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  1. #1
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    Default State of Melee Focused Clerics?

    I'm just popping into the forums for the first time in a while. I haven't played DDO or been on the forums in about 3 months. I got really turned off when they announced the new enhancement system as Clerics are really the only class I enjoy playing, usually melee clerics and they looked like the were getting a significant nerf. Has anything changed for melee clerics? I looked around the forums a little bit and it looks like there's still no melee path on the new enhancement system for clerics. Have melee clerics gotten anything new from the devs in the past 3-4 months or are they still screwed? My main that I've played for literally 2 years is a STR based horc 17 cleric/ 2 fighter / 1 wizard I'm just wondering how badly he's going to be hit and how dramatically I'll have to change his build.
    Last edited by axel15810; 07-07-2013 at 01:08 PM.

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  2. #2
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    if you looked at the first ( alpha ) enhancements, then nothing has changed when it comes to melee clerics.
    They just activated a Cleric Spellcaster tree that wasn't active initally.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    if you looked at the first ( alpha ) enhancements, then nothing has changed when it comes to melee clerics.
    They just activated a Cleric Spellcaster tree that wasn't active initally.
    Yeah I did notice that. I'm disapointed they didn't replace the Protector tree with a Warpriest tree.

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  4. #4

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    all my clerics are "Battle" builds of one form or another...

    I am hugely disappointed in the trees I'm seeing so far.

    I do see some nice 13/5/2 builds working though... but if you want to play a deep cleric.. You are gonna be a healbot it looks like.
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  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I doubt the Dalai Lama will approve, but: DEATH - TO - PACIFISM! Seriously, Radiant Servants are already implicitly lowering their DPS (melee or caster) by spending feats & enhs on healing; why explicitly penalize them further? Outside of Savants, I haven't noticed any other PrE abilities which have that sort of penalty.

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  6. #6
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    There's no intended nerf of melee clerics. We realize there are some issues to address to ensure that comes to pass.

    We're working on the plan. More to come.

  7. #7
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    There's no intended nerf of melee clerics. We realize there are some issues to address to ensure that comes to pass.

    We're working on the plan. More to come.
    It's the unintended nerfs that hurt the most.

  8. #8
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Defensive Strikes as it stands right now makes the battle cleric look like great fun. The actual Protection Tree will probably be revamped shortly to make the battle healer just as fun after the update as they are now.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    all my clerics are "Battle" builds of one form or another...

    I am hugely disappointed in the trees I'm seeing so far.

    I do see some nice 13/5/2 builds working though... but if you want to play a deep cleric.. You are gonna be a healbot it looks like.
    So, could someone please explain to me how clerics are being "nerfed" exactly?

    They're not getting any melee enhancements, i get that, but they're also not LOSING anything, since they never had those melee enhancements to begin with. The only two things I can see are that the lose divine might, and that pacifism core ability is terribad. But other than that, i really don't see how a melee cleric will be any different than they are on live?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    It's the unintended nerfs that hurt the most.
    Another person who hasn't played with the new system, I see, and yet feels as though they are qualified to speak. Nice.

    Some points.

    1.) Melee divines are gimp builds in the hands of experienced players. They give up DPS for an overabundance of healing ability that isn't needed. This game isn't hard. Sacrificing a large chunk of that healing ability to increase DPS is always a better option for people that can make it work.

    2.) Very little of a melee divine's power comes from current divine enhancements. The vast majority comes from splashes/feats/racial enhancements/ and EDs.

    3.) Keeping point two in mind, the current version of the enhancement pass actually BUFFS melee divines. The ability to go deeper into melee trees at a cheaper cost will INCREASE melee DPS. This isn't theoretical. This is built and thoroughly tested. Melee divines will see an increase in DPS when built properly.

    4.) For people who wish to see a melee pre, what would it look like? Would it have equal DPS as other toons, while still keeping the unequaled healing ability? If so, that would obviously be a horrible balancing decision. What else would this pre do? Give you subpar dps while having unequaled healing ability? Melee divines already have this. So I'm not sure what exactly the problem is.

  11. #11
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    It's the unintended nerfs that hurt the most.
    We always hurt the ones we love the most...

  12. #12
    Community Member Danemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    4.) For people who wish to see a melee pre, what would it look like? Would it have equal DPS as other toons, while still keeping the unequaled healing ability? If so, that would obviously be a horrible balancing decision. What else would this pre do? Give you subpar dps while having unequaled healing ability? Melee divines already have this. So I'm not sure what exactly the problem is.
    I imagine it would (should?) be based on the Warpriest from PnP. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.a...mp/mp20010413d

    1) it's first Core Enhancement could grant proficiencies in all simple and martial weapons;
    2) It could gain the "Inflame" ability that functions similar to an Inspire Courage;
    3) Gain "Haste" and "Heal, Mass" as SLAs higher in the tree, not unlike the class outlined there.
    4) Enhancements to bolster attack/damage with martial weapons
    5) An SLA to enchant their own weapon with Holy damage
    6) HP Enhancements

    etc...

    I think you get the idea. You would be trading up spell power and other enhancements from the casting trees to gain melee ability.

    Honestly, I think Protector for both Cleric and FvS should be replaced with Warpriest... >.>

    In before "OMG THATS OP!" and other similar posts that always follow class ideas that have no actual numbers.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archer52689 View Post
    So, could someone please explain to me how clerics are being "nerfed" exactly?

    They're not getting any melee enhancements, i get that, but they're also not LOSING anything, since they never had those melee enhancements to begin with. The only two things I can see are that the lose divine might, and that pacifism core ability is terribad. But other than that, i really don't see how a melee cleric will be any different than they are on live?
    This.

    There are no melee enhancement prestige class for clerics now, so battle clerics are basically just add effective (or ineffective, depending on you pov) as before.

    I would argue that they are significantly better with protection tree and perhaps some of the new racial enhancements.

    A good divine avenger as promised would be nice. :-)
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  14. #14
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Another person who hasn't played with the new system, I see, and yet feels as though they are qualified to speak. Nice.
    I wasn't speaking specifically to unintended nerfs of battle clerics. Just unintended nerfs in general. I don't give two figs about battle clerics.

    And who are you to say what I have or haven't done? Are you watching every move I make? I didn't realize someone had to be "qualified" to post. You certainly aren't, but yet here you are being a prat.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    I imagine it would (should?) be based on the Warpriest from PnP. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.a...mp/mp20010413d

    1) it's first Core Enhancement could grant proficiencies in all simple and martial weapons;
    2) It could gain the "Inflame" ability that functions similar to an Inspire Courage;
    3) Gain "Haste" and "Heal, Mass" as SLAs higher in the tree, not unlike the class outlined there.
    4) Enhancements to bolster attack/damage with martial weapons
    5) An SLA to enchant their own weapon with Holy damage
    6) HP Enhancements

    etc...

    I think you get the idea. You would be trading up spell power and other enhancements from the casting trees to gain melee ability.

    Honestly, I think Protector for both Cleric and FvS should be replaced with Warpriest... >.>

    In before "OMG THATS OP!" and other similar posts that always follow class ideas that have no actual numbers.
    This isn't at all OP, but it's also basically possible through light multiclassing. While I understand why people want the pre, I don't understand why people are so angry that it doesn't exist.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    I wasn't speaking specifically to unintended nerfs of battle clerics. Just unintended nerfs in general. I don't give two figs about battle clerics.

    And who are you to say what I have or haven't done? Are you watching every move I make? I didn't realize someone had to be "qualified" to post. You certainly aren't, but yet here you are being a prat.
    Well that's simple, for someone to make a false statement such as "melee divines are nerfed in the enhancement pass", either A, they didn't try to build one, or B, Have no idea how to actually build a toon. Seeing as you have a need to proclaim to everyone how elitist you are, I guess B really is the more likely option here.

  17. #17
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    I'm just popping into the forums for the first time in a while. I haven't played DDO or been on the forums in about 3 months. I got really turned off when they announced the new enhancement system as Clerics are really the only class I enjoy playing, usually melee clerics and they looked like the were getting a significant nerf. Has anything changed for melee clerics? I looked around the forums a little bit and it looks like there's still no melee path on the new enhancement system for clerics. Have melee clerics gotten anything new from the devs in the past 3-4 months or are they still screwed? My main that I've played for literally 2 years is a STR based horc 17 cleric/ 2 fighter / 1 wizard I'm just wondering how badly he's going to be hit and how dramatically I'll have to change his build.
    How are you getting nerfed? Are there any cleric melee enhancements NOW? Other than divine might, what exactly do melee clerics get now?

    Just the fact the light splashes into melee classes opens up a ton of stuff is a huge buff...

    I'm glad the devs are looking into a melee cleric path, but I'm getting real tired of people claiming the new enhancement pass is "totally ruins" their build.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Emizand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    It's the unintended nerfs that hurt the most.
    The first nerf is the deepest

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneArcher52689 View Post
    So, could someone please explain to me how clerics are being "nerfed" exactly?

    They're not getting any melee enhancements, i get that, but they're also not LOSING anything, since they never had those melee enhancements to begin with. The only two things I can see are that the lose divine might, and that pacifism core ability is terribad. But other than that, i really don't see how a melee cleric will be any different than they are on live?
    I dont necessarily think they are getting "nerfed". I said I was disappointed in what I saw.

    Divine Might is missing. thats bad.. I did use it on some builds...

    The problem I have is that my battle clerics dont currently follow any of my 3.5 characters. I was hoping we would see a proper battle PrE and I'm still holding out for Domains someday.

    I expected some forward progress in these areas with a complete enhancement system revamp... Instead, we're getting a small step backwards....

    Its incredibly disappointing.
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  20. #20
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I'm still coming to grips with the new Enhancement system, but it seems to me like the biggest nerf to BCs are the changes to Spellpower & Radiant Servant. Right now a BC can get 80 Positive Spellpower (Life Magic IV) for 10 APs and Rad Serv II for another 18 APs (+Emp Heal); that's an awful lot for healing for 35% of your APs, leaving the rest free for melee, caster DPS, or other enhs. But IIUC, under the new system your Spellpower is entirely dependent on how many APs you spend on your caster tree(s); plus the best abilities require spending at least 30 APs in Rad Serv tree (40 if you want capstone). So it seems like you have to spend more APs to be a less capable healer than BCs are on live. When you add in the loss of Divine Might, the addition of Pacifism, and the lack of a Warpriest-type PrE, melee BCs look like they got hit with the nerf bat.

    That said, I can see some clever possibilities with a pally splash for Divine Grace, Divine Might, Smites, etc.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 07-10-2013 at 11:12 AM.

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