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  1. #81
    Community Member Danemoth's Avatar
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    It's interesting to read this thread and see all these generalized uses of "they". Who is they? Do no one realize that a single person can only speak for themselves and no one else?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    Pretty much everything you list here are problems of your own making. First you say they should add more content, though you admit yourself that you skip 50% or more of the content for the sake of efficiency in leveling. Then you complain about how boring it is. To me, this is like blaming a company that makes bricks if you decide the best use for them is to repeatedly smash yourself in the head.
    spoken like a fanboii who misses the whole point. The fact is DDO trained us vets from year one on to just rerun the same quest 3X over then move on. No one ran stuff through normal then went back through hard etc, not when it was practical due to the poor design of the game being so easy to META that it rewarded us like good little mice for learning the fastest way through each maze.

    But people kept defending it, especially the idiotic failure of the first craft system that was green steel, totally walking away from the PNP standards more then any thhing else had up to taht point. So the mice kept rerunning the so called end game raid that really was just the stagnation point we got left at for years. Ofcourse this only helped make the long term health of the game even harder to plan for as die hards grounded out all taht GS gear, and ofcourse devs then decided that gear check for all content after would be that raid gear only the hard cores went after, meaning new players where being totally locked out of new content they where buying into just as much as the vets.

    Turbine built the road we all walk down, and it is not paved in gold, nor held together by anything other then positive bonds formed between players who are hesitant to move on to better games and risk losing those bonds completely.

    DDO could be great, but not as long as its run b turbine. They like Cryptic seem able to get a good foundation started but are worthless at building it up.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    spoken like a fanboii who misses the whole point. The fact is DDO trained us vets from year one on to just rerun the same quest 3X over then move on. No one ran stuff through normal then went back through hard etc, not when it was practical due to the poor design of the game being so easy to META that it rewarded us like good little mice for learning the fastest way through each maze.
    Guess I wasn't part of that training. The problem is efficiency. Once you touch it, you never wanna go back even though that might be the most pleasant solution. It's not Turbine that makes you believe that if you don't TR within 7-14 days or didn't complete a quest as fast as a caster zerging you failed and wasn't fast/good enought. Easier to point the blame.

    I won't defend that it is perfect but you have to understand that players have a big part of responsability and if they chose to go for efficiency vs fun (note that both can be achieved at the same time... until it gets boring), they are hurting themselves.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 07-12-2013 at 07:53 PM.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    Guess I wasn't part of that training. The problem is efficiency. Once you touch it, you never wanna go back even though that might be the most pleasant solution. It's not Turbine that makes you believe that if you don't TR within 7-14 days or didn't complete a quest as fast as a caster zerging you failed and wasn't fast/good enought. Easier to point the blame.

    I won't defend that it is perfect but you have to understand that players have a big part of responsability and if they chose to go for efficiency vs fun (note that both can be achieved at the same time... until it gets boring), they are hurting themselves.
    Guess I need to bother to actually state the specifics when I say failed flawed design. NO random elements to dungeons to make zerging impossible. If traps where both deadly and completely random for starters it would have a HUGE impact on how people approach this game. If they stopped making loot specific to a adventure, and instead did reward tokens to exchange for virtually anything a player could want, then people would gravitate towards the content they most enjoyed while earning towards the universal goal we all share of improving our character. When you tie a specific item to a specific drop it only breeds competition between players of similar characters and creates various reasons to exclude each other.

    If it did not idiotically punish people for learning these quests due to things like re entry( like getting killed isnt enough of a downer for many people playing but to then make it so you either restart completely or depend on allies to get you back up is insult on top of injury) or death penalty impacting end XP rewards. Oh and if they would just be like all the many more fun RPGs in history that award xp per kills so even if you wipe, or just feel like logging out mid quest cus your bored, you dont feel like it was a waste of time. Because then it lead to the current trend of too short of content many are complaining about, not grasping it was the only alternative in the current system to make the game more casual friendly. Only now and then do I and many other older gamers or younger gamers with good parent oversite, put in more then an hour a day on a game rarely all in one sitting. If I want to play in 10 or 15 minute moments of stolen hobby time, I cant expect to feel like playing a game that expects me to either know and zerg a long dungeon, or joina group purely for fun knowin i will have to leave them hanging mid quest with no reward for myself and little reason due to late entry and missed loot for new comers to join.

    So many little aspects of DDO lead up to the ultimate issue, why group with an unknown quantity when time is limited and drama heavily reduced when alone or with real friends? For me its a mixutre of feeling rushed or pressured to know content rather then just run it, of feeling like I have to devote time to specific content to aquire gear to make future play less a hardship and more a fun time, of feeling like if I form a group there will be expectations placed on me and resonsabilities beyond jsut playing for fun.

    I just want to log in and run whatever I want with no hassle, on any character no matter build or concept, and not be harrassed by others. DDO rarely makes that an option unless its played solo. That is why I barely play anymore, never recommend the game to others any more, and in fact warn those who would join or have just joined to move on to a newly launched MMO. If its one thing I learned being at an MMO at launch vs starting it a few years late, its never that fun to be a late comer to the big party that it was fashionable to be early for.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    ...
    I don't wanna say this in a negative way because we are who we are but... I really think also that you are your own enemy in this particular case. Or you just don't really like the game but are stuck in it due to time involved, friends or whatever other reasons. You see, I don't see what you stated the same way as you do, hence why it's not pure bad design but a question of like/dislike. Games (most of em) are offered as they are, not open for you to shape to your personnal need.

    Sometimes a break helps putting stuff back in perspective, even if that means leaving the game. Feel free to disregard, I actually am guessing since I have no clue who/how you truely are.
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

  6. #86
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    Guess I need to bother to actually state the specifics when I say failed flawed design. NO random elements to dungeons to make zerging impossible. If traps where both deadly and completely random for starters it would have a HUGE impact on how people approach this game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    I just want to log in and run whatever I want with no hassle, on any character no matter build or concept, and not be harrassed by others. DDO rarely makes that an option unless its played solo.

    So you want to make the game hard enough to stop zerging powermachines AND easy enough for every noobs with every build to complete every kind of content and get every kind of reward?

    Good Luck with your holy crusade of making the game hard and easy at the same time
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    I don't wanna say this in a negative way because we are who we are but... I really think also that you are your own enemy in this particular case. Or you just don't really like the game but are stuck in it due to time involved, friends or whatever other reasons. You see, I don't see what you stated the same way as you do, hence why it's not pure bad design but a question of like/dislike. Games (most of em) are offered as they are, not open for you to shape to your personnal need.

    Sometimes a break helps putting stuff back in perspective, even if that means leaving the game. Feel free to disregard, I actually am guessing since I have no clue who/how you truely are.
    My goal is not to shape it to my idea, but to a more traditionally accepted and proven effective system.

    DDO was far from my first MMO or last. I can still recall how in year one of DDO I quickly noticed how much META gaming took hold of those who played through the content. How quickly it began creating the needless barriar between those who where in the know and those still learning. I and many others have time and again pointed to non randomized traps as one of the KEY factors in this.

    PnP D&D players learn to be very wary of traps and at first so did DDO players, until they relize spending those points in spot are pointless when you can just memorize the content. Likewise if dungeons did not use completely pre designed maps but used a random generation element found in other MMOs and is a tool used by PnP DMs for years, the random map generator favored especially for creating the Infamous effect of undermountain forever changing.

    Yes some of the pre designed content is so good its easy to re run it on new builds. Im like that for a few of the oldest like STK and even the ever common love/hate chain of tangle root that most will always go through for the deathward clicky goggles if nothing else.

    But in the end especially for TRing, running the EXACT SAME content over and over is beyond insanity. I can rerun a challenge more simply due to the mild variations.

    But the better DDO is not hard to imagine, and that is the reason for anger and frustration directed at turbine more then anything else. I can easily imagine that DDO, one where each day a person logs on to run exactly what they feel like while gaining measurable progress towards character improvements. If we only had simple actual PnP crafting rules, and would not have silly repeat penalties on top of all the other issues so even using that system cant be done anymore without major changes being made elsewhere. Hence the ultimate failure of the flawed haphazardly stacked house of cards design of DDO making its future certain to be rife with more growing pains then momentous milestones on the path to maturity.

    At least some old MMOs like Planet Calypso where built on engines that can be easily updated, lucky? or simple thoughtful foresight on the part of its original dev team? Considering its a game more then a decade old and doing millions in purchases of its ingame money each year with no sign of slowing, me thinks they had a good idea few others have had the good sense to follow.

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