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  1. #1
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    Jun 2013
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    Default Sorcerer with 2 levels of Rogue, or Paladin for soloing?

    Hello, fellow DDO:ers!

    I have been only playing for a couple of weeks, but as I like researching and tweaking, I decided to Multiclass already from my first toon. I have been playing MMO:s for a decade, and have played Baldur's Gates and Torment, so I do have a general idea of the classes, their strengths and weaknesses. However, DDO is using a newer ruleset, and it's also an adaptation, so I am asking for help in determining what would work the best for me.

    First option I have (and the one that interests me more) is a Sorcerer 18/Paladin 2. The only real way for me to include the Paladin levels was to take them at 19-20, so the actual benefits kick in very late. It will play as a pure sorcerer to that point though, which is a bonus, as I would be getting my spells as early as possible. On the other hand, the whole idea of the build only comes to existence very late...

    Here's the build:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Sor18Pal2 
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
    (2 Paladin \ 18 Sorcerer) 
    Hit Points: 214
    Spell Points: 1771 
    BAB: 11\11\16\21
    Fortitude: 20
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 28
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             12                    12
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         14                    15
    Intelligence         14                    14
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             18                    26
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               1                    10
    Bluff                 4                     8
    Concentration         6                    21
    Diplomacy             4                     8
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                6                    17
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                 -1                    -1
    Intimidate            4                    14
    Jump                  3                     7
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently        -1                    -1
    Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     2
    Search                2                     2
    Spot                 -1                    10
    Swim                  1                     1
    Tumble               n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      6                    19
    
    Level 1 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Spell
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
    
    
    Level 2 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 3 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame I
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation II
    
    
    Level 4 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation II
    
    
    Level 5 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
    
    
    Level 6 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Fire Savant I
    
    
    Level 7 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
    
    
    Level 8 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting III
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame II
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation IV
    
    
    Level 9 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame III
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation V
    
    
    Level 10 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III
    
    
    Level 11 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting IV
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    
    
    Level 12 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Fire Savant II
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame IV
    
    
    Level 13 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation VII
    
    
    Level 14 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting V
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    
    
    Level 15 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
    
    
    Level 16 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame V
    
    
    Level 17 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
    
    
    Level 18 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Fire Savant III
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation V
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid I
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    The second option is a Sorcerer 18/Rogue 2. It would start with a Rogue level, then go till 7 as a Sorcerer, take the second Rogue level at 8, and then finishing as a Sorcerer. The reason for the levels is, that I opened Veteran with points, so I can start from level 7, so the level plan would allow me to start with Fireball and allow me to start nuking from the beginning. It would also let me feel a bit more comfortable as I could disable traps... Or are the skills too low for that for hard quests on level? I can easily get the "newbie" buffing gear from Korthos, it only takes half an hour anyway, or get gear from AH with +5 - +10 for Search and Disable...

    Here's the build:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Sorc18Rog2 
    Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Female
    (2 Rogue \ 18 Sorcerer) 
    Hit Points: 196
    Spell Points: 1771 
    BAB: 10\10\15\20
    Fortitude: 8
    Reflex: 9
    Will: 19
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             12                    12
    Dexterity            10                    10
    Constitution         14                    15
    Intelligence         12                    12
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             18                    26
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               4                     4
    Bluff                 4                     8
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy             4                     8
    Disable Device        5                    17
    Haggle                8                    12
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  4                     4
    Intimidate            4                    14
    Jump                  5                     5
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently         3                     3
    Open Lock             4                     4
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                5                    18
    Spot                  3                     4
    Swim                  1                     1
    Tumble                1                     1
    Use Magic Device      8                    30
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
    
    
    Level 3 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 4 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation II
    
    
    Level 5 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
    
    
    Level 6 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
    
    
    Level 7 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Fire Savant I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    
    
    Level 9 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame II
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation IV
    
    
    Level 10 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting III
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    
    
    Level 11 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame III
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation V
    
    
    Level 12 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III
    
    
    Level 13 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting IV
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation VI
    
    
    Level 14 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Fire Savant II
    
    
    Level 15 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation VII
    
    
    Level 16 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting V
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame IV
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation V
    
    
    Level 17 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid I
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame V
    
    
    Level 18 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
    
    
    Level 19 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 20 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Fire Savant III
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame VI
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

    Now my problem is, that I don't have any previous knowledge of the quests (after level 7 F2P and Tangleroot Gorge), so I will go in blindly. I have played most of the quests from starter island till Tangleroot on my Tempest Trapmonkey, and even she has had problems with traps now and then on normal. Also not knowing what to expect has been a bit worrisome at times. I have however learned the basics (and hopefully much more) by reviewing the quests from Wiki after finishing them once "blindly". I also try to do them on Hard once after that (or more if there's an amazing reward for my class, like Muckbanes for my Trapmonkey).


    What I would like, is advice and opinions on which one of the Sorcerers would be easier for soloing. I myself am suspecting the Rogue splash, but am a bit wary of the spells coming so late...

    Also if there's an obvious mistake in how I built either one, I would really appreciate input on both of them.

    The spell selections I have done from researching the forums, and going with the ones that have the best feel... I have tried to keep the spell lists well rounded, but then again I have no idea which ones are required in DDO to be successful in soloing a Sorcerer up to 20 doing hard content...


    In any case, any help, info and hints are greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading. :-)

    Edit: I have access to 32-point builds, and have Veteran status to start from level 7. Ended up getting them with points, as grinding them on a F2P account didn't look viable at all solo, with my leveling speed.
    Last edited by Henshaw1; 07-07-2013 at 09:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    2,577

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Henshaw1 View Post
    Hello, fellow DDO:ers!

    I have been only playing for a couple of weeks, but as I like researching and tweaking, I decided to Multiclass already from my first toon. I have been playing MMO:s for a decade, and have played Baldur's Gates and Torment, so I do have a general idea of the classes, their strengths and weaknesses. However, DDO is using a newer ruleset, and it's also an adaptation, so I am asking for help in determining what would work the best for me.

    First option I have (and the one that interests me more) is a Sorcerer 18/Paladin 2. The only real way for me to include the Paladin levels was to take them at 19-20, so the actual benefits kick in very late. It will play as a pure sorcerer to that point though, which is a bonus, as I would be getting my spells as early as possible. On the other hand, the whole idea of the build only comes to existence very late...

    Here's the build:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Sor18Pal2 
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
    (2 Paladin \ 18 Sorcerer) 
    Hit Points: 214
    Spell Points: 1771 
    BAB: 11\11\16\21
    Fortitude: 20
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 28
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             12                    12
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         14                    15
    Intelligence         14                    14
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             18                    26
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               1                    10
    Bluff                 4                     8
    Concentration         6                    21
    Diplomacy             4                     8
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                6                    17
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                 -1                    -1
    Intimidate            4                    14
    Jump                  3                     7
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently        -1                    -1
    Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     2
    Search                2                     2
    Spot                 -1                    10
    Swim                  1                     1
    Tumble               n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      6                    19
    
    Level 1 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Spell
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
    
    
    Level 2 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 3 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame I
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation II
    
    
    Level 4 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation II
    
    
    Level 5 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
    
    
    Level 6 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Fire Savant I
    
    
    Level 7 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
    
    
    Level 8 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting III
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame II
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation IV
    
    
    Level 9 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame III
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation V
    
    
    Level 10 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III
    
    
    Level 11 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting IV
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    
    
    Level 12 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Fire Savant II
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame IV
    
    
    Level 13 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation VII
    
    
    Level 14 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting V
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    
    
    Level 15 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
    
    
    Level 16 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame V
    
    
    Level 17 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
    
    
    Level 18 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Fire Savant III
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation V
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid I
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    The second option is a Sorcerer 18/Rogue 2. It would start with a Rogue level, then go till 7 as a Sorcerer, take the second Rogue level at 8, and then finishing as a Sorcerer. The reason for the levels is, that I opened Veteran with points, so I can start from level 7, so the level plan would allow me to start with Fireball and allow me to start nuking from the beginning. It would also let me feel a bit more comfortable as I could disable traps... Or are the skills too low for that for hard quests on level? I can easily get the "newbie" buffing gear from Korthos, it only takes half an hour anyway, or get gear from AH with +5 - +10 for Search and Disable...

    Here's the build:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Sorc18Rog2 
    Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Female
    (2 Rogue \ 18 Sorcerer) 
    Hit Points: 196
    Spell Points: 1771 
    BAB: 10\10\15\20
    Fortitude: 8
    Reflex: 9
    Will: 19
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             12                    12
    Dexterity            10                    10
    Constitution         14                    15
    Intelligence         12                    12
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             18                    26
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               4                     4
    Bluff                 4                     8
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy             4                     8
    Disable Device        5                    17
    Haggle                8                    12
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  4                     4
    Intimidate            4                    14
    Jump                  5                     5
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently         3                     3
    Open Lock             4                     4
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                5                    18
    Spot                  3                     4
    Swim                  1                     1
    Tumble                1                     1
    Use Magic Device      8                    30
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
    
    
    Level 3 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 4 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation II
    
    
    Level 5 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
    
    
    Level 6 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
    
    
    Level 7 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Fire Savant I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    
    
    Level 9 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame II
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation IV
    
    
    Level 10 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting III
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    
    
    Level 11 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame III
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation V
    
    
    Level 12 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III
    
    
    Level 13 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting IV
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation VI
    
    
    Level 14 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Fire Savant II
    
    
    Level 15 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation VII
    
    
    Level 16 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting V
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame IV
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation V
    
    
    Level 17 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid I
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame V
    
    
    Level 18 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
    
    
    Level 19 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 20 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Fire Savant III
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame VI
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

    Now my problem is, that I don't have any previous knowledge of the quests (after level 7 F2P and Tangleroot Gorge), so I will go in blindly. I have played most of the quests from starter island till Tangleroot on my Tempest Trapmonkey, and even she has had problems with traps now and then on normal. Also not knowing what to expect has been a bit worrisome at times. I have however learned the basics (and hopefully much more) by reviewing the quests from Wiki after finishing them once "blindly". I also try to do them on Hard once after that (or more if there's an amazing reward for my class, like Muckbanes for my Trapmonkey).


    What I would like, is advice and opinions on which one of the Sorcerers would be easier for soloing. I myself am suspecting the Rogue splash, but am a bit wary of the spells coming so late...

    Also if there's an obvious mistake in how I built either one, I would really appreciate input on both of them.

    The spell selections I have done from researching the forums, and going with the ones that have the best feel... I have tried to keep the spell lists well rounded, but then again I have no idea which ones are required in DDO to be successful in soloing a Sorcerer up to 20 doing hard content...


    In any case, any help, info and hints are greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading. :-)

    Edit: I have access to 32-point builds, and have Veteran status to start from level 7. Ended up getting them with points, as grinding them on a F2P account didn't look viable at all solo, with my leveling speed.
    Both builds are do-able. In each case I would lower the str to 8 and boost dex on the paladin build or boost dex and intel on the rogue build. For the rogue build, I would think you need a bit more intel and dex to have more success on your trapping skills. To make up for the reduction in str, get yourself the high + Str items you can wear. The extra dexterity will also bost your reflex saves (which are important in this game).

    As a sorc, you can get the savant prestige enhacements to boost your caster levels in specifc elements which will offset the fewer sorc levels you have. I would try to get to lvl 6 sorc as quick as possible, but your golden after that. No need to wait to 19-20 for the paladin levels.

    One interesting build that alot of players have found successful. is 16 sorc / 2 Pal / 2 Rogue. This gives you the trap skills you are looking for, really high saves and best of all, evasion. Most people play this build as a warfogred for optimum self healing. I personally don't like warforged, but it really is the best class for a sorc.

    You don't really need to be pure to be a successfull sorcerer. The sorcs biggest strength is their nuking ability and you don't have to have high DC's to do that, so IMO 16 lvls of sorc is still plenty.

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Either Split will work.

    If you plan to play a lot in Epics, I'd recommend the 2 pally option, the Charisma boost to saves is a big boost to survivability in the high damage world of Epic Elites.

    Its a very nice fit because the boost to saves are powered by your Charisma, which is your main casting stat for the sorc.

    While rogue can work, its a more difficult fit because you need to invest in dex and/or int to get the most out of your rogue levels. Evasion needs good saves to work well. Rogue tends to work better with a Wizard where at least some of the rogue skills drive off of INT and insightful reflexes can make the evasion go further.

    If you are planning to level to 20 then flip quickly, the extra xp from getting traps while you level could make rogue a good option.
    Last edited by Grubbby; 07-08-2013 at 09:39 AM.
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  4. #4

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    What is your goal with the build?

    People present ideas all the time.. then ya get folks saying "that'll work"... but nowhere in this post does it say what the op Expects from the build?

    Do you plan on drinking tons of Mana potions?

    Do you plan on running only Casual and Normal content?

    Cause thats the only way I see these builds being "do-able"

    Give me an idea of what you want to do with the build and I can then give advice.
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    These two builds shine in very different areas. A 2 Rogue splash is going to make you amazingly hard to kill, right up until your saving throws do not keep up with the content. This isn't as much of a problem if your ambition is to just make it up to 20/cap so that you can TR/eTR at that point, as you can manage the Epic Normal Saving Throws pretty easily, even on a lightly geared first life character. But probably around level 18 you will find that your saves are not really going to cut it any longer in Elite content, and without the Reflex save to back it up that Evasion will not do anything for you at all. You should also consider that as soon as the upcoming Enhancement Pass goes live there will be two new skills that you need to keep up, Spellcraft for General Spell Power and Repair for Repair Spell Power, which will make it much harder to keep up with trap skills.

    The 2 Paladin option gives you much, much higher saving throws. And taking half damage on a passed save rather than full damage on a failed Evasion save is going to be much more important when running high level Heroic Elites, or Epic Hard or Elites. This is especially true if you solo much, because one failed Will or Fortitude save can easily mean dieing.

    And then there is always the 16/2/2 option that was mentioned before. Losing two levels of Sorcerer is not a terribly large loss. Losing four levels really cuts into your spell options. However, this does make for the most defensive and survivable option available. Which build is right for you really depends on which area of the game you want your power to come at, the early game or the late game, what difficulty you generally find yourself playing at, and whether you largely PUG, short man with friends, or solo.

  6. #6
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    If you really want a rog-splashed arcane, wiz is a far better choice than sorc. See the Pale Trapper for one example.

    Your first build is okay, though I would rearrange feats & stats; and take the pally splash for Divine Grace + Toughness much sooner - like sorc 1-2, pal 1-2, sorc 3-18.

  7. #7
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    Thank you all for the answers so far, and especially for the comparisons between the two options.

    For the questions, I am planning on soloing as much as possible, as I really want to know the class and mechanics well before even trying to do anything in a group. I also want to be able to tackle higher difficulties to farm Favor more efficiently, although Hard would probably suffice on level, or close. Hard doubles the Favor compared to Normal, so Elite isn't giving enough on level for the effort.

    I haven't played long yet, so I don't have the funds to support potion use, or even (most) +4 gear yet. I have been able to get some very important items, like permanent Feather Fall, Waterbreathing and an Expeditious Retreat clickie (I would love to transfer my Ranger's +2 Leather of Invulnerability for my Sorcerer, but not with the 10% spell failure...), some rogue skill-buffing items, and some wands for buffing and healing.

    Mnemonic Potions are really out of the question at the moment, as with their prices, I can get 1-2 pieces of very nice gear with the money I get from selling just one of them.
    Wands on the other hand are not so bad, as 50 charges go a long way, and I have planned using healing wands anyway when I get surprised (and I will/have been on my first tries) by quest mechanics.

    My aim at the moment really is only to get to 20 and experience the content first. After that I will decide if I want to start doing Epic stuff, or just TR into something else. This I have to do solo, as on top of wanting to perform as well as possible, I also need to go afk all of a sudden, and that doesn't really go well with groups at all.


    As for the suggestions, the mentioned 16 Sorcerer / 2 Paladin / 2 Rogue sounds very intriguing, as that would give the best sides of both builds, but will it be lacking on the casting side? If it would be the most survivable option without losing too much DPS (I still want to finish fights fastish), I would go that way in that case. What would be the class progression in that case? I was thinking 1 Rogue, 2-7 Sorcerer, but what then? 2 Paladin levels, or 1 Rogue then the 2 Paladin levels?

    I am kindof set on the Sorcerer, and race as Human, but otherwise I am flexible with the build. :-)


    Thank you again everybody, great advice. :-)

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I wouldn't advocate a heavily-MCed build, particularly if you're new to casters; wiz 18 / rog 2 or sorc 18 / pal 2 is as "exotic" as I would get.

    I'd prefer to do this as a Bladeforged nowadays, but here's an example of human sorc 18 / pal 2:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 21 Lawful Good Human Female
    (2 Paladin \ 18 Sorcerer \ 1 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 238
    Spell Points: 1899 
    BAB: 11\11\16\21
    Fortitude: 21
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 19
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 21)
    Strength             14                    14
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         16                    16
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             18                    27
    
    Level 1 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Maximize Spell
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality (or Extend Spell)
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    
    
    Level 5 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 6 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
    
    
    Level 7 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 8 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant I
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid I
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid II
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    
    
    Level 9 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    
    
    Level 10 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 11 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 12 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
    
    
    Level 13 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 14 (Sorcerer)
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant II
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting III
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting IV
    Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid III
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid IV
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation V
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation V
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation V
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III
    
    
    Level 15 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 16 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    
    
    Level 17 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 18 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
    
    
    Level 19 (Sorcerer)
    
    
    Level 20 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant III
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting V
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting VI
    Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting III
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid V
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid VI
    Enhancement: Deadly Ice I
    Enhancement: Deadly Ice II
    Enhancement: Deadly Ice III
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame I
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame II
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VII
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation VII
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation VII
    
    
    Level 21 (Sorcerer)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic Spell Focus: Evocation
    I like Earth Savant for twink-free first-lifers (with cold as a secondary element) because their spells are a bit more SP-efficient than others, Melfs is a very nice DoT with no save, and acid resistance is less common than cold or fire. Main drawback is their burst DPS is now as good as, say, an Air Savant; but they're also a little less DC-dependent than Air Savs. Tertiary element should be either fire (e.g., Firewall, Scorching Ray) or force (Missiles, Disintegrate), IMHO.

    OTOH, if you're building for Shiradi, that's another matter entirely; have a look at the Mechadi Champion. Although with the Enhancement overhaul on the horizon, I'm kinda presuming any build I make these days is gonna need an LR to re-align anyway.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 07-09-2013 at 10:23 AM. Reason: edited to swap lvl 9 & 12 feats

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    Thank you for the build. It looks very nice on a quick glance, but I will look into it more carefully tomorrow when I have more time. I wasn't really considering Earth and Cold, but if it would work smoother with low gear, then I will definitely go that way instead. I have also had a guideline of only having spells that do atleast half damage on a save, so I wouldn't get completely negated, so both elements look very good in that sense too. I would have had to switch from fire later anyway, from what I have read from the forums, so it's all good.


    I'll get back to the topic tomorrow. Thank you again. :-)

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    Default At least take a peek at Air Savant...

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I like Earth Savant for twink-free first-lifers (with cold as a secondary element) because their spells are a bit more SP-efficient than others, Melfs is a very nice DoT with no save, and acid resistance is less common than cold or fire. Main drawback is their burst DPS is now as good as, say, an Air Savant; but they're also a little less DC-dependent than Air Savs. Tertiary element should be either fire (e.g., Firewall, Scorching Ray) or force (Missiles, Disintegrate), IMHO.
    Don't disagree with your advice here, but I'd put in a vote that air savant is worthy of consideration for an untwinked toon. Earth is a bit more efficient, but requires more patience (Admittedly I have very little patience).

    A heightened Inherent Electric Loop (SLA) is very solid crowd control while leveling. And an air sorc can be extremely efficient if they want to by alternating inherent shocking grasp and inherent electric loop. For someone who is learning the ropes, having a very cheap crowd control effect that they can afford to spam can be a real life saver by buying time to figure out how to handle a situation. In Epic's you have to invest in your DC's to keep them relevant, but it doesn't take much to handle elites through the vale.

    18/2 Air Sorc also lends itself very well to running in Shirardi.

    There's nothing wrong with Earth savant, so if that is appealing to you, go that way, but I wouldn't rule air savant out without taking a look.
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    Ok, I have spent some time looking at the build Unbongwah posted, and it's very interesting indeed. I like the fact that I still can include the elements that I wanted to have in it, although it really is quite a lot different to what I came up with myself. :-)

    As for Air, the fact that Fire is ruled out really stops me from choosing it, but I did consider it carefully. Acid, Fire and Cold seem to be much more versatile. haven't played all of the quests through yet, so my knowledge is only second hand...

    A few questions:

    1. I noticed the build example didn't have the Human Adaptability Charisma at all, but still had Sorcerer Charisma I-III. Compared to them, I would save up to 6 points choosing Human Adaptability Charisma instead. Was that an oversight, or is there something I haven't noticed? :-)

    2. Secondly, the build has Human Improved Recovery, which looks very nice for groups and somewhat for Wands, but would I be better off with Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery, as that will be the main source of my healing? The higher Wand Masteries don't really give that much compared to their cost, so I would most likely leave them out anyway to get other more important Enhancements.

    3. Then is the Strength 14. I do have access to +3 stat gear, and I can easily transfer +4 Strength Ring from my Tempest Trapmonkey, as that toon's Strength is uneven anyway at the moment, so it doesn't benefit her as much. So the question is; would I be better off leaving Strength at 12, and heving some more points in Intelligence to be able to raise 3 skills, instead of only 2? I really want to have UMD, and that still leaves 3 other skills that I would like to have, but am not really sure if all of them are worth it: Balance, Spot (my trapmonkey detects stealthed, and it has been very useful to avoid surprices) and Concentration. I'm not that sure I could keep more than 3 skills up with even 3 points though.
    Stat tomes are/will be out of the question for quite a long time though, so I can't count on them at all.

    4. Then to the spells... As I understand, I need 3 elements to cover all situations, but need to concentrate on one at first. As Fire seems to be the strongest and has the most spells in the lower level ranges, but Earth concentrates on Acid, what should I aim for? 4 spells per level doesn't really leave that many damage options, after I have taken the important CC and buff spells that I cannot get from wands (CC from wands is supposedly worthless anyway?). I also need to have AOE:s, DOT:s and long range spells, in which Acid/Fire/Cold seem to be very good at. Also the fact that when I do get the Savants, some spells I would otherwise get as early as possible, are going to be SLA:s anyway... A bit confusing. :-)

    5. Lastly, and talking about spells: I do understand the importance of getting the second Paladin level as soon as possible, but that would also postpone my level 3 spells, most importantly either Acid Blast or Displacement. I would like to get a ranged AOE sooner than later, but I also want to get Displacement as early as possible. Most likely the blasting from range wins though, as if I get the enemies before they get in range, I won't need the extra defence (as amazing as it is) quite as much. I will be starting the toon from level 7, so it would open the opportunity to get 6 Sorcerer levels for level 3 spells, and Savant I, but would postpone the amazing saves for another level, and I would also have to "dive to the deep end" instead of having great defences to help me familiarise to the mechanics first...


    I seem to have a knack for making walls of text, but I feel it important to mention things that are on my mind, as I don't want to mess up and have to either start over, or end up doing resets for spells/Enhancements/Feats early on. :-)

    All input would be very much appreciated on any/all points.

  12. #12
    2015 DDO Players Council Dodoroq's Avatar
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    First of all, by any chance, are you playing on Cannith? If so, send me ingame mail to Tirain and we will see what can be done about your equip...

    To your questions:
    1) Check lvl20 enhancements, there is Human Adaptability: Charisma taken. Of course you may take it sooner - this is fully your choice.
    2) Au contraire. If you plan to solo, your most usual source of healing should be hireling, and there the Improved Recovery helps, unlike wand and scroll mastery. Other sources of healing than hirelings come into play where you want to group - there is an incentive to be able to heal yourself then. Sure it is good to carry a scroll/pot or two with you anyways, but unless you plan to work in groups, Imp. Recovery is better.
    3) As my opener - if you are on Cannith, we can solve it out. If you are not, I am sure someone else can do the same as I would there - living is difficult when you have no plat, but once you have toons in mid levels and several millions pp, getting a +3 or +6 item or whatever is insignificant. I can make (and whoever is there in high levels) 100k plat easily in 10 minutes if I need.
    Therefore, do not build on items you have now, but rather on ideal setup, as you will get to it eventually. And high strength is important - I bet you have heard it before, playing a wizard or sorcerer on lower levels is still more effective if you grab a sword and hack your way through enemies. As you plan to start at lvl7, this is where the chances of causing havoc with spells and with weapons may start to even out... but still, don't dump strength. The skills are not that important - may be after update, but they are not now.
    4) Completely your choice. Acid and Fire are almost the same until you get Firewall, which will be your main damage output for a long time. Just make a selection yourself.
    5) Paladin early is more survivability. If you are alive and fighting, you may take the option to cast two times rather than just once and then end dead. Paladin FTW as early as possible!
    Characters on Cannith: Daian of the Tree, would-be completionist (life 12); Tirain Hawksong (4th life Monkcher), Sorain Hawksong (2nd life Wizard), several mules.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henshaw1 View Post
    ...

    As for Air, the fact that Fire is ruled out really stops me from choosing it, but I did consider it carefully. Acid, Fire and Cold seem to be much more versatile. haven't played all of the quests through yet, so my knowledge is only second hand...
    Cool. Not quite sure what you mean by Fire is ruled out, since Air's opposing school is Acid. But There is absolutely nothing wrong with an Earth Savant so enjoy.
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  14. #14
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    Do you plan on running only Casual and Normal content?

    Cause thats the only way I see these builds being "do-able"
    Have you even played either of these builds? I have an 18 sorc/2 pally (drow) that I solo'd most heoric elite content with (Nothing Epic yet). I also have 16/2/2/4 Sorc/pally/rog/epic (drow) that I routinely solo epic hard content. I admit, Warforged is optimal for this build, but I don't think robots belong in DDO, so I try to avoid them.

    So yea....these builds are "Do-Able".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henshaw1 View Post
    As for the suggestions, the mentioned 16 Sorcerer / 2 Paladin / 2 Rogue sounds very intriguing, as that would give the best sides of both builds, but will it be lacking on the casting side? If it would be the most survivable option without losing too much DPS (I still want to finish fights fastish), I would go that way in that case. What would be the class progression in that case? I was thinking 1 Rogue, 2-7 Sorcerer, but what then? 2 Paladin levels, or 1 Rogue then the 2 Paladin levels?

    I am kindof set on the Sorcerer, and race as Human, but otherwise I am flexible with the build. :-)
    Splashing 4 levels out of a Sorcerer will indeed leave you lacking on the caster side. You will lack the advantages that your PrE gives you at level 18 (3rd SLA, maximum caster level increases, and some unique benefit for each one) and you will also not have any of the powerful level 8 or 9 spell(s). A 16sorc/2pal/2monk (Or Rogue, in this case. Monk offers a great deal more than Rogue, but it is a premium class) is really designed to provide more defense at a significant cost to offense.

    You may notice that I did not mention the two Caster Levels for all spells and two additional Caster Levels for spells of your element that are lost. This is because the loss here is fairly insignificant. You will still be able to hit the Maximum Caster Level for most of the spells that you have available to you through gear or Epic Destiny choices.

    As far as class progression goes, it is largely personal taste. You seem to realize that taking your first level in your most skill intensive class is very important for your skills, although this does make it so that you can not use your First Level or Human Feat for metamagic or caster-related feats. Beyond that, it is just weighing in when you gain access to the perks that the splashes give you, verses keeping up with your core class spells.

    Human is typically considered to be a very good racial choice for Sorcerers who are already very geared up. The +3 Charisma relative to a War Forged is very nice, and the additional feat is extremely nice, but the loss of being able to reconstruct yourself from nearly dead to full life is a very significant difference in how the character will play. With patience and willingness to struggle more you can certainly make Human work, but it will likely be a bit frustrating for quite awhile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henshaw1 View Post
    As for Air, the fact that Fire is ruled out really stops me from choosing it, but I did consider it carefully. Acid, Fire and Cold seem to be much more versatile. haven't played all of the quests through yet, so my knowledge is only second hand...
    Air and Earth are opposition elements, and Cold and Fire are opposition elements. Air casters would be able to cast Fire spells without any issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henshaw1 View Post
    2. Secondly, the build has Human Improved Recovery, which looks very nice for groups and somewhat for Wands, but would I be better off with Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery, as that will be the main source of my healing? The higher Wand Masteries don't really give that much compared to their cost, so I would most likely leave them out anyway to get other more important Enhancements.
    For a Human Sorcerer, stacking every possible healing bonus that you can get is rather important. You lack Reconstruction, so your only other viable options for healing large amounts of damage are Heal Scrolls, which run the risk of being interrupted when you need them the most, and Silver Flame Potions, which require running quite a few premium Silver Flame quests on Elite difficulty and are rather pricy and have a penalty of -10 to all stats on top of that. Heal Scrolls have a base healing of 110 points, and Silver Flame Potions have a base of either 100 or 200, depending on the variety. This means that you will need to stack Healing Amp to make them really have the potency that you need, with at least the first tier of Scroll Mastery also being needed for Heal Scrolls to have enough power to keep you going.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henshaw1 View Post
    3. Then is the Strength 14. I do have access to +3 stat gear, and I can easily transfer +4 Strength Ring from my Tempest Trapmonkey, as that toon's Strength is uneven anyway at the moment, so it doesn't benefit her as much. So the question is; would I be better off leaving Strength at 12, and heving some more points in Intelligence to be able to raise 3 skills, instead of only 2? I really want to have UMD, and that still leaves 3 other skills that I would like to have, but am not really sure if all of them are worth it: Balance, Spot (my trapmonkey detects stealthed, and it has been very useful to avoid surprices) and Concentration. I'm not that sure I could keep more than 3 skills up with even 3 points though.
    Stat tomes are/will be out of the question for quite a long time though, so I can't count on them at all.
    With your Wisdom, and the necessity to slot caster items over +Spot items, I really do not think that Spot will be of much use to you once you get past the low levels. UMD is vital. Concentration is vital for the Heroic levels, and Epic as well if you stick to Normal/Hard rather than Epic Elite where the damage is much too great to make your Concentration rolls. In about a month a new skill, Spellcraft, will be coming which will be vital as well. Balance and enough Jump to reach the cap of 40, after your self buffs such as +30 from Jump and +4 from Greater Heroism, are very nice to have.

    That said, you need to keep a base STR of 12-14, even on a caster. Getting tagged by a Symbol of Weakness will often mean -16 STR, with a potential for up to -18. If any other foe in that group is throwing any kind of STR drain around you can wind up in trouble, fast. A base STR of 12, +2 Tome, and keeping your STR item current will make this largely a non-issue so long as you are quick with the Lesser Restoration potions. But every bit of extra buffer space you can get is nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henshaw1 View Post
    4. Then to the spells... As I understand, I need 3 elements to cover all situations, but need to concentrate on one at first. As Fire seems to be the strongest and has the most spells in the lower level ranges, but Earth concentrates on Acid, what should I aim for? 4 spells per level doesn't really leave that many damage options, after I have taken the important CC and buff spells that I cannot get from wands (CC from wands is supposedly worthless anyway?). I also need to have AOE:s, DOT:s and long range spells, in which Acid/Fire/Cold seem to be very good at. Also the fact that when I do get the Savants, some spells I would otherwise get as early as possible, are going to be SLA:s anyway... A bit confusing. :-)
    Air is indeed a much harder element to use than the others. It has no Maximum Caster Level 25 spells, and it's only spell with no Saving Throw is Electric Surge. The heavy reliance of save DCs means that high reflex foes are going to force you out of your preferred element, and if they are immune to your secondary element then you are in a bit of trouble. The main reason that Air is offered up as the best Savant choice so often is for the unique benefit that it offers at Savant III, which is the 'wings' ability to make a fast burst of flight movement. In many of the builds that use this, they are primarily using shiradi spam spells such as Chain Missiles, Ice Storm, and Meteor Swarm to get a high number of double rainbow spell effects, which does not become available until the character has done quite a lot of epic leveling.

    As was mentioned before, Earth has some very SP efficient spells, but it is very lacking in the 'punch' that is Sorcerer's hallmark. Additionally, since everything is Damage over Time it is necessary for Acid casters to kind of wage a war of attrition with foes, keeping them in an Acid Rain while whittling them down with Black Dragon Bolts with the confidence that the Sorcerer will be able to take whatever they dish out longer than the foes will be able to survive the sustained damage. It ends up being easier on your spell point pool, but harder on your hit points and time. There is also the oddity that Acid spells are primarily Conjuration spells, while nearly every other damage spell is Evocation.

    You seem to have picked up that Fire is an amazing element when looked at in spreadsheets. And it really does perform extremely well in 90% of situations. The game has moved away from fire immune Devil foes, as at one point they were essentially the only thing that you faced in endgame content. Now there is a bit more variety, but there are still a significant number of fire immune foes in the game, more noticeable than any other element, that you will have to be ready to fall back on something other than fire to deal with. Fire also has the issue of not having any Max Caster Level 25 spells, though this is somewhat alleviated by Meteor Swarm, which has no level scaling at all but reasonable base damage.

    I have a personal bias towards Cold spells. Polar Ray is an awesome, no saving throw offered, MCL 25 direct damage, and the other commonly used MCL 25 spell, Black Dragon Bolt, is not reduced by Savant's opposition element penalty. Biting Cold is one of the two very important stacking DOT spells, and the second one, Electric Surge, is not in any way hampered by opposition element penalties. Ice Storm is almost as much damage as Wall of Fire, with the extremely nice additional perk of slowing movement. And for situations where even more AoE damage is needed you can stack an Acid Rain and Cloudkill on top of that, for less damage than Firewall + Incendiary Cloud + Acid Rain but still a respectable amount. And if you are a fan of Meteor Swarm, you can still use it to full effect since it is exactly the same with a caster level of 11 as it is with a caster level of 30, the opposition element penalties have no effect on it at all.

    Having one focused element, and one second element is enough to get by if you have a lot of foreknowledge of what is coming in the quest. Having even a minimal investment in more elements makes it easier to adapt to situations as you find yourself in them unexpectedly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henshaw1 View Post
    5. Lastly, and talking about spells: I do understand the importance of getting the second Paladin level as soon as possible, but that would also postpone my level 3 spells, most importantly either Acid Blast or Displacement. I would like to get a ranged AOE sooner than later, but I also want to get Displacement as early as possible. Most likely the blasting from range wins though, as if I get the enemies before they get in range, I won't need the extra defence (as amazing as it is) quite as much. I will be starting the toon from level 7, so it would open the opportunity to get 6 Sorcerer levels for level 3 spells, and Savant I, but would postpone the amazing saves for another level, and I would also have to "dive to the deep end" instead of having great defences to help me familiarise to the mechanics first...
    I would recommend putting off your Paladin levels until very late in the heroic levels. You can get by with just Greater Heroism and Night Shield boosting your saving throws until around the level 14 quests on Elite, which would typically be run at level 16. This kind of forces a tough choice, do you suffer through those couple of levels to get 16 levels of Sorcerer, getting either Polar Ray or Black Dragon Bolt depending on your elemental focus, and then do 2 levels of Paladin before going back for the last two levels of Sorcerer? Or do you do 12 Sorcerer levels to pick up all of the important level 5 spells and your Savant II, then grab your two Paladin levels for the bonus from Divine Grace so that you already have it when you need it the most? This is very dependent on playstyle and personal preference, and as I said I would recommend putting it off until later.
    Last edited by ForumAccess; 07-09-2013 at 10:20 AM.

  16. #16
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    Thank you all again for tips and comments. They are all very helpful.

    To Donoroq:
    Thank you for the offer, but I play on Ghallanda. Greatly appreciate the offer. :-)

    I will advance on the leveling plan from Unbongwah's post. I do listen, but I just want to be completely sure about things. :-)

    In putting the build to the planner level-by-level, I only got the build to level 14, as that's where the second tier of Savants kick in, so I didn't look closely enough. I see the Adaptability now, and I think I will take that early on to save a few points, and get the Sorcerer Charisma Enhancements II-III later.

    The strength will stay at 14 then. I have a Tempest Trapmonkey I have been familiarising myself into the game, and as they have Strenght as main stat, I haven't really paid attention to how much it really does affect things. I wasn't really against it, just wanted to know the reasoning, and it's very sound. :-)



    To Grubbby:
    You are of course right. I think I meant Acid+Fire being the ones I want to include in the build, and Earth also has the benefit of using Ice, which rounds up the damage types quite nicely. Losing Acid was of course my actual concern. I have to give up something in any case, so this time Lightning got the short end of the stick, so to speak. I don't like losing it, but can't have it all when specialising. :-)



    Thank you again, very much appreciated. :-)

  17. #17
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    The main problem with splashing more than 2 lvls on a sorc is you lose lvl 9 spells & third-tier Savant (as well as SPs, spell slots, -1 DC to Heightened spells, etc.). For an experienced caster who knows what they're doing, the pros may outweigh the cons; for a newcomer still learning how to play a sorc, though? Not a good idea, IMHO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henshaw1 View Post
    1. I noticed the build example didn't have the Human Adaptability Charisma at all, but still had Sorcerer Charisma I-III. Compared to them, I would save up to 6 points choosing Human Adaptability Charisma instead. Was that an oversight, or is there something I haven't noticed? :-)
    Check again: as Dodorog said, it's at lvl 20. Not sure why I waited so long to take it, though. This build was originally WF; I just did a quick hack-edit to switch to human.
    2. Secondly, the build has Human Improved Recovery, which looks very nice for groups and somewhat for Wands, but would I be better off with Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery, as that will be the main source of my healing?
    Human heal amp gives +10% per tier; W&S Mastery is +25/+10/+10/+10 (max +55%). So for 5 APs you could get, say, hamp 10% + W&S Mastery II (+35%). The pally splash will let you use CSW wands right away, which are readily available. I thought I had W&S Mastery in there, but I probably dropped it for more magic enhs.
    So the question is; would I be better off leaving Strength at 12, and heving some more points in Intelligence to be able to raise 3 skills, instead of only 2?
    That's an option too. INT 8 on a human is enough to max Concentration & UMD (with a rank of Tumble to unlock), the only skills I consider vital; everything else is a perk. The original version of this build took Power Atk at lvl 1 and meleed at low lvls then swapped PA later for another meta; hence the base STR 14. But then I noticed you had Vet II status, so I edited it out but didn't change stats.

    BTW, in the Enhancement overhaul, there's a new skill called Spellcraft which boosts elemental Spellpower; you'd definitely want that when it comes along. But since it's not in live yet, you can't take it and would have to LR anyway to add it post-launch.
    I will be starting the toon from level 7, so it would open the opportunity to get 6 Sorcerer levels for level 3 spells, and Savant I, but would postpone the amazing saves for another level, and I would also have to "dive to the deep end" instead of having great defences to help me familiarise to the mechanics first...
    In that case, I would probably level: sorc 1, pal 1, sorc 2-6, pal 2, sorc 7-18. I.e., grab Savant I first, then Divine Grace, then the rest of your sorc lvls.

    Also, if you don't have any caster gear, the first thing I would do is grind out some ML:8 Cannith gear; i.e., the tunic, bracers, cloak, and/or boots, depending on which elements you specialize in.

    EDIT: one minor perk of the pally splash is armor & shield prof.; invest in some reduced ASF gear and you can slap them on for some AC & PRR. Shadowmail looks like it was made for that purpose.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 07-09-2013 at 10:30 AM.

  18. #18
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    Thank you again.

    Reading the replies from Unbongwah and ForumAccess, I have to say I got a bit confused at first, but decided that the things you have different views on, are because different personal experiences and playstyle. Also different people have different views of what they like. :-)

    I went ahead on what I learned from the posts in this thread, and planned the character till level 14, and then slapped the rest in, but will re-view the 6-10 last levels later, as I didn't really concentrate on making the best possible choices (in my view) at the earliest possible levels. Also some Enhancements might not be needed, some might be missing, some Feats might be non-optimal, etc. Comments on them are welcome.

    Here's the build then:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Sr18Pl2Earth 
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
    (2 Paladin \ 18 Sorcerer) 
    Hit Points: 224
    Spell Points: 1771 
    BAB: 11\11\16\21
    Fortitude: 21
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 28
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             12                    12
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         16                    16
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             18                    27
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               1                    11
    Bluff                 4                     8
    Concentration         5                    23
    Diplomacy             4                     8
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                4                     8
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                 -1                    -1
    Intimidate            4                     8
    Jump                  1                     6
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently        -1                    -1
    Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                0                     0
    Search                0                     0
    Spot                 -1                    -1
    Swim                  1                     1
    Tumble                0                     0
    Use Magic Device      6                    19
    
    Level 1 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Force of Personality
    Spell (1): Burning Hands
    Spell (1): Nightshield
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
    
    
    Level 3 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Spell (1): Jump
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    
    
    Level 4 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Spell (1): Niac's Cold Ray
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
    
    
    Level 5 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (2): Melf's Acid Arrow
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid I
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation II
    
    
    Level 6 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Spell (2): Web
    
    
    Level 7 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (3): Acid Blast
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant I
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
    Spell (2): Blur
    Spell (3): Displacement
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation IV
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
    
    
    Level 10 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Spell (4): Wall of Fire
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting III
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    
    
    Level 11 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (2): Scorching Ray
    Spell (4): Dimension Door
    Spell (3): Fireball
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation V
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation V
    
    
    Level 12 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Conjuration
    Spell (5): Cloudkill
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid II
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid III
    
    
    Level 13 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (3): Haste
    Spell (4): Ice Storm
    Spell (5): Niac's Biting Cold
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting IV
    Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation III
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation IV
    
    
    Level 14 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Spell (6): Acid Fog
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III
    
    
    Level 15 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    Spell (4): Acid Rain
    Spell (5): Teleport
    Spell (6): Greater Heroism
    Enhancement: Deadly Ice I
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame I
    Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VII
    Enhancement: Frost Manipulation V
    
    
    Level 16 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Spell (7): Delayed Blast Fireball
    Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting V
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting II
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation VI
    Enhancement: Flame Manipulation VII
    
    
    Level 17 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (5): Cone of Cold
    Spell (6): Otiluke's Freezing Sphere
    Spell (7): Banishment
    Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting III
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid IV
    Enhancement: Deadly Acid V
    Enhancement: Deadly Flame II
    
    
    Level 18 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    Spell (8): Black Dragon Bolt
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I
    
    
    Level 19 (Sorcerer)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (8): Polar Ray
    Spell (7): Finger of Death
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II
    
    
    Level 20 (Sorcerer)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Spell (9): Power Word: Kill
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant III


    I'm still not very sure what spells are "have to have" ones, and which I could easily do without. I did research a bit on the availability of buffs etc in wands, potions and scrolls, but I'm quite sure I missed something. I would appreaciate if I could get some comments on the spell list.


    Thank you again. I have to say the community is amazing in this game (and I have seen quite a few). :-)

    Edit: Changed some spells around, as I lucked out and found an Invisibility Ring with 5 daily charges from the broker for 2500pp, talking about luck. :-) Also some of the higher ones didn't really make sense, but it's hard to know what will work that high...
    Last edited by Henshaw1; 07-09-2013 at 04:30 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henshaw1 View Post
    Reading the replies from Unbongwah and ForumAccess, I have to say I got a bit confused at first, but decided that the things you have different views on, are because different personal experiences and playstyle. Also different people have different views of what they like. :-)
    A great deal of what works beautifully and what does not manage to function depends on what content you are running, and what you playstyle is. Different aspects of spellcasting in DDO are so different from each other that what works amazingly for one person in one situation will not be the best way that another person is able to do things, and (at least before the harder Epic Elite Gianthold quests) there is no single set of spells that you can min/max to be optimal in every conceivable situation. A great deal of playing a spellcaster is left up to personal taste, what tactics work well for you, and being able to adapt to situations that are outside of your comfort zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henshaw1 View Post
    Also some Enhancements might not be needed, some might be missing
    I really would not focus too much on this. The entire Enhancement system is going to be done away with soon, replaced with a new system that is in testing on Lamannia right now. This is also when the Spellcraft skill that I mentioned before will be brought in, requiring one more skill point per level in order to not fall behind on Spellpower. Spellcasting in general is going to lose some potency, with slightly higher Spell Powers (under the right conditions) and much lower spell critical damage. But if you focus on the core class abilities that are important, your character should be able to manage the change over without too much pain.

    Also, as a Sorcerer you are able to change out one spell every 3 days, for a fee. This is important because spells like Niac's Cold Ray and Burning Hands will be absolutely vital at low levels, but never getting cast as you get into the mid levels and higher. For the most part, even spells that most people would consider 'bad' can sometimes be worth playing around with for a bit, just so that you can see for yourself why the spells might look good on a character planner, but then fail to work out in the game.

    An example of that:
    Level 14 (Sorcerer)
    Spell (6): Acid Fog
    Acid Fog deals 2d6 acid damage, with no saving throw. It has a Spell Point cost of 35. Like all Fog type spells, it offers a 20% miss chance that does not stack with Blur or Displacement, but does work even on monsters with True Seeing. In addition, it has a miniscule speed debuff for any foes inside the cloud, and they also recieve -4 to Armor Class.

    From the description, it seems like it should be a pretty solid spell for long duration damage and debuffing purposes. But let's check out how it compares to the most similar Fog type spell, Cloudkill which is one level lower.

    Cloudkill deals 2d6 +1/level (MCL:20) acid damage, as well as 1d4 Constitution damage. It offers a Fortitude save for 1/2 damage. It can not be Maximized or Empowered. It has a Spell Point cost of 30. Like all Cloud type spells, it offers a 20% miss chance that does not stack with Blur or Displacement, but does work even on monsters with True Seeing. Cloudkill will not deal damage to anything that is Immune to Poison, but it's Concealment effect will still work.

    At level 14, (2pal/12soc) when you are first able to take Acid Fog you will have 90 Acid Spell Power form Enhancements, and access to 72 Spell Power from items. Your Earth Caster Level will be 16. This gives Acid Fog an average damage of [ 7 (2d6 average) * [ 1 (base) + .9 (Enhancements) + .72 (Item) ] ] 19 for 35 Spell Points. If you want to see any real damage at all out of the spell you need to Maximize and Empower it, giving [ 7 * [1+.9+.72+ 1.5 (maximize) + .75 (empower) ] ] 34 average damage per tick and costing 75 Spell Points, reduced by any Metamagic Enhancements or Gear that you might have. At the same level, Cloudkill will be able to deal [ 23 (2d6+16 avg) * [1+.9+.72] ] 60 average damage per tick and costing 35 Spell Points. Even in the situation where the target was able to make it's saving throw every single time, that would still be 30 damage for 30 Spell Points, as opposed to 34 damage for 75 Spell Points. And the damage difference between the two spells will increase quite a lot as you gain further levels. At level 20, with Earth Savant III and Draconic Incarnation, Cloudkill's average damage will be 96 per tick for 30 Spell Points, while Acid Fog will be doing 22 average damage per tick for 35 Spell Points. Or 38 average damage for 75 Spell Points, if you were to metamagic it.

    But all Fog type spells have very low damage, aside from Incendiary Cloud possibly. The real advantage that Fogs offer come from the debuffs that they give. The problem here is the almost unnoticeable speed debuff that Acid Fog offers, because this will make it so that all creatures under the effect of Freedom of Movement, including all important bosses, will be made immune to all of the debuffs such as the Concealment and (admittedly irrelevant) AC penalty. And while the Pit Fiends and others that are immune to Poison will be immune to any Cloudkill damage, they will still have the 20% concealment debuff when attacking the party.


    Other noteworthy spells that I didn't see on your list would be:

    Protection from Evil, for immunity to Command spells. You don't really need it until mid levels, and by then Cold Ray and Burning Hands won't be getting cast any more anyways. It can really help for fights where the enemy both dispells buffs (making it hard to keep up with wands) and likes to cast Mass Command.

    Resist Energy, does not stack with Guild Buffs, but most people will find themselves need to cast it at some point, either because of a death, buffs running out, or just not wanting to take the time to run to the ship and get them.
    Knock, especially since you said that you solo often. This spell will not work on every locked door or chest, but it should be able to handle the majority of them.
    Do not give up Web, as Web + Conjuration Focus makes for some very effective Crowd Control even at end game when Heightened. You may have some trouble landing Irresistible Dance of Power Word Kill on foes with high Spell Resistance, but Web will bypass that SR.
    Scorching Ray can be nice to have the entire game through because it is a Fire spell that offers foes no Saving Throw.
    Melf's Acid Arrow will be very important to you until level 14, when you get it as an SLA.

    Halt Undead may be something that you want to try out if you find yourself not using either Fireball or Acid Blast much. It gives you the potential to walk past the undead in many quests without wasting time or very many Spell Points on them.

    Level four is a really tough level. All of your spell choices are good, but Stoneskin is much more effective when cast by an Earth Savant than it is from a wand. And Solid Fog can help a lot when you find your spells being saved against. Fire Shield is one of those things that a lot of people just use scrolls for, but that means refreshing it every minute and a half. A lot of hard choices to be made for level four spells, kind of a shame we can't use some seventh level spell slots for them!

    Protection from Elements is a spell that can be an extreme lifesaver at times. Teleport can be purchased as scrolls for when you needed. Also, you will likely want to carry a few Cyclonic Blast scrolls with you as well, for removing enemy persistent AoE and CC spells.

    I mentioned before that Acid Fog is not really a useful spell. Unfortunately, there aren't really a lot of useful spells at this level. Necrotic Ray can be very nice for level draining, but the usefulness of that is pretty dependent on what you are doing.

    Finger of Death is a level seven spell that can take enemy spell casters from absolute nightmares, to never getting to take an action. Prismatic Spray has a unique effect in that one of the many results it can have is to instantly kill targets, even ones that are protected by Death Ward. The usefulness of this depends a lot on what difficulty and how you play quests.

    The level nine spells do not really have the fear and majesty that would kind of be expected from the top level of magic. But there are some that might be more useful than Power Word: Kill. The upside is that foes get no saving throw against it, but that is offset by the rather large down side of having to get past their Spell Resistance, and the three and a half minute cooldown. You might take a second look at Meteor Swarm, Energy Drain, or Wail of the Banshee.


    Your feats seem just fine, but there might be some problems with the timing of them. Without getting Heighten a little bit earlier on your Acid Blast SLA will be of much less usefulness, since many thing will save and some evade it entirely. The same is true for Acid Spray SLA as well, though that can be of middling usefulness either way; there are usually better spells to cast by the time you hit higher levels. Also, without Heighten you will not be able to catch anything in your webs.

    Extend can be useful for your Displace and Haste spells. But if any one feat was less useful than the others it would probably be this. Other strong contenders might be Spell Focus Evocation, for your Delayed Blast Fireballs, Freezing Spheres, Cones of Cold, etc. Or Greater Spell Focus Conjuration would help with Acid Blast or the first tic of your Acid Rain and Cloudkill. And if you have a Greater Spell Focus feat, you can then take Epic Spell Focus at level 21.


    Hope you enjoy your Sorc!

  20. #20
    Community Member Henshaw135's Avatar
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    Thank you very much for the spells info. It seems hard to know what would work and what would be a waste, as I didn't really see anything useful in Cloudkill when I looked at it, but what you said makes perfect sense.

    For Protection From Evil, I have a clickie with 3 charges, so I'm not sure if I should take it at all.

    If Stoneskin is stronger cast instead of from scroll/clickie, then that's the obvious choice. Thank you for pointing that out.

    Resist Energy I see in about every spell list, but as I get 10 points protection from my gear for almost everything (fire is from a clickie, 1/day only), I didn't see it as important. I would switch it in anyway when I can get rid of Melf's though.

    For Knock I thought I had a Clickie, but don't, so I will have to fit it in. Thank you for noticing.

    I will need to review level 4 spells and decide what I want from them, thanks for the rundown. :-)

    Protection from Elements seemed to be left out from most spell lists, but I didn't really see the reason for that... I thought it looked very good, so I will re-think including it, especially as I will have to take care of my survival myself.

    I did have Meteor Swarm at level 9 originally, but for some reason replaced it. I will re-think that too.



    I have now given the toon a test run, and it's amazing how much damage it does in such a short time. I did only run a level 2 quest on Elite, but that was because I have been grinding the quest on all of my 4 toons, and it's extremely easy to see the difference. The quest in question is Haverdasher in the Harbour. It's very short with 2 chests and an end reward, and takes between 45s-1m to run from taking the quest to turning it in. That way I can get my toons some funds to gear them up, and might get lucky with a nice item for their own use too. Mostly I just sell them though (on AH or vendoring).

    All in all, the toon feels very powerful, but I do understand that doing a fast quest to kill 9 mobs is not a real measure in any sense. Still, my Tempest Trapmonkey takes double the time and get's damaged more, even with the Leathermail of Invulnerability (my Sorcerer is jealous for that, for sure), so I think I am doing quite well on the Sorcerer so far. :-) I'm not looking forward to long quests with lots of traps though... ;-P

    I have also managed to scrape up quite a decent set of gear for her, so I think most of the weaknesses are covered with gear, even though people who have played long probably have a lot better gearing options. And make better/more educated choises. ;-)



    Thank you all again for helping me get a good build that plays like I want it to, and which feels very nice and different to my other toon's melee sneaking style. :-)

    If there's still some things that look off in some way, or different opinions, I will be interested on hearing them. :-)

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