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  1. #101
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    I AM concerned about the OPs response to the first "who cares" post. If someone doesn't want to see such responses they should send their posts as PMs instead.

    Many of us (note I'm not trying to speak for everyone here) just plain don't give a flying one about this issue, and in fact view these "power-ups" as a major detractor to the success of the game.

    If a poster can't handle disagreement with their position without accusing those who disagree of just being "negative nellies" who shouldn't respond if they have nothing good to say, then...

    Well, I'm not going to tell anyone what to do.
    I don't have an issue with disagreement. I do however have an issue with people taking the argument that exists in a few other threads regarding p2w, cheaters, and whatever else into this thread. Doing so highlights a lack of reading skills. Those issues were not what the thread was intended to discuss or draw attention to. The thread was intended to bring an issue to light that affected many I game with, and offer a proposed solution.

    Disagreement can be part of any discussion. Attempts to bring a completely different subject matter into this thread and argue it with me are not welcome.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
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  2. #102
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    Let me see if I understand what is going on.

    The OLD xp stones, "GIVE" XP, so you can use a experience potion, and get millions more XP when you click it.

    It never stated how it gave XP, it just did. It wasn't stated it was a bug, or anything. It said it would level you to 16, but in fact it gave you millions of XP. So people would pop a potion, and go right to 18, 20 or what ever.

    The NEW stones "SET" the XP to the appropriate number to do exactly what they state, take you from 7 --> 15.

    So you can't pop a potion, and get millions of extra XP.

    The OP is angry because the new stone, with a new name, sold in a new box doesn't have this "Feature" that wasn't ever documented on the product. And feels cheated?
    Angry? Not at all.

    Disappointed by watching people leave the game or seriously threaten to after spending funds they saved or had readily available to purchase a 'More Awesome' than Otto's box? Yes.

    I started this thread to offer a proposal and discussion around the proposal to find a middle ground between long term players I know or know of that feel misled and ultimately deceived.

    Some posters have consistently and mistakenly interpreted my words within this thread. I made a earnest attempt to even add some humor to post #1. Some of the replies in this thread leave me wondering seriously if the OP was read at all...
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  3. #103
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    Well shoot, I forgot the 10% VIP.
    Hell wait till bonus days get another 10%, does that work?
    I don't think they did actually. I used an Ottos durign the last xp bonus weekend. 15% as I recall. Didn't seem like I got any more than when i last used a box during a non boost weekend and I wasn't ViP.

  4. #104
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogMania View Post
    Well as far as I am aware a Stone from an Ottos Box STILL gives the xp bonus so I am not sure where you are coming from here Unless you know different of course
    I'm not even sure at this point. Seems to me that there is the possibility of adjusting the stone within the Otto's Box as well. Who knows really? Turbine has not commented regarding this insofar. It will be interesting to see what happens. And if any changes are made, whether it will be disclosed to the community. One round of people buying boxes in bulk and being surprised by unmentioned changes is enough in my opinion...
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    408,500 XP level 8.
    2,448,500 XP Level 16.
    -------------------------
    2,040,000 XP gained.... Best case
    +50%
    ---------------------------
    3060000 XP after POT
    -------------------------
    3,468,500 XP when done...

    Rank 87 I believe

    Level 18, rank 1.

    Yeah... I'll do that... i think I can TR 3x a week, pretty easy.
    It's worse than that, Jim.

    Consider a VIP Third lifer during a 20% XP Event.

    XP increase 8 to 16 = 2,040,000
    20% XP Event on = 408,000
    TOTAL SO FAR: 2,448,000

    50% Pot + 5% VOM + 5% Guild XP buff = 1,468,800
    TOTAL SO FAR: 3,916,800

    VIP 10% = 244,800
    FINAL INCREASE: 4,161,600

    So from 408,500 at Level 8, you end up at 4,570,100, possibly capped at 4,378,500, couldn't say for certain as never tried to exploit one as described.

    Obviously this is entirely WAI. Only an idiot would think that the developers didn't have this fully in mind when they brought out the Otto's boxes.

    So you can get to level 8 in 6 or 7 hours without too much hassle, pop a LR stone to reset your TR counter and do 3 lives in 24 hours. It's all a Machiavellian plan to sell Otto's Stone, True Druidic Heart of Woods, and Lesser Hearts from the store! OMG!

    They'd be as well just selling Past Lives in the store if they are going to allow this nonsense to continue, it amounts to much the same.

    Or ... maybe ... just maybe they've fixed the script called by the new stones and the script called by any existing stones still waiting to be used.

  6. #106
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    I'm not even sure at this point. Seems to me that there is the possibility of adjusting the stone within the Otto's Box as well. Who knows really? Turbine has not commented regarding this insofar. It will be interesting to see what happens. And if any changes are made, whether it will be disclosed to the community. One round of people buying boxes in bulk and being surprised by unmentioned changes is enough in my opinion...
    And if they were to change ottos, would it affect boxes already in circulation? If someone already bought 5 of them a few months ago, used 2 and still have 3, and the user buys 3 more 50% pots and it doesnt work. wooooo!!!....perhaps thats why they went to a completely different box altogether.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    They'd be as well just selling Past Lives in the store if they are going to allow this nonsense to continue, it amounts to much the same.
    +1

    That is what I'm basically saying, and in fact it's worse yet because only people who are in large guilds, lurk the forum, and try and 'exploit' every advantage knew this at all.

    Every other "noob" who took what the stone did at face value were in a sense duped as well.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    And if they were to change ottos, would it affect boxes already in circulation? If someone already bought 5 of them a few months ago, used 2 and still have 3, and the user buys 3 more 50% pots and it doesnt work. wooooo!!!....perhaps thats why they went to a completely different box altogether.
    This is part of the reason why i don't undersztand why people are upset with the Bigby Boxes. To me it seems like a better approach than nerfing the otto's boxes. Cordovan mentioned shortly after they were released that xp boosts didn't work.

    To me Turbine handled this well. The only thing they could have done better is be more up front about the fact that xp boosts will not work with Bigby Boxes as they did with previous stones of xp.

  9. #109
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Here's my take on this.

    First off, the original otto's stones pretty clearly weren't working as intended. Why didn't they say anything to this effect? Isn't it their general policy to not publicly discuss exploits?

    If someone bought one of the adventure packs specifically to take advantage of an exploit which existed in it, and after they bought it, the exploit was fixed, should they expect to return it on that basis?

    For all the people who are crying bait and switch, or fraud, or what have you. What exactly do they gain by changing the stone at all? It's digital merchandise not a chunk of gold that is now just a painted rock. It was actually more work to fix the code for the new stone than it would have been to just keep selling the old one. So i can't see any way there can be a specific financial motivation for doing this.

    On a side not, one thing i've never understood about how the otto's boxes worked. How do they adjust the amount of xp given related to how much is needed? For a first life, it's a lot less than it is for a tr, but it would take both to level 16, which means it awarded varying amounts of xp. So when people say it just awarded a static amount of xp, i guess i don't understand how it could do that.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    If "Caveat Emptor" is the defense for your actions you ARE swindling your customers.

    Regardless . . . what's the point of throwing a P2Win party if nobody shows up? They'd sell a hell of a lot more of these boxes if they worked like the old ones did.
    Swindling is actually a crime, and this was not.

    Caveat Emptor is a long held principle and is for nearly all commercial transactions in the U.S, the law of the land since the 1800s. Turbine doesn't have to defend any actions in this case. If you doubt this, go find a lawyer who would take this claim without laughing at you.

    Turbine can simply choose to ignore the minority of new product consumers who had these imagined expectations beyond the stated outcome. Those consumers can try to prove in the court of public opinion, because that's the only court available to them, that Turbine acted in bad faith and took some measure of unfair advantage of their foolishness, which while being neither fraud nor deceit sometimes is enough of a PR headache for a company to relent. That said, generally speaking, public opinion in the U.S. tends to fall more closely to the belief that "a fool and his money are soon parted" for a reason, than the belief that all transactions are required to be fair to all parties. Capitalism is inherently about taking advantage, fwiw...

  11. #111
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    this is an interesting thread.

    We managed to get "pay to win" and "pay to whine" all wrapped up into one thread.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    Here's my take on this.

    On a side not, one thing i've never understood about how the otto's boxes worked. How do they adjust the amount of xp given related to how much is needed? For a first life, it's a lot less than it is for a tr, but it would take both to level 16, which means it awarded varying amounts of xp. So when people say it just awarded a static amount of xp, i guess i don't understand how it could do that.
    Maths....

    It just took your XP, looked at how much you needed, did subtraction, and poof "awarded" that number.

    Then all the bonus effects you were under the influence applied.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    It's worse than that, Jim.

    Consider a VIP Third lifer during a 20% XP Event.

    XP increase 8 to 16 = 2,040,000
    20% XP Event on = 408,000
    TOTAL SO FAR: 2,448,000

    50% Pot + 5% VOM + 5% Guild XP buff = 1,468,800
    TOTAL SO FAR: 3,916,800

    VIP 10% = 244,800
    FINAL INCREASE: 4,161,600

    So from 408,500 at Level 8, you end up at 4,570,100, possibly capped at 4,378,500, couldn't say for certain as never tried to exploit one as described.

    Obviously this is entirely WAI. Only an idiot would think that the developers didn't have this fully in mind when they brought out the Otto's boxes.

    So you can get to level 8 in 6 or 7 hours without too much hassle, pop a LR stone to reset your TR counter and do 3 lives in 24 hours. It's all a Machiavellian plan to sell Otto's Stone, True Druidic Heart of Woods, and Lesser Hearts from the store! OMG!

    They'd be as well just selling Past Lives in the store if they are going to allow this nonsense to continue, it amounts to much the same.

    Or ... maybe ... just maybe they've fixed the script called by the new stones and the script called by any existing stones still waiting to be used.
    I was told that the bonus weekend xp didn't work. I never used one on a bonus xp weekend, but i trust the person that told me.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by unacceptable View Post
    he only thing they could have done better is be more up front about the fact that xp boosts will not work with Bigby Boxes as they did with previous stones of xp.
    This is the entirety of the issue - right here. As for "more" up front, I am looking at the description of the Bigby's box (https://www.ddo.com/en/news/limited-...%99s-handy-box) and in-game and there is not even an obscure hint that the XP Stones don't work the same as Otto's. If I was going to buy it, how/why would I have even a remote idea?

    I mean even this would have been better (not ideal):

    "The Stone of Experience allows level 7 or higher characters to immediately level up to level 15!*


    <way down at bottom>
    *Only"

  15. #115
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    And if they were to change ottos, would it affect boxes already in circulation? If someone already bought 5 of them a few months ago, used 2 and still have 3, and the user buys 3 more 50% pots and it doesnt work. wooooo!!!....perhaps thats why they went to a completely different box altogether.
    this makes sense, but it totally squashes my theory Bigbys was so Iconics would have some friends to play with.

  16. #116
    Community Member DogMania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    It's worse than that, Jim.

    Consider a VIP Third lifer during a 20% XP Event.

    XP increase 8 to 16 = 2,040,000
    20% XP Event on = 408,000
    TOTAL SO FAR: 2,448,000

    50% Pot + 5% VOM + 5% Guild XP buff = 1,468,800
    TOTAL SO FAR: 3,916,800

    VIP 10% = 244,800
    FINAL INCREASE: 4,161,600

    So from 408,500 at Level 8, you end up at 4,570,100, possibly capped at 4,378,500, couldn't say for certain as never tried to exploit one as described.

    Obviously this is entirely WAI. Only an idiot would think that the developers didn't have this fully in mind when they brought out the Otto's boxes.

    So you can get to level 8 in 6 or 7 hours without too much hassle, pop a LR stone to reset your TR counter and do 3 lives in 24 hours. It's all a Machiavellian plan to sell Otto's Stone, True Druidic Heart of Woods, and Lesser Hearts from the store! OMG!

    They'd be as well just selling Past Lives in the store if they are going to allow this nonsense to continue, it amounts to much the same.

    Or ... maybe ... just maybe they've fixed the script called by the new stones and the script called by any existing stones still waiting to be used.
    XP bonus days/weekends had no effect at all, max you could hit was rank 91

  17. #117
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    this makes sense, but it totally squashes my theory Bigbys was so Iconics would have some friends to play with.
    It still makes business sense to code Bigbys stone the way they did level wise if they have identified they can make a profit off people wanting to go straight to 15. I still wonder why ottos wasnt coded to start at 7, with Vet2 being a free ride to 7 and all.

    If it is intended to work the way they both do with ottos benefitting from xp boosts while bigbys does not, they should at least rename the stones to ottos stone and bigbys stone. Or at least let us know if the ottos stones will receive a nerf so we can all get rich quick buying shares of Orville Redenbacher
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #118
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    I don't have an issue with disagreement. I do however have an issue with people taking the argument that exists in a few other threads regarding p2w, cheaters, and whatever else into this thread. Doing so highlights a lack of reading skills. Those issues were not what the thread was intended to discuss or draw attention to. The thread was intended to bring an issue to light that affected many I game with, and offer a proposed solution.

    Disagreement can be part of any discussion. Attempts to bring a completely different subject matter into this thread and argue it with me are not welcome.
    /sigh While I can understand all of this... My first post in this thread, in fact the first "negative" post in this thread which the person you quoted was referring to didn't bring any of this into the thread.

    I stated how I thought paying to not play the game was absurd, yes, but this has nothing to do with cheating, P2W, or any of that. It's just something I simply do not understand. To me it's the equivalent of paying 60$ for a really good RPG game, and skipping straight to the end boss. I think that is strange is all.

    The rest of my post was to point out what most of the people in this thread have been trying to point out. You got what you payed for, and it does what it stated it would. You have no case, and no basis for being upset except you didn't get your cake and eat it too.

    IE. I disagreed with the very premiss of this "issue" as you call it, and you told me to leave your thread because of this.
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  19. #119
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Or at least let us know if the ottos stones will receive a nerf so we can all get rich quick buying shares of Orville Redenbacher
    P2W the forums stock up on popcorn now.

  20. #120
    Community Member DogMania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    pop a LR stone to reset your TR counter
    Looks like I dibbed out on that 1 as I had no idea a LR reset a TR counter

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