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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    I have yet to hear from anyone who has purchased Bigby's Box following the discovery that it does not work like Otto's that they felt deceived in any way.
    That's not enough of an answer for you?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmitch5 View Post
    Hi,

    By the way please ask them why they made the
    Stones dissapear from the inventory ?* couple of
    Weeks after motu came out..
    I am not the kind of player doing TR everything 15 days and
    I would happily use my invisible Stone now...( and it is not there anymore )
    Those stones were set to disappear on a certain date even said so in the item description iirc

  3. #43
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowwer View Post
    Those stones were set to disappear on a certain date even said so in the item description iirc

  4. #44
    Community Member relenttless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    I have yet to hear from anyone who has purchased Bigby's Box following the discovery that it does not work like Otto's that they felt deceived in any way.
    The first thought that entered my head when Bigby's box was released was why are they called Bigby and not Otto?- The only inference I could draw from that was that they were different in some way.
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  5. #45
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    oh and /not signed

    The bigby's box works as intended.... get over it

  6. #46
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    First I have to say I like the OP - its well written and doesnt come off as the standard "im taking my ball and leaving" post Ive seen alot of regarding this issue.

    But I have to say this:

    The writing has been on the wall for a long enough time now where no one other than a pure honest to god newbie who has been playing for a month or two should have assumed this was going to work the same way the other XP stone did. The sheer number reworks that have turned into stealth nerfs over the years should have had people double, triple, quadruple, dodecatuple-checking this thing before impulse buying.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Oh Fed your awesome TY now... do you have a SS of the new stone and the otto's stone by chance? if not does anyone else that wouldn't mind posting pls

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowwer View Post
    Oh Fed your awesome TY now... do you have a SS of the new stone and the otto's stone by chance? if not does anyone else that wouldn't mind posting pls
    Sorry I grabbed that SS off the wiki, and I don't see a screenie of the new one there.

  9. #49
    Community Member Full_Bleed's Avatar
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    I would just like to congratulate Turbine for creating new and interesting ways to mislead a significant portion of their fan base and then turn the rest against those who were mislead. Instead of focusing on things that would be 100% universally loved and appreciated by their players (like more/better bags or being able to search/sort the TR cache), we have yet another self-inflicted wound.

    And, for the record, I will never buy any of those boxes. I think they undermine the entire rule set.

    But that doesn't mean I'm incapable of clearly understanding why reasonable people with reasonable expectations feel manipulated, mislead, and abused. This is a clear case of alienating the very customer base that these items were designed to appeal to.

    I think the OP's solution is more convoluted than is necessary though.

    Turbine should just offer refunds to those who haven't used the boxes they purchased or offer a 50% coupon towards additional boxes for each box purchased in the first week. Taking a little responsibility for "unintentionally" misleading your customers would be an act of good faith.

  10. #50
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    It seems clear to me that if all you have to offer to this thread is criticism and negativity, you should be posting elsewhere.

    The concerns of people who are in fact spending money on a product they have reasonable expectation functions in the same way as previous incarnations of the same product are not arbitrary ramblings of dissociative malcontents. Even entering this thread attempting to split hairs on player intent and expectation - effectively attempting to redirect the message into a debate that does not exist - gives me cause to question why you within the thread at all.

    The intent of this thread is to draw attention to an issue that has adversely and negatively affected the level of morale, trust, and participation of many players. Players who, through no fault of their own, relied on the expectation of a product to work in a way consistent with existing previous versions. No information given at time of release regarding the xp stacking being changed is interpreted as deception by omission by those I've communicated with. They, the purchasers, have many examples of the same being done with other products.

    Since you clearly do not understand this, you may be better served starting your own topic on the subject. Or continuing to provide input within the other threads that are in fact becoming arguments over player intent, p2win, cheating, and whatever else. I thank you for your input. Yet I must stress that you have not only misunderstood the purpose of this thread and it's proposed solution - you are also off topic.
    while i think your intentions are honorable. There was no official word on how ottos was suppose to work. So these people getting upset that xp bonus wont work are just people that complain about something unintended. The stone was suppose to do 8-16. anything extra was just that free. NOT intended. So these complainers cant say hey turbine you werent suppose to do that. how could you. that xtra effect was not advertised at all. So honestly they dont have to do anything taureen. Maybe they should fix otto's box as well so people would not be able to get that effect that is not advertised or no official word from.

    So unless turbine says this is an intended effect all their doing is reaping off an unintended effect. Sorry not trying to derail your thread or anything but i got 2 bigby boxes and 3 ottos all because i thought i was going to the level the stone of change says not level 18+ like the ottos. that was just a bonus. i wont get mad if it is taken away because yet again it was not stated you would go to 18 only 16.

  11. #51
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    Everyone seems to be missing the main points.

    1. Fan / Player base specifically asked for Otto's boxes for the holiday sale.

    2. Turbine rep said sure, but would release something even better.

    3. Said release was not Otto's and from the many responses on all the threads, it's a lesser product and was not received well.

    4. Bigby's is NOT Otto's and that IS clear (we all agree on this, what's with all the redundancy)

    5. DDO patrons felt jipped by the lesser product release.

    6. OP has offered a solution to that.

    7. Trolls get excited.

    No one said Bigby's is Otto's or vice versa. Not sure why everyone is repeating the same thing over and over and giving OP grief about offering a solution.

  12. #52
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full_Bleed View Post
    I would just like to congratulate Turbine for creating new and interesting ways to mislead a significant portion of their fan base and then turn the rest against those who were mislead. Instead of focusing on things that would be 100% universally loved and appreciated by their players (like more/better bags or being able to search/sort the TR cache), we have yet another self-inflicted wound.

    And, for the record, I will never buy any of those boxes. I think they undermine the entire rule set.

    But that doesn't mean I'm incapable of clearly understanding why reasonable people with reasonable expectations feel manipulated, mislead, and abused. This is a clear case of alienating the very customer base that these items were designed to appeal to.

    I think the OP's solution is more convoluted than is necessary though.

    Turbine should just offer refunds to those who haven't used the boxes they purchased or offer a 50% coupon towards additional boxes for each box purchased in the first week. Taking a little responsibility for "unintentionally" misleading your customers would be an act of good faith.
    i dont know what you mean they didnt mislead you about anything. sorry man but that statement is just bad. you got your advertised effect so please be quiet. they cant mislead you against something that isnt advertised. you got your level 16 that is all they advertised. nothing about that xp part can be tied to turbine at ALL.

    That xp that went with the stone from the otto box was a bug-a bonus xp perk that was not wai. You cant complain about something that is not OFFICIAL. if turbine had said the stone stacked with all xp bonus then yes you could say something but since they didnt. you got nothing.

  13. #53
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    I really don't see why anyone could have "reasonable expectations" that an item clearly stating it raises a character to lvl 15, does anything but raise the character to lvl 15.

    Anyone expecting something else should perhaps learn to read and not to expect some bug affecting an item.
    There is no good faith in the existence of a bug. Go to lawyer, they'll explain it to you.

    There was never a confirmation that Otto's boxes were WAI. If a dev had stated something like that, then - maybe - you could have a case of good faith based on reasonable expectations. Otherwise, you are just venting off on a misplaced concept of entitlement.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    I still don't see a reason why people buy these boxes? Why would someone pay NOT TO PLAY?
    While I share the sentiment of players should not be skipping content, I can understand, for example, someone on 15th life in a class they do not enjoy, using the box to get through it more quickly.

    The better question is why are the arbitrary xp levels set as they are and should they be changed? That is a debate for a different thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I'm fully expecting the undocumented madstone rage effect to be removed from those boots any update now. It's not mentioned on the item so it must be a bug, right?

    My point is that sometimes something that isn't documented can be working as intended. The devs have never said that Otto's stones were not working as intended, which is just as valid an argument for them working properly as stating that they are bugged because there is no wording on the stones specifically outlining how the xp should stack with bonuses. Until we hear from a Turbine rep on this matter, anyone suggesting how the Otto's stones are supposed to work is speculating at best.
    DDO's product descriptions have stunk since Day 1. They should be more complete and have been so criticized since the Store opened in 2009. Which brings me to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    First I have to say I like the OP - its well written and doesnt come off as the standard "im taking my ball and leaving" post Ive seen alot of regarding this issue.

    But I have to say this:

    The writing has been on the wall for a long enough time now where no one other than a pure honest to god newbie who has been playing for a month or two should have assumed this was going to work the same way the other XP stone did. The sheer number reworks that have turned into stealth nerfs over the years should have had people double, triple, quadruple, dodecatuple-checking this thing before impulse buying.
    I agree. Unfortunately, while I love the game, the DDO Store has been, for me, an example of a lack of transparency time and time again. It hasn't changed much and nothing indicates positive change is forthcoming.
    Last edited by Hafeal; 07-08-2013 at 12:00 PM. Reason: garmmar
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  15. #55
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    I was rather disappointed when I learned that these new XP stones do not function as the old ones did. It prevented me from purchasing one. However, I waited to see how they would turn out, since I've been taken in by Turbine before. It sucks someone had to be the guinea pig to test them, but it sure as hell won't be me.

    The only redeeming quality about the bigby's hand job box is the red cube pet. I really want one

  16. #56
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    I was thinking about buying a few boxes to save for later, but I am not sure how the boxes will work with the upcoming xp changes. Will the box continue to take me to level 15 or will I get the same xp as now which means I would end up below 15?

    I don't want to buy without knowing this and my question in the store feedback section hasn't been answered yet. Caveat Emptor.

    I am fine with the fact that the new boxes don't provide bonus xp beyond what the description says. The old bonuses were nice but more than Turbine intended. But since I don't plan to use a box now I am more concerned with how they may work with the future xp curve changes.

    It's hard for me to understand why people are complaining that they got something for free last time. You should be happy about what you got for free previously not disappointed that you don't keep getting free stuff you didn't pay for.
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  17. #57
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    In this thread:
    Even the most rabid fanboys agree, to avoid disappointment when dealing with Turbine you should read the fine print**, assume the worst possible interpretation of the stated deal, or at least wait a couple days and spend an hour browsing the forums to make sure the other players confirmed it works in the expected/acceptable way. Caveat Emptor.



    **and I mean ALL*the fine print.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Learn from it and move on . . .
    And what exact lesson should he learn from this . . . other than to never trust Turbine?

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    And what exact lesson should he learn from this . . . other than to never trust Turbine?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    And what exact lesson should he learn from this . . . other than to never trust Turbine?
    Personally, what I'd learn from this (though I'm not trusting enough in Turbine anywhere near enough to buy something right when it comes out) is to get a refund due to Turbine purposefully misleading me, and failing a refund, a charge-back...and then move on to something else.

    Interestingly enough, it only would have taken ONE STATEMENT to clear this up (Turbine stating that the boxes would not grant the additional XP)...and the cause of the original error was likely rushed coding anyways (adding the amount of XP needed to hit level 16, which puts it through XP bonuses, rather than simply setting your XP amount to the amount of XP needed to hit 16). In all honesty, from day 1 they should've been designed to query for the amount of XP needed to hit the intended level for whatever TR stage the character is on (after making sure the character is high enough level through a separate query), then simply SET the player's XP to that amount. It's a simple good programming practice (not allowing unintended variables to affect your numbers) that would've solved the problem before it happened. At the current point, it's a PR problem and not a dev problem, though...so PR needs to sort out those who were mislead before they lose them (and I seriously doubt this game can afford to lose more players so often).
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