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  1. #1
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    Default Impression after a few years of playing DDO

    Here's a few things I've noticed that are really getting annoying, even more so for my friend who just logged out in a rage....

    Hirelings are buggier than ever. as an example Miranda lvl 12 clr seemed fixated on one spot and even when called she would immediately run back to that spot and do nothing else.
    Hirelings seem to stop working more than 60 percent of the time. they don't heal, don't attack...... the don't even follow,
    Hireling buttons often stop working, these are the 4 back end buttons for skills ie firewall, summon monster etc etc. they just seem to stop working, you can't click on them to even force heals,
    Healer hirelings are still more interested in fighting (when they are actually working) than healing, doesn't matter what mode the are set on, aggressive, defend or passive) and then when they do heal they get stopped because they get hit, while they're standing in a group fighting when they shouldn't be. Healer hireling should heal only, especially when on passive, but then they just do nothing. Often times you have to change modes several times to get them to react...... and by that time you are trying to force rezzing a party member that died while trying to get them to heal
    Pathing for hirelings is still bad. they run through areas where floors have fallen out ie inside Chambers of Raiyum quest, or won't pass through doors or removed barriers, get stuck on steps. even in open spaces like in Diplomatic impunity they run circles around the rest shrine seeming to be unable to find that perfect spot.
    Hireling don't seem to like resting period, in addition to above they never seem to want to actually sit at a rest shrine more than half the time.
    At first i thought i could blame my pc, but i have a brand new pc much more powerful than i need for playing this game so i can't blame it anymore.

    Magic...... oh where to start.....
    Defences against magic seem very piddly compared to magical offence. An air Savant sorcerer for example can do thousands of points of damage, and the only defend is either move or reflex save? Resistance and Protection form the Elements can come nowhere near stopping that much damage. The Resist and Protection from the elements often don't seem to help against npc casters (recently doing tomb of the forbidden a trash mob caster party wiped the group i was in with cold spells, with hit points and resist and protection we could take anywhere from 300 to 450 points of damage and this Eternal wizard put most of us down to minus 100 to 200 hit points. This is often the case with traps too, a friends character was recently killed for example when a trap went off, and she was not even with in the room she was on the other side of an archway meters away from where i and the trap was.
    another recent even had us attacking a skeleton wizard through a doorway, now despite the fact that walls always stop our magic missiles, the wizard seems to have no problem shooting through the wall and killing one of the party who was away from the doorway struggling to get a healer npc to actually heal her/him. Fighting mages has become more whoever shoots first wins on most fights, since the defences in the game are so underwhleming.

    Healer packs? Pretty useless as well, very rarely has anyone i know, ever been put down to between 0 and -10, and those that are are usually killed off the second some mob turns around, or fires off an area affect spell, or multi target spell

    Rogue stealth, while very handy when it is working, seems to evaporate as soon as anyone in the party gets aggro, making it rather useless for finding traps while others fight *this is relatively minor i know, just more of a pet peeve,

    All that being said there are some great things. Customer Support is amazing (even for those like me who have that VIP points won't auto deposit every month bug (on DDO and LOTRO). Humour in the game is great. love the Attack on Stormreach quest line, especially the optionals in the Minotaur quest..... you guessed it kill more Minotaurs. Expanding into Forgotten realms is great to, tho i keep hoping for a starting area in there so we don't always have to start in stromreach.

    Intimidate and aggro. My friend recently complained that she was using intimidate but could not keep aggro because everything was moving out of range, or she was waiting for a cool down, she then vented that it didn't matter anyways because tanking was rather useless on a druid, she could never get to the mobs fast enough, and she could never get her physical resistance up. Finding medium no metal armor was also a problem. She tried switching to a caster Druid and using her wolf, but the wolf often can't be healed. Mummy rot in particular seems to never come off the wolf, and npcs seem to ignore it on the wolf and often themselves too. I've never really had a complaint about this since i'm usually a rogue, but i get to hear about it alot, and about how she would really like to Tank like she did in Everquest 2

    How does this list look? Anyone else have opnions?
    Last edited by Garfvader; 07-07-2013 at 10:59 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
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    you've been playing a few years and still use hire. I quit using those along time ago. self healing man! Also build for evasion to help with caster dmg or run lower difficulities. on norm and hard casters barely touch you. I don't know all the issues you just stated don't bother me one bit

  3. #3
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    you've been playing a few years and still use hire. I quit using those along time ago. self healing man! Also build for evasion to help with caster dmg or run lower difficulities. on norm and hard casters barely touch you. I don't know all the issues you just stated don't bother me one bit
    not all of us can be as uber as you. your input on OPs problem with hires actually wasted space.

  4. #4
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
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    hmmm. I guess your response was much better. you gave all kinds of good advice. Learning to build for self efficiency and not rely on a computer generated nanny bot will certainly help the hire issue. As far as casters are too big and strong and hurting him I don't want devs to get wrong idea and nerf elite quests. If anything they are a joke now. Need boost to be honest. there are 2 other settings in this game that everyone seems to have forgotten about.

  5. #5
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    actaully i have built for evasion, but it does little to stop others from dying leaving me to run around evading while trying to get the stones to take to a shrine. I usually end up dead at this point casue of one failed roll

  6. #6
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
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    ya understandalble. I myself am no stranger to dying but I relish the challenge. Some of the funnest quests I have had have been crazy all hell breaking loose regrouping and getting the quest completed by the hair of our chins. the zerg complete quest in 4 minutes which is pretty much everything these days are pretty forgetful to be honest.

  7. #7
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Best advice I can give you is try out Neverwinter.

  8. #8
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    Yep, all your beefs are felt by many others I've talked to and myself also. Ignore those who criticize you for using hirelings - many people use them to try to fill gaps in a party (as they are supposed to be used).

    The solution to problems in DDO is not to ignore them and find a work-around. We have been doing that for too long already. People are so used to some of the long-term bugs that they don't even notice them anymore. It's pathetic.

    We can only keep communicating the issues - keep filing bug reports - and keep the issues alive so that Turbine knows we aren't "satisfied" with the current state of the game. Good luck!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfvader View Post
    Hirelings seem to stop working more than 60 percent of the time. they don't heal, don't attack...... the don't even follow,
    My experience is that it's much higher than 60%, rather it's after virtually every encounter. If mobs keep coming the hire will keep fighting them, but once the last mob in an encounter dies the hire (any hire) will go into some kind of AI short-circuit looking for a nonexistant target. During this time they won't do anything, including follow you. Though they will periodically teleport to you and then stay rooted at the new spot until they teleport to you again.

    The fix for this is to set them to passive mode, then back to active. Wakes em right up and they're great again, until the next encounter ends.

    In order to make this playable -- I use hires all the time in mid-early levels (6-10, usually) -- I found the best solution is to hotkey the < and > keys (no shift, so technically the , and . keys) to "hireling passive" and "hireling active." They all use the same hotbar buttons for passive and active so it works for all hires equally well.

    To do this go to key mappings, scroll down pretty far looking for "Hireling Hotbar 1" and set the appropriate hotbar buttons to "," and ".". Once that's all done, all you have to do is quickly hit < > after every encounter. If you get in the habit it becomes much less annoying than it sounds, and using this technique hires are vastly superior to most puggers. heh.

  10. #10
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    . People are so used to some of the long-term bugs that they don't even notice them anymore. It's pathetic.

    . Good luck!
    Those are bugs? damn I guess ive become so use to some of those over the *years* that i now think of them as game features.

  11. #11
    Community Member TheGuyYouKnow's Avatar
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    hirelings
    never had that issue with any hireling and generally receive heals as needed unless they are under attack. usually i make it a goal to not be dependent on a hireling so if they die in a trap or get blown up is not an issue, i suggest you do the same

    casters
    they are top priority to kill and always have been, if you are having trouble with casters grab an a spell absorption item, other than that they usually have rather low saves, stun or trip and kill

    traps
    again never had an issue with traps hitting outside of where they should and an elite trap should heavily punish you if you get hit

    heal/repair kits
    yeah useless

    rogue stealth
    fantastic for solo and sometimes useful in parties for scouting/pulling enemies 1 by 1

    aggro management
    it is everyone responsibility to manage their own aggro, if you have a tank kite enemies towards them for intimidation or cc
    Elemo IronCast - Patorikku Yama - Happyfruit Wardancer - Toysoldier - Wookiee ~Ghallanda~

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    not all of us can be as uber as you. your input on OPs problem with hires actually wasted space.

    Everyone can actually be that uber. But even if they couldn't, there's other difficulties than elite.

    Of the problems mentioned in the OP, only the hireling is an actual "problem". Their AI is coded badly. If you must carry around a hire, my advice is to hotkey their active and inactive keys to , and . and toggle them constantly. It seems like a pain, but it's actually quite easy and quickly becomes second nature, and the hires will work 10000 percent better.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    Yep, all your beefs are felt by many others I've talked to and myself also. Ignore those who criticize you for using hirelings - many people use them to try to fill gaps in a party (as they are supposed to be used).

    The solution to problems in DDO is not to ignore them and find a work-around. We have been doing that for too long already. People are so used to some of the long-term bugs that they don't even notice them anymore. It's pathetic.

    We can only keep communicating the issues - keep filing bug reports - and keep the issues alive so that Turbine knows we aren't "satisfied" with the current state of the game. Good luck!
    Only the hireling issue brought up by the OP is a real issue. The rest is just complaints about game difficulty that the OP could easily rectify by running on a difficulty better suited to them. And no, I really can't feel bad for people with hireling problems. I don't think they should exist at all. So I have no sympathy that a person's easy button isn't quite easy enough.

  14. #14
    Community Member ushram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Everyone can actually be that uber. But even if they couldn't, there's other difficulties than elite.

    Of the problems mentioned in the OP, only the hireling is an actual "problem". Their AI is coded badly. If you must carry around a hire, my advice is to hotkey their active and inactive keys to , and . and toggle them constantly. It seems like a pain, but it's actually quite easy and quickly becomes second nature, and the hires will work 10000 percent better.
    ^this

    most of the people that say "hirelings are usless" etc, just don't know how to micro manage them to go around the bad coding of the AI. It does become 2nd nature once you get used to it.
    Ainur Wer'lak Thelanis

  15. #15
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ushram View Post
    ^this

    most of the people that say "hirelings are usless" etc, just don't know how to micro manage them to go around the bad coding of the AI. It does become 2nd nature once you get used to it.
    But it’s true that the hire’s IA is dumber now. 2 years ago they were not as useless. Something has changed in the hire’s IA.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    But it’s true that the hire’s IA is dumber now. 2 years ago they were not as useless. Something has changed in the hire’s IA.
    Agreed. The seeming infinite loop they fall into after the last mob in an encounter is killed is a "new" bug, as in it surfaced after the last hireling AI overhaul. I want to say last fall, maybe? Not sure; sometime last year I think.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfvader View Post
    Here's a few things I've noticed that are really getting annoying, even more so for my friend who just logged out in a rage....

    Hirelings are buggier than ever. as an example Miranda lvl 12 clr seemed fixated on one spot and even when called she would immediately run back to that spot and do nothing else.
    Hirelings seem to stop working more than 60 percent of the time. they don't heal, don't attack...... the don't even follow,
    Try to set them to passive and then defensive again to re-activate.

    Hireling buttons often stop working, these are the 4 back end buttons for skills ie firewall, summon monster etc etc. they just seem to stop working, you can't click on them to even force heals,
    Healer hirelings are still more interested in fighting (when they are actually working) than healing, doesn't matter what mode the are set on, aggressive, defend or passive) and then when they do heal they get stopped because they get hit,
    They do not have quicken feat. So by getting hit their spell is gone.
    They are usually used by parking near the entrance piking. Only when a heal or a resurrection is needed they get called.

    while they're standing in a group fighting when they shouldn't be.
    Healer hireling should heal only,
    Some of them are battle clerics and great pikers. Good thing they do not complain like some PCs.

    [...]
    Pathing for hirelings is still bad. they run through areas where floors have fallen out ie inside Chambers of Raiyum quest, or won't pass through doors or removed barriers, get stuck on steps. even in open spaces like in Diplomatic impunity they run circles around the rest shrine seeming to be unable to find that perfect spot.
    Have them to stop following you when you suspect a trap or a collapsing floor ahead.

    Hireling don't seem to like resting period, in addition to above they never seem to want to actually sit at a rest shrine more than half the time.
    They might have encounter obstacles in the terrain to get to the rest shrine.
    May be /bug report with your "/loc" and Hireling name?

    Magic...... oh where to start.....
    Get your own caster party member to either quickly kill them with finger of death, destruction or some of the (or Undead to death for undead) death spells or some kind of crowd control. Problem wasn't no energy immunity, problem for you sounded like you have no crowd control.

    another recent even had us attacking a skeleton wizard through a doorway, now despite the fact that walls always stop our magic missiles,[...]
    Magic Missiles, Force Missiles and Chain missiles can unerringly hit their targets. They are like heat seeking missiles and cannot miss. My wizards have used this same technique when fighting Lolth. Hide behind some rocks/walls/what have you and cast magic missiles/force missiles/chain missiles.

    Rogue stealth, while very handy when it is working, seems to evaporate as soon as anyone in the party gets aggro, making it rather useless for finding traps while others fight *this is relatively minor i know, just more of a pet peeve,
    I think the developer No Dice is implementing a better Stealth system. You might want to read the Lamannia threads or logon to Lamannia to try it out.

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfvader View Post
    [...]
    another recent even had us attacking a skeleton wizard through a doorway, now despite the fact that walls always stop our magic missiles, the wizard seems to have no problem shooting through the wall and killing one of the party who was away from the doorway struggling to get a healer npc to actually heal her/him. Fighting mages has become more whoever shoots first wins on most fights, since the defences in the game are so underwhleming.

    [...]
    How does this list look? Anyone else have opnions?
    I also would like to mention the defense against Magic Missiles is the Shield Spell, or NightShield spell or those spells on a wand. Hope you can UMD it.

    The defense against any spell is a spell absorption item like the upgraded Pale Lavender Ioun Stone, Jeweled Cloak, or the Cloak of the World Shapper or the upgraded Epic Mirror Cloak.

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

  19. #19
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    hmmm. I guess your response was much better. you gave all kinds of good advice. Learning to build for self efficiency and not rely on a computer generated nanny bot will certainly help the hire issue.
    Yeah, and that self-resurrecting ability really rocks too! No need for nanny-bots.

    And there are no quests you need to run where you have to keep yourself healed, AND an NPC that zergs erratically, almost guaranteeing that they will die. None whatsoever.

  20. #20
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Ween yourself off of the hirelings.

    You've been playing this game a few years and still use them?

    If you need help building self-sufficient toons ask.

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