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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    It does, and has been a known issue for quite some time...
    Your points are reasonable, but they aren't going to give you an Otto's box for it. You aren't going to find any empathy on the forums since people that don't buy boxes don't like. There seems to be a lot of people with AS and nothing to spend them on. Try posting your box for 1500 AS and see if it sells. I am not sure if people see the value in the box on the ASAH, but there are enough people with thousands of AS they got from trades and there isn't much to buy with those.

    At least you end up getting AS at a discount this way even though it's not what you really want.
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  2. #142
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    It's not about rules lawyering. It's about not being a hypocrite.

    It comes to what Turbine can expect from me we are sticking to the letter of the contract where it says they get 100 bucks annually for access to the game.
    I would not tolerate them interpreting it as 100 bucks or more, or interpret it to take as much money out of my account as they feel entitled too.
    I would not even tolerate it if they interpret me paying fifteen bucks a month in 2008 as permission to continue withdraw five extra bucks now because of the past precedence.
    It comes to what I get in return we don't rules lawyer and use my personal interpretation over the letter of the contract? I would not be very forgiving if they do it to me, so why should I feel entitled to doing it to them?
    Its less hypocritical and more ambiguous. We have seen eras of the game where Turbine allowed something to be more powerful than described, and WOULD NOT answer questions about whether or not it was WAI, because they knew full well doing so would have meant less sales.

    Remember sheers? Yeah they found out about that and took them right off the shelf right? Nope, actually they put them on sale first, sold a bunch knowing full well the broken use of them, then took them off the shelf. What is happening with the stones is very similar. Being aware of it, it kept being released periodically.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Its less hypocritical and more ambiguous. We have seen eras of the game where Turbine allowed something to be more powerful than described, and WOULD NOT answer questions about whether or not it was WAI, because they knew full well doing so would have meant less sales.

    Remember sheers? Yeah they found out about that and took them right off the shelf right? Nope, actually they put them on sale first, sold a bunch knowing full well the broken use of them, then took them off the shelf. What is happening with the stones is very similar. Being aware of it, it kept being released periodically.
    That's certainly one cynical interpretation of events.

    Another could be that they are under orders not to discuss exploits.

    Another could be that they have to be very careful what they say on the forums because you will get people trying to pick it apart for nuance that they can interpret and throw it back at them at a future date.

    The instance with shears is much more likely to be a case of the left hand and right hand not knowing what each other are doing as sales are determined by their marketing department and not QA. Sounds more plausible don't you think?

    Either way, failure to rectify a bug within an undefined timescale does not constitute an accepted precedent.

  4. #144
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    That's certainly one cynical interpretation of events.

    Another could be that they are under orders not to discuss exploits.

    Another could be that they have to be very careful what they say on the forums because you will get people trying to pick it apart for nuance that they can interpret and throw it back at them at a future date.

    The instance with shears is much more likely to be a case of the left hand and right hand not knowing what each other are doing as sales are determined by their marketing department and not QA. Sounds more plausible don't you think?
    Nope, because while the decisions are made by marketing, the implementation of those decisions was done by those who knew full well what that item was capable of doing when it was in the game. No intra company communication at all on that issue? Seems more plausible to me that the knowledge of what it did combined with the sale generated more revenue before removing the item.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Either way, failure to rectify a bug within an undefined timescale does not constitute an accepted precedent.
    Legally youre correct, however as far as best practice to maintain user headcount, LOL. It does set the expectation that this is how it is. Note also that they would_not_answer_the_question for OVER A YEAR as to whether or not the added XP was WAI. That question was posed many times. The information was there for a long enough time where anyone who didnt know, wasnt doing their homework.
    Last edited by Chai; 07-10-2013 at 10:57 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    So? There is not even the most obscure hint in the description of the Otto's Box that it can be used to level you /beyond/ 16 to begin with.

    The description of Otto's Box advertised it to instantly level you to 16, not 16 or higher. You being able to use it to level above 18 was something you got above and beyond the advertised value of the product.

    Only because somewhat gave you a little extra does not mean you now are entitled to always get more.
    I have not seen anyone claim that they are "entitled". I have seen people who want it to be the same. There is nothing wrong with people wanting a product to be as good as it used to be. The real issue from my POV is that Turbine will not give refunds to those who purchased the new boxes. As I said in another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    People are complaining because they formerly received more for their TP and now they are receiving less. This is a valid complaint and even moreso if it is true that Turbine is doing this intentionally.

    If a vendor is selling a bag of popcorn advertised as 10oz, but regularly overfills the bag, customers might like this and start buying more bags. If in the future the vendor decides to start only putting the advertised 10oz in the bag the vendor might be well within his rights to do so. But if the bag is opaque and a returning customer purchases the bag thinking (logically) that it will be the same as the other times he purchased the bag, that customer is also entitled to be upset. If that customer asks for a refund because the product is not as he expected, he should receive it. It is taking advantage of your customers to purposefully lead them to believe they will be receiving something and then not deliver AND not give refunds.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    This ^^
    Maybe you should read before you post. Anything, ever, again.



    Was it really too much for Turbine to just tell people before the release that the stones were not stacking like Otto's? I don't see why they wouldn't? Unless maybe they knew it would mean less sales initially.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    Maybe you should read before you post. Anything, ever, again.



    Was it really too much for Turbine to just tell people before the release that the stones were not stacking like Otto's? I don't see why they wouldn't? Unless maybe they knew it would mean less sales initially.
    I think they should just put it in the production description that bonus xp sources such as elixirs don't stack with this stone of xp. Very simple and very clear.

    If they believe the otto's xp stacking was an exploit, then they probably aren't allowed to discuss it as another poster said.

    however, if it's truly an exploit wouldn't this post be removed? People clearly discuss how to get more xp from the otto's stone in this post and many others that weren't closed.

    If they closed this thread we would know once and for all they consider it an exploit.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by unacceptable View Post
    If they believe the otto's xp stacking was an exploit, then they probably aren't allowed to discuss it as another poster said.

    however, if it's truly an exploit wouldn't this post be removed? People clearly discuss how to get more xp from the otto's stone in this post and many others that weren't closed.

    If they closed this thread we would know once and for all they consider it an exploit.
    I would be very interested if Turbine closed this thread because they considered the Otto's XP Stone stacking an exploit - since that would prove that they were purposefully selling something to players that they knew could be accidentally used in an exploitative manner.

    Only 5% of the players read the forums. Anyone who had an XP pot/ item / shrine going and used an Otto's XP Stone could not be proved to be exploiting. If they didn't know about the stacking and just had a timer still going / item on how or why would they necessarily know it would affect the stone?

    Someone claimed that other threads were closed because Turbine knew about this "exploit" but continued to sell it anyway. Time for a forum search.

  9. #149
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    I don't think you know who deserves what, if you did you wouldn't keep opening your mouth.

    They told us what exactly? That they didn't stack w xp bonus? Because that they didnt. They didnt say a single word on that.

    Sorry youre confused and in the wrong thread again.


    Now have yourself a nice life full of rainbow skittles raining on your magical christmas land where QMX and Cordo told consumers that their new stone was not going to stack like their old stones did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Bonus sources of XP do not stack with the Stone of Experience provided in the Bigby's Handy Box.

    How does your foot taste now?

    And he posted that at the exact time I said he did.


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    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
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  10. #150
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    How does your foot taste now?

    And he posted that at the exact time I said he did.

    When they post it on the forums a small percentage of people buying the item know it will not work the same way the last item with the SAME NAME does.

    When they put it in the item description, 100% of all people that buy it know it will not work the same way the last item with the SAME NAME does.

    They still havent answered the question over a year later about whether the XP from bonus items adding in more XP was WAI. Kind of odd, dont you think, to just leave that hanging for longer than a year, when the question has been asked multiple times in multiple threads over that same period of time.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post

    No freaking wonder people have 10 past lives... all they had to do was pay $50 U.S. for each life, and click a button.

    Corrected to reflect reality, not some fantasy world.


    Feel free to thank me further along in the thread.

  12. #152
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    As soon as I saw this box on sale I thought ,"Why did they spend the time making a new box instead of putting the Otto's on sale again?". Then I figured that the big draw for the Otto box is the Stone, which it seems obvious to me is not working the way they want it to. So I concluded they changed the Stone and the Bigsby Stone would work differently: by not providing the extra bonus XP.

    This took all of one second to figure out.

    Now, I read these threads about people surprised and upset about the way their Stones are working. I read that some people bought in bulk before even trying the Stone one time. I say to myself, "What were they thinking?"

    It has taken me much longer to figure this out. In fact, I still have no reasonable answer despite the many posts claiming to provide such.

    I conclude I am surrounded by crazy people. Please send help.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonko_the_sane View Post
    As soon as I saw this box on sale I thought ,"Why did they spend the time making a new box instead of putting the Otto's on sale again?". Then I figured that the big draw for the Otto box is the Stone, which it seems obvious to me is not working the way they want it to. So I concluded they changed the Stone and the Bigsby Stone would work differently: by not providing the extra bonus XP.
    Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back like that. Since there were other changes to the boxes, your conclusion is actually not so obvious. In fact, since many people purchased the stones BECAUSE of the stacking XP (which was widely known on the forums and therefore to Turbine), one logical way of thinking would be that since Turbine is so focused on making money these days they would of course keep the stones they way they were since so many people were buying them.

    See how different people can come to different conclusions?

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    How does your foot taste now?

    And he posted that at the exact time I said he did.

    Love reading your own posts over and over? What are you even on this thread for if you cant read what i wrote? Just to troll with how does foot taste? How childish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    told consumers that their new stone was not going to stack like their old stones did.
    Writing a line on the forum in response to a buyer's complaint thread AFTER the product went live ISN'T satisfactory, at all nor was it remotely in time.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuartermasterX View Post
    ...we will have something even nicer than Otto's Box this time around!
    ^This^ Was posted on 7/1, and the box came what... 2 days later?

    Then today, in response to:
    Quote Originally Posted by unacceptable View Post
    This box could definitely be viewed as nicer if the XP bonus stacking wasn't known by the person making the comment. That's what I believed happened here. The XP elixirs and lower price are definitely nicer.
    We get:
    Quote Originally Posted by QuartermasterX View Post
    Unfortunately this was the case. At the time of my post the design for Bigby's Box was different.
    This makes me really curious 1)What was the original package supposed to include, and 2)Why was it changed on such short notice?
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    Maybe you should read before you post. Anything, ever, again.



    Was it really too much for Turbine to just tell people before the release that the stones were not stacking like Otto's? I don't see why they wouldn't? Unless maybe they knew it would mean less sales initially.
    Yep I did read every p1ss and every moan

    my point being the Devs have already addressed the issue
    Last edited by Tanngiostr; 07-10-2013 at 11:21 PM.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    Yep I did read every p1ss and every moan

    my point being the Devs have already addressed the issue
    That's interesting.

    Could you elaborate on exactly how this issue has been addressed? Particularly for the people who bought many of these items right after the sale started. You know, before someone asked a Turbine employee why their box isn't working and got informed of the change in it? A change that wasn't documented in any way by item description or posting.

    I'm curious what the folks who dropped hundreds of dollars and recieved an item that had did not work as anticipated recieved. Because, if it's adequate and fair, I need to let them know about it right away.
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  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    That's interesting.

    Could you elaborate on exactly how this issue has been addressed? Particularly for the people who bought many of these items right after the sale started. You know, before someone asked a Turbine employee why their box isn't working and got informed of the change in it? A change that wasn't documented in any way by item description or posting.

    I'm curious what the folks who dropped hundreds of dollars and recieved an item that had did not work as anticipated recieved. Because, if it's adequate and fair, I need to let them know about it right away.
    the item worked as described to expect more really was just making an assumption and it didn't take more than 30 minutes for a Dev to answer the question of stacking in the forum when asked.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    the folks who dropped hundreds of dollars
    This just astounds me.

    I do want to thank all these folks for supporting a game I like though.

    I bought Underdark and Shadowfell, and I am VIP. But I don't drop this kind of cash. Can't. lol

    I don't necessarily think they "deserve" a refund or upgrade. But I do think it would be nice if Turbine did something out of appreciation for their customers. It ain't gonna hurt the rest of us for Turbine to toss these folks a little restitution.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    I'm curious what the folks who dropped hundreds of dollars and recieved an item that had did not work as anticipated recieved. Because, if it's adequate and fair, I need to let them know about it right away.
    Key word in bold. That's the problem for these folks. They saw the description (7-15) and thought "hahaha, but I know better than that!" and then found out they didn't actually know better and it only works as described. Was Turbine counting on that? Almost definitely. However, as the only players Turbine took advantage of were those who were seeking to -and likely had in the past- take advantage of Turbines short sighted stone coding, is it shady? Only marginally at most.

    These players who've been so egregiously wronged were simply trying to take advantage of (what they assumed would be) a flawed design, and instead got taken advantage of themselves by getting a (non-flawed) product that did exactly what it said it would.

    You will see no restitution from Turbine on this matter.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

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