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  1. #1
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    Default Feasibility of a DDO emulator?

    I stopped playing the old EQ around the time of Planes of Power which felt like it had already jumped the shark before then. There seemed to be quite a few folks who felt the same way so they started work on an EQ emulator to recreate the original era of the game and it continues on today.

    What are the chances of this happening with DDO?

    I'm not sure what the legal issues are but if such a thing were to happen it would play so differently from how DDO works I doubt they would lose any customers since they are not aimed at the same people.

    Every update takes us further away from the base D&D rules - I would gladly pay extra for a 'core rules' server or character option but I don't see that happening as they seem set on catering more to the WoW type crowd. If they won't make a real D&D game then an emulator that does shouldn't bother them right?


    Just a note: When I say I want a core rules game I mean in every detail – permanent lvl drain, xp loss, the correct attack iteration, no enhancements or destinies, etc etc.

  2. #2
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    They already have one. It consists of books, paper, and pencils/pens.
    http://myaccount.turbine.com

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    They already have one. It consists of books, paper, and pencils/pens.
    Don't forget dice, I like dice.
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    Default here you go


  5. #5
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    You guys is so funny!


    So you funny peoples have no interest in a real D&D mmo, but some of us would love it. Does anyone have anything actually useful to say?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakharov View Post
    You guys is so funny!


    So you funny peoples have no interest in a real D&D mmo, but some of us would love it. Does anyone have anything actually useful to say?
    DDO is a emulator based on the pen and paper D&D. So making an emulator from an emulator is kinda redundant. This is about as real of a D&D mmo as your going to get not unless you want to go play that Joke of a D&D game Neverwinter.

  7. #7
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakharov View Post
    I stopped playing the old EQ around the time of Planes of Power which felt like it had already jumped the shark before then. There seemed to be quite a few folks who felt the same way so they started work on an EQ emulator to recreate the original era of the game and it continues on today.

    What are the chances of this happening with DDO?.
    I suspect you are not talking of the tabletop version all the other told you ( I can probably add my two cents on that topic too, as I've got Several Editions of (A)D&D on my shelves. ( D&D Rule Cyclopaedia, AD&D 2, AD&D 3, AD&D3.5, D&D 4 ).

    Well first, do you have any idea of what happened to the few the openly posted about information gathered about the internals of the game ?

    The answer is that they were instantly banned both from the forum and the game.

    Second there's a lot of 'plug-ins' available for the other games around, but look at what's available for DDO...

    There's almost nothing, the only things you will be able to find are :
    - The LoTRO Dat Unpacker that works not that well on DDO files ( well it works fine on sound, but that's it ).
    - The Custom UIs, but those are just pictures in a directory
    - The LoTRO Dat Defragmenter that allegedly doesn't work anymore and is officially not needed anymore. ( both allegations are to take with a grian of salt )

    You see the trend : The things are made for LoTRO and eventually some works with DDO.
    Now, there's nothing more from LoTRO that seems to work with DDO.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnziteBob View Post
    DDO is a emulator based on the pen and paper D&D. So making an emulator from an emulator is kinda redundant. This is about as real of a D&D mmo as your going to get not unless you want to go play that Joke of a D&D game Neverwinter.
    Firstly Neverwinter is nothing close to a D&D game and not even an option. I agree this is as close to a real D&D mmo as we have at the moment which is why I'm sad since it keeps moving further away from D&D every update.

    The emulator idea is based on what has already happened with EQ.. similar situation, there is still a real EQ you can play but fans made their own server that uses the original rules/spells/etc. Since it's already happened it's technically possible that we could create our own server with our own rules. So it's not as silly as it sounds. I would much rather play on that kind of server that uses straight core rules and removes all the 4th ed / WoW stuff that has bled into the game.

    The only hurdle is are there enough fans to help make such a thing? Maybe not, but I'd bet they are out there. The problem is most of them have probably lost interest or stopped playing by now. I remember seeing many posts lamenting the various changes every update but those posters have mostly gone inactive. MotU seemed to have been the last straw that pushed many fans away who would have liked a core rules option.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakharov View Post
    I stopped playing the old EQ around the time of Planes of Power which felt like it had already jumped the shark before then. There seemed to be quite a few folks who felt the same way so they started work on an EQ emulator to recreate the original era of the game and it continues on today.

    What are the chances of this happening with DDO?

    I'm not sure what the legal issues are but if such a thing were to happen it would play so differently from how DDO works I doubt they would lose any customers since they are not aimed at the same people.

    Every update takes us further away from the base D&D rules - I would gladly pay extra for a 'core rules' server or character option but I don't see that happening as they seem set on catering more to the WoW type crowd. If they won't make a real D&D game then an emulator that does shouldn't bother them right?


    Just a note: When I say I want a core rules game I mean in every detail – permanent lvl drain, xp loss, the correct attack iteration, no enhancements or destinies, etc etc.
    You can't legally use anything from Turbine. Nor can you legally use any intellectual property of Wizards (the D&D name, exact rules, etc). And at any rate, doing what you propose, legal issues aside is a lot of work. It'd be easier just to start from scratch and write your own MMO.

  10. #10
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    You can't legally use anything from Turbine. Nor can you legally use any intellectual property of Wizards (the D&D name, exact rules, etc). And at any rate, doing what you propose, legal issues aside is a lot of work. It'd be easier just to start from scratch and write your own MMO.
    It has been done in the past and there is some kind of way around such legal problems as it's been done with swg and star wars has the same kind of brand copyrights as dnd.

    http://www.swgemu.com/forums/content.php?r=173

    To see what I'm talking about.

    That said the biggest problem imo would be deciding when was the period of this game you'd want. u13? u9? mod 1? everyone would have a different opinion.

  11. #11
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    There's more to DnD then the player's handbook or the dungeon masters guide.

    Second edition is a collection of 40+ books.

    Personally I think that DDO is the closest things to it (all those books).

    And if you don't like enhancements and/or destinies, you can always opt for not taking them.

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  12. #12
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnziteBob View Post
    DDO is a emulator based on the pen and paper D&D. So making an emulator from an emulator is kinda redundant. This is about as real of a D&D mmo as your going to get not unless you want to go play that Joke of a D&D game Neverwinter.
    There is also the possibility of the Pathfinder MMO. I won't be jumping ship at all, however, due to the fact I'm not going to start over in the same genera type of game, no matter how good the game may be.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakharov View Post
    MotU seemed to have been the last straw that pushed many fans away who would have liked a core rules option.

    That ain't nothin' compared to the mass exodus when the level cap went from 10-12.

    Lots of folks out there, no idea how to get their attention however.


    I would play it.

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    I can think of few games worse than vanilla DDO (before the original enhancement updated) Painfully slow and boring.

  15. #15
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    Wasn't NWN (the original, and second version) pretty much DND out of the box. Custom creation tool kit I made quite a few expansive, and spawning mazes, and dungeons with random traps, etc.

    You know that once D20 SRD went out, it was the end for DND as most people knew it.

    Once they "Open Sourced" the core rules, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Pathfinder lifted the rules, made slight tweaks and carried on. They didn't want to compete in that space, and come up with 4e that many hated, and alienated them. Now 5e that I've play tested is coming out.

    It's dying on the vine... I know someone who works at Wizards, who USED to program for the online toolkit. Lets just say, the cash cow is Magic Online, and it is under the same roof... You figure out who gets the most resources.

    All this said... Just download and install NWN (Not the new one), and look at that community if you want DND, "true" to the rule. Custom modules can code ANYTHING in. (I wrote a lot of code when creating modules for that game.... I would compare 1 or 2 of my dungeons to production DDO.)

  16. #16
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    I was about to mention NWN and NWN2, but someone beat me to it.

    Applications like DDO and EQ are server-based, meaning that a majority of the business logic exists on the server somewhere. You generally can't "emulate" that.

    While NWN2's camera control makes me beg for the lack of camera control I had on NWN1, the tools to make your own quests aren't bad. However, you'll probably spend more time on them than making your own PnP version. That being said, I've always thought that this type of setup was more accommodating to PnP emulation than what DDO is now. DDO is more about instantaneous action, and real-time interaction.

    NWN1 has more community modules available for it than NWN2. I've been getting nostalgic for all of the old quests, and have been able to download and run stuff like Keep on the Borderlands, and that old entry-level quest where you explore an abandoned keep (cannot remember the name of it at the moment) - I loved it. The unfortunate part is that there is not a lot of QA done on community modules, and they have a tendency to be buggy or seem incomplete.

  17. #17
    Community Member grausherra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Applications like DDO and EQ are server-based, meaning that a majority of the business logic exists on the server somewhere. You generally can't "emulate" that.
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  18. #18
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    You'd be better off convincing them to Open Source DDO, which won't happen until the goose has laid it's last egg, or the books absolutely cannot be balanced another way.

  19. #19
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grausherra View Post
    1) You will get sued.

    2) The manufacturer changes the client, that emulator becomes invalid.

    3) You'd better put up with stuff on the "server emulator" not working like they intended it to.

    Because of those 3 facts, most server emulators are doomed to fail.

    Console emulators, however, are way more successful mainly because what they emulate is out-of-date technology and therefore will not be changed. A prime example of this is MAME.

  20. #20
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    I think the idea, while seemingly nice, is not feasible on a variety of fronts. While others have discussed the legal and technical issues, may I simply point to the player issues.

    As much as people are seemingly united in always saying "turbine's doing it wrong" I suspect that you'd find they are quite fractured in which version they think is the proper version of DDO's implementation. You've listed out a set of criteria, but there are many other factors that would need to be fleshed out. And I guarantee even the few you laid out would be grounds for significant arguments. I'd suspect classic EQ had a much more significant devoted player base than DDO could call on. So you'd be hard pressed to find a base of dedicated programmers and pseudo-lawyers to address the legal and technical issues others have mentioned. On top of which, its still technically not going to be a faithful recreation of DnD core given its a FPS implementation of a turn-based game. So what you'd be left with is a niche repackage of a niche game which would have to compete with the original, turn-based recreations like ToEE, and every other new MMO that comes out for people's time.

    Sorry, I don't mean to rain on your idea too much.
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