. #13
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Response to Fan:
    You have to min/max in order to be a strong and viable build. Dump stats are nothing new and have always been existing in DnD, even stronger in DDO since you need all out combat prowess.

    Barbs with STR/CON maxed, else dump stats are considered mainstream, as are melee FvS with dumped WIS. If you cannot rely on past lives you have to dump stats regardless.
    Forget the rest - This is the issue...

    FavSouls are STILL FavSouls even when they choose to specialize in Melee Combat!
    They should STILL be expected to have a Minimum Wisdom that's not considered a Negative {1st and 2nd Ed. Human Average Stats were 9 - DDO has lowered this to 8 BUT mainly because Odd Numbers are pointless in the system DDO uses}.

    A FavSoul with a 6 Wisdom just Does Not Compute - Does Not make any sense to me whatsoever!

    You talk about Min/Maxing as though it's an absolute that is irrefutable for all characters!

    I say that Obviously Fighters should be getting their Str and Con as high as reasonably possible {Barbs too} BUT I come from an Era where Int was a much more valuable stat for EVERYONE {The Higher your Int the MORE Proficiencies you could have - Before D&D went Skills Based}.
    So I can easily see a highly Intelligent Fighter using Tactics and Knowledge instead of Brute Strength {Not available in DDO!}.

    However I'm talking about FavSouls NOT Fighters and for me FavSoul is a Prestige Class {like Paladin and Ranger} that SHOULD be harder to qualify for.


    Most of the issues for Vets with Rangers and Paladins that I can see stem simply from the fact that these MAD Classes require certain stats that Newbies are unlikely to realise until too late {And NOT the stats that you'd instantly expect coming from a PnP Background!}.
    Rangers and Dex being the Obvious and Glaring Example!

    IF Paladins and Rangers had been made from the start...Classes that could ONLY be qualified for if you had 32pt Build say AND had earned enough favour as a Cleric or Fighter for Pally OR as a Rogue or Fighter for Ranger {TRs not available back then of course} then this would have been alleviated somewhat!

    IF FavSouls had {Instead of Being Pay to Play} Been available only after you'd TRd at least Once {as a Cleric} then A Minimum Stat requirement would have been a possibility for the Devs to look at!

    Same for Artificer and Rogue.

    Things like this would have ALLOWED the Devs to make the Paladin closer to it's PnP equivalent in Power because it would have been an EARNED Bonus.
    Paladins SHOULD be Fighters with Bonuses as opposed to their current form as Fighters with PENALTIES!
    Rangers SHOULD be able to Find and Disable Traps {They can in PnP - Snares and Pits} though NOT Open Locks!
    Bards SHOULD get Open Locks as a Class Skill!
    Why exactly do Monks NOT get Religious Lore? {New ability I know} - Shinto especially SHOULD be able to Disable Altars in Lords of Dust etc.!

  14. #14
    2014 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We are (still) NOT planning changes to reincarnation as part of Update 19.
    I'm looking forward to hearing more on your design for Epic TR, though. Currently I've been playing a lot less, because under the proposals put forward
    a) earning Epic XP now is pointless (if Epic XP gets wiped on TR), and
    b) doing Heroic TRs now is pointless for me (if I will automatically have to get 11 Heroic past lives anyway while getting Destiny past lives, and I don't need that many more).

    No, I haven't quit the game, but it is a downer to feel than any effort I expend now will be wasted. Please release an updated Epic TR design plan as soon as you reasonably can.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Forget the rest - This is the issue...

    FavSouls are STILL FavSouls even when they choose to specialize in Melee Combat!
    They should STILL be expected to have a Minimum Wisdom that's not considered a Negative {1st and 2nd Ed. Human Average Stats were 9 - DDO has lowered this to 8 BUT mainly because Odd Numbers are pointless in the system DDO uses}.

    A FavSoul with a 6 Wisdom just Does Not Compute - Does Not make any sense to me whatsoever!

    You talk about Min/Maxing as though it's an absolute that is irrefutable for all characters!
    this isnt 1/2e, 3.5 made it possible to have a wide array of ability scores, and had multiple ways to set them up, by rolling 3 6-sided dice and taking the number (or 4 and dropping lowest for a generous DM), or by starting with a stat of 8, and using points to spend much like the DDO uses (this method is in the DMG, the very first method listed)

    as for negative ability scores, I'd agree if things (Like HP/Saves) were more in a pnp setting, although that'd make quick battles, in an MMO it becomes difficult to do so things like min/maxing are required for end game EE, maybe not to a point that alot of classes are said to require but without dropping a useless stat (which since the game allows to cast spells as long as the ability score is high enough with an item) then EE would be almost undoable for alot of classes. the sheer necessity of spending every single point that you can spare warrents this.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I say that Obviously Fighters should be getting their Str and Con as high as reasonably possible {Barbs too} BUT I come from an Era where Int was a much more valuable stat for EVERYONE {The Higher your Int the MORE Proficiencies you could have - Before D&D went Skills Based}.
    So I can easily see a highly Intelligent Fighter using Tactics and Knowledge instead of Brute Strength {Not available in DDO!}.
    ... this isnt 2e, nor ever was it even close to being, Honestly I like the skill based systems alot more then the old proficiencies of 2e, it makes for alot more viable stuff. in 2e if your DM wasnt generous most people wouldn't have even been able to build a fire if they didnt take the proficiency. 3/3.5 skill system allowed for the characters to do alot more basic things without wasting needed game mechanics on it, which in turn made it easier for the DM as well since practically everything was listed.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    However I'm talking about FavSouls NOT Fighters and for me FavSoul is a Prestige Class {like Paladin and Ranger} that SHOULD be harder to qualify for.

    Most of the issues for Vets with Rangers and Paladins that I can see stem simply from the fact that these MAD Classes require certain stats that Newbies are unlikely to realise until too late {And NOT the stats that you'd instantly expect coming from a PnP Background!}.
    Rangers and Dex being the Obvious and Glaring Example!
    ... fvs are not a prestige class, not sure if they were in 2e, dont remember them being int hat edition, but in 3/3.5 (WHICH DDO is loosely based on) they were an actually class, not a prestige.

    and, I dont understand what you mean by rangers/dex being an example. in 3.5 there was technically 2 ways to build a ranger, either as a ranged chacter or a melee. since at certain levels they could tkae a combat style feat which associated with either of the styles. obviously for a ranger that goes melee dex isnt a requirement (even for feats, since both Dnd 3.5, as well as DDO give them the combat style feat (DDO Actually gives both) even if they dont meet the dex requirements). if they go ranged then dex should have some requirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    IF Paladins and Rangers had been made from the start...Classes that could ONLY be qualified for if you had 32pt Build say AND had earned enough favour as a Cleric or Fighter for Pally OR as a Rogue or Fighter for Ranger {TRs not available back then of course} then this would have been alleviated somewhat!
    I dont understand this. honeslt NONE of the classes require knowledge of any of the other classes, so why would anyone think its a good idea to require someone to play 2 different classes to qualify for a third that has nothing to do with either of them? A ranger isnt a rouge/fighter. and a paladin isnt a cleric/fighter, no where even close.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Things like this would have ALLOWED the Devs to make the Paladin closer to it's PnP equivalent in Power because it would have been an EARNED Bonus.
    Paladins SHOULD be Fighters with Bonuses as opposed to their current form as Fighters with PENALTIES!
    Rangers SHOULD be able to Find and Disable Traps {They can in PnP - Snares and Pits} though NOT Open Locks!
    Bards SHOULD get Open Locks as a Class Skill!
    Why exactly do Monks NOT get Religious Lore? {New ability I know} - Shinto especially SHOULD be able to Disable Altars in Lords of Dust etc.!

    been awhile since I played 2e, have been playing 3.5, so Im not sure if barbs get open lock then in 2e, but in 3.5 they dont. nor should they. The knowledge of picking a lock is far above what most barbarians are capable of or woudl even think to do. they'd more then likely bash down the door, which is entirely possible to do in alot of quests.

    paladins in their current form do got some bonuses, but would have to agree that it could be better, the way the fighter gets extra feats puts him in a much higher positiion with how feats work since a fighter can be versatile.

    Rangers, or rather any character 'could' disable simple traps, but ANY trap above a dc of 20 was only possible with a rogue. not even rangers could disable pit traps or snares if their dc was above 20.

    monks may be able to take knowledge religion, but religious lore is different matter. monks dont seek thier power through faith from a diety, but rather within their own soul. that wouldnt constitute a knowledge of how certain divine powers work.

    bards dont gain open locks in 3.5 as a class skill either, nor is their a point. Their main focus isnt about breaking into places, so if they do go that route then more then likely their not focusing fully on being a bard and are most likely to multiclass.

  16. #16
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    They should STILL be expected to have a Minimum Wisdom that's not considered a Negative {1st and 2nd Ed. Human Average Stats were 9 - DDO has lowered this to 8 BUT mainly because Odd Numbers are pointless in the system DDO uses}.
    (A) I'm pretty sure min. stat. pre-reqs for classes were phased out in 3E, which is already 13 years old and is what DDO is based on. Heck, with WotC working on 5E, we don't need DDO's ruleset to be any more regressive than it already is!
    (B) At this point, why bother with the pretense DDO bears more than a passing resemblance to PnP D&D anymore?

    I base my builds on how DDO works; not how it used to work or how it's going to work or how I wish it works, but how it works today. And spreading your stats around because that's how PnP worked 15+ years ago is foolish (IMHO); even if you're not into minmaxing (I'm not), it's still a waste of build pts.

  17. #17
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    (A) I'm pretty sure min. stat. pre-reqs for classes were phased out in 3E, which is already 13 years old and is what DDO is based on. Heck, with WotC working on 5E, we don't need DDO's ruleset to be any more regressive than it already is!
    (B) At this point, why bother with the pretense DDO bears more than a passing resemblance to PnP D&D anymore?

    I base my builds on how DDO works; not how it used to work or how it's going to work or how I wish it works, but how it works today. And spreading your stats around because that's how PnP worked 15+ years ago is foolish (IMHO); even if you're not into minmaxing (I'm not), it's still a waste of build pts.
    I fully understand that DDO encourages Min/Maxing.

    I just happen to feel that in some ways it goes way too far.

    AND when it comes to Newbies being advised on these Forums to DUMP Wisdom to 6 on a FavSoul I just have to make this point....
    A FavSoul with 6 Wisdom simply cannot be a FavSoul - No Deity/Divine Force whathaveya would give abilities the like of which a FavSoul has to someone who's barely wiser than a 6 year old!

    And yes I know this isn't 2nd Ed {and I've seen and heard more than enough people saying it's nothing like 3.5 too} - I just feel that in certain ways some of the stuff from 2nd Ed would make a heck of a lot of sense in DDO.

    And as for Proficiencies - Once you knew a Proficiency - You KNEW it - If you chose not to take Fire-Building then too d@rn right you couldn't build a fire - We're Not talking about Gas or Electric here!
    Of course...It would be a very strange adventuring group where NO-ONE had thought to take said proficiency!


    I played the early Computer Games based on D&D and I can honestly say that even though I personally hate everything to do with 3rd Ed PnP it certainly does adapt far better to a computer game than 2nd Ed ever could*.
    On the other hand I still feel that there are some things in 2nd {and earlier} that the Devs could do well to consider!

    *Advances in Computers could be the reason for this though BUT I'm giving 3.5 the benefit of the doubt considering I still adore DDO even with all it's faults!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I fully understand that DDO encourages Min/Maxing.

    I just happen to feel that in some ways it goes way too far.

    AND when it comes to Newbies being advised on these Forums to DUMP Wisdom to 6 on a FavSoul I just have to make this point....
    A FavSoul with 6 Wisdom simply cannot be a FavSoul - No Deity/Divine Force whathaveya would give abilities the like of which a FavSoul has to someone who's barely wiser than a 6 year old!

    And yes I know this isn't 2nd Ed {and I've seen and heard more than enough people saying it's nothing like 3.5 too} - I just feel that in certain ways some of the stuff from 2nd Ed would make a heck of a lot of sense in DDO.

    And as for Proficiencies - Once you knew a Proficiency - You KNEW it - If you chose not to take Fire-Building then too d@rn right you couldn't build a fire - We're Not talking about Gas or Electric here!
    Of course...It would be a very strange adventuring group where NO-ONE had thought to take said proficiency!


    I played the early Computer Games based on D&D and I can honestly say that even though I personally hate everything to do with 3rd Ed PnP it certainly does adapt far better to a computer game than 2nd Ed ever could*.
    On the other hand I still feel that there are some things in 2nd {and earlier} that the Devs could do well to consider!

    *Advances in Computers could be the reason for this though BUT I'm giving 3.5 the benefit of the doubt considering I still adore DDO even with all it's faults!
    Debating the semantics of 2E vs 3/3.5 is a pointless waste of time. This game is based on 3/3.5. Yes, you have heard it before but it's apparently not sinking in. Bringing up old edition rules only place would be in the suggestion board where you can fruitlessly try to persuade the devs into re-coding the game into something 20ish years ago. Hey, I get it, I grew up on the stuff too. But, that's not this game, adapt or move on.

    Considering your point on how a Deity would never allow a FvS with 6 wisdom, that's just a biased, unclever DM. Even in pnp you think that it couldn't be reasonably introduced? A shining emmisary of the gods to some wasteland group of nomadic barbarians where a wisdom of 8 would be considered a great scholar, leads his people to the promised land with his/her great martial prowess, devout teachings and magnetic charisma.

    Or just consider the Diety in question...would a god of war care more for his prophets wisdom or his strength? So many ways to make it reasonable and plausabile. You need to think outside the box more. Even a min/maxer can RP
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    Debating the semantics of 2E vs 3/3.5 is a pointless waste of time. This game is based on 3/3.5. Yes, you have heard it before but it's apparently not sinking in. Bringing up old edition rules only place would be in the suggestion board where you can fruitlessly try to persuade the devs into re-coding the game into something 20ish years ago. Hey, I get it, I grew up on the stuff too. But, that's not this game, adapt or move on.

    Considering your point on how a Deity would never allow a FvS with 6 wisdom, that's just a biased, unclever DM. Even in pnp you think that it couldn't be reasonably introduced? A shining emmisary of the gods to some wasteland group of nomadic barbarians where a wisdom of 8 would be considered a great scholar, leads his people to the promised land with his/her great martial prowess, devout teachings and magnetic charisma.

    Or just consider the Diety in question...would a god of war care more for his prophets wisdom or his strength? So many ways to make it reasonable and plausabile. You need to think outside the box more. Even a min/maxer can RP
    Personal attacks eh False?

    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    that's just a biased, unclever DM.
    Sorry but this ^ just doesn't pass muster.

    A Barbarian FavSoul would have to have serious Willpower {Wisdom - Charisma and Force of Personality is No Good if you don't know what you're talking about and will just lead to you losing the War anyway} to make his people listen to him - Strength alone is NEVER Enough {Especially in Barbarian Cultures...Where a Stronger man {or woman} is always JUST ROUND THE CORNER!}

    A God of War {most of them in Mythology} WOULD Care about his/her Speaker's Wisdom {possibly Intelligence too} as Wars are Won through more than just Brute Strength and a Deity would certainly know this!

    PLUS - In Barbarian Cultures Strength is the Forte of the Warriors {and the Chieftain} BUT who does the Chieftain {and his/her warriors} look to for Advice when it's needed?
    Another Strong Warrior with No Wisdom?
    OR
    Someone who knows {and has proved so in the past} what to do?

    Same goes for Charisma - The Chieftain {no matter how strong he/she is} will still fall if he/she's Non-Charismatic!
    When it comes to G-ing up the Warriors said Chieftain has that talent in abundance - He/She doesn't NEED the Grand Vizier for that!


    AND The Deity/Force Knows this!
    So...When looking for it's Speaker on Earth ISN'T going to take just anyone!
    ISN'T going to look for the Strongest or the Most Charismatic {although these talents certainly won't be overlooked - A weakling or someone with the Charisma of myself for instance ISN'T going to be picked either!}.
    NO.
    The choice is Obvious!

    A Cleric of a God/Goddess/Force is Someone who devotes their life to aforesaid - Someone who spends years in prayer and learning.
    A Favoured Soul is Someone Personally chosen by their Deity - He/She has NO Choice in the matter {and may have no knowledge of said Deity beforehand either!
    Said Deity is going to be very careful about the choice he/she/it makes.

    Anything else is sheer Political Correctness and Pandering to the No-one loses way of thinking {Well I'm sorry but we can't all be winners and I'm living proof of that fact!}

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    The choice is Obvious!
    Indeed it is! The deity is going to choose the most subservient fool he can find who will do his/her every whim and bidding without question and to be used as a tool in those situations when divine intervention or sending an avatar would cause too much trouble for the deity.

    So yes, the only thing special about Favored Souls is that they have direct line of communication to their deity, which in turn has a tendency to make them glorified puppets their deity can use as tools to subvert direct intervention in order not to anger their rivals.

    Independent thought and all such nonsense would just get in the way of their divine plans anyway.

    OT: If a high charisma caster types are your thing, consider a Light-spell based Dragonmark of Finding build. SAD and credit to the team in a single neat build. Just need to be a human or a half-orc to pull off the dragonmarked bit.

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