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  1. #121
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    This is so insanely broken it's not funny. I plan on abusing the hell out of this, it'll be awesome.

    Then Turbine will eventually nerf this because it is insanely over-powered and the forum nerd-rage will be glorious.

    Trolling . . . it's a growth industry.
    Sad thing is, even with the retardedly broken builds, I've run out of steam for making characters that take advantage of such features.

    As someone I know put it, it almost seems like Turbine doesn't really know how to balance their game, what with nerfing the classes (sorcs that aren't shiradi, barbarians, clerics) that need buffing the most and introducing such broken builds as this, or several ranger builds I've been looking at.

    I just don't have the desire to TR all of my characters to avoid all of the bugs so far in the enhancement pass, and completely regear and redesign just to approach my current power for the builds I have...or else making my builds into retardedly overpowered builds (which will probably be quite common in the near future).
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  2. #122
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    I share your concern with the Blue armor, and while the reduced crits do hurt some, relocating it's spell pen & potency would cause some serious headaches for me, not to mention the loss of set bonus (w/Blue helm) so I'll likely be keeping it as far from useless. As for the Skiver... What can I say? I've always thought it was over rated, but that's just my opinion...

    I find it quite interesting that we have both chosen the same piece of gear (Blue armor) as an example to support opposite positions on the matter... Eye of the beholder, eh?
    First off, i'm talking about the regular blue armor, not the flawless stuff. There is no set bonus that i am aware of with that. On the regular armor, the spell pen only goes up to level 7? Not quite high enough. The potency is 52. My divine is going to have something else boosting any spell power he cares about higher than that. So it's pretty much of a non factor for me. I never intentionally slot potency on any toon. It just comes along as a kicker on lots of things.

  3. #123
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Sad thing is, even with the retardedly broken builds, I've run out of steam for making characters that take advantage of such features.

    As someone I know put it, it almost seems like Turbine doesn't really know how to balance their game, what with nerfing the classes (sorcs that aren't shiradi, barbarians, clerics) that need buffing the most and introducing such broken builds as this, or several ranger builds I've been looking at.

    I just don't have the desire to TR all of my characters to avoid all of the bugs so far in the enhancement pass, and completely regear and redesign just to approach my current power for the builds I have...or else making my builds into retardedly overpowered builds (which will probably be quite common in the near future).
    The retardedly broken builds are the only thing keeping this steaming-pile of an ENH pass interesting.

    I've got 11 months left on a subscription and bought my expansion code with in-game trades so I pretty much have nothing to lose. I'm so looking forward to the nerd-rage from when some of these literally INSANELY OP builds are brought into check.

  4. #124
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    On the regular armor, the spell pen only goes up to level 7? Not quite high enough.
    Good news, everyone. On Lama, Spell Pen enchantments are not limited by spell level anymore.

    That is a buff, right?
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  5. #125
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    Default Short list of Positives...

    Extremely short list of positives compared to the list of nerfs, by a ratio of about 1 buff to 6 nerfs.

    "KOBOLD SAYS YOU SMELL FUNNY."

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyligul View Post
    Extremely short list of positives compared to the list of nerfs, by a ratio of about 1 buff to 6 nerfs.

    "KOBOLD SAYS YOU SMELL FUNNY."
    Only cause every positive that is posted, the same nay sayers hijack the thread and spit out 4 pages of the same stuff from the debuff thread...

    There are a lot more positives, but apparently only the people with negative views care to post.

    I gained 2 int, and 500 mana on Lamina too. Another "buff". Instead of 3 int, it's easy to nail 4 int. The capstone for mage, and pale master is also buffed.
    Last edited by 350zguy; 07-07-2013 at 05:49 PM.

  7. #127
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    or some of us don't have access to see for our selves on Lamma and can only go by what others say and what is posted. its like telling the world the aliens are coming.

  8. #128
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    First off, i'm talking about the regular blue armor, not the flawless stuff.
    Oh, yep... My bad on the assumption.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  9. #129
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    or some of us don't have access to see for our selves on Lamma and can only go by what others say and what is posted. its like telling the world the aliens are coming.
    Very much so ^this.^

    Bringing the lama discussions to the general forum is essentially saying "here's my opinion, and it should be yours too!"

    Both the buff & nerf threads, and just about every thread previous has been asking/encouraging people to form opinions and complain/argue with no first hand knowledge of what their "discussing." There has not yet (that I've found, anyway) been a single thread on the topic along the lines of bringing an objective report to the general populace of what's going on with the enhancement pass, during either it's alpha or bata phases.

    Instead, it's a bunch of "It sucks, here's why" with a few peoe offering posative counters, only to get piled on by the "no, it sucks!" crowd. There are absolutely some posatives coming, and some negatives; which out weighs which is largely opinion based, and usually revolves around "my toon won't be as awesome as it is right now."

    We can toss around opinions of what this should've been vs what it is all day long, they still aren't going to scrap it. They also aren't likely to weigh their decisions heavily on the uninformed opinions of those who haven't actually tinkered with the new system. That's (presumably) why they have all the surveys on lamaland and not in the general pop.

    Why waste time posting biased commentary here, instead of offering constructive feedback over there? Change is coming, like it or not. Players will adapt or leave. Personally, I'm hoping for a majority of the former; but regardless rallying the uninformed into torch & pitchforkers won't do squat.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 07-07-2013 at 06:32 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  10. #130
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    Only cause every positive that is posted, the same nay sayers hijack the thread and spit out 4 pages of the same stuff from the debuff thread...

    There are a lot more positives, but apparently only the people with negative views care to post.

    I gained 2 int, and 500 mana on Lamina too. Another "buff". Instead of 3 int, it's easy to nail 4 int. The capstone for mage, and pale master is also buffed.
    Plenty of people arguing in the nerf thread, and talking about things they like or things they don't consider a nerf. The truth is that the "buffs" in the pass seem to be in large part significantly about "broken synergies" beyond that the featured and actually NEW abilities (as opposed to just weaker versions of things on live) are often things that give 6 seconds of power if the stars align just right and you roll 5 vorpals in the space of 10 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown (i know exaggerating but a lot of that stuff is hard to care about even for power gamers).

    The fact is even people being positive about the EP don't really want to post those abilities because they know they'll scoffed at (the abilities). And frankly the type of player who is likely to not really care about losing power to nerfs, is also very unlikely to care about stacking debuffs/counter activated new clickies which are unlikely to stack much and which require minding cooldowns and incorporating a new clickie into their playstyle and hotbars.

    In other words a lot of the buffs in the EP are trifling/lame/pointless.

  11. #131
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Very much so ^this.^

    Bringing the lama discussions to the general forum is essentially saying "here's my opinion, and it should be yours too!"

    Why waste time posting biased commentary here, instead of offering constructive feedback over there? Change is coming, like it or not. Players will adapt or leave. Personally, I'm hoping for a majority of the former; but regardless rallying the uninformed into torch & pitchforkers won't do squat.
    Actually it's more like: hey here's some nerfs and some buffs you all should know about and discuss.

    A lot of people don't participate on the lam forums, seeing it here for the first time, there are posts in this thread and the nerf counterpart from people who are CLEARLY FINDING OUT FOR THE FIRST TIME. So your contention that it serves no purpose to bring this to general is simply wrong.

    Torches and pitchforks abound on Lam how long did it take to get Varg to say they don't "intend a nerf" with spell power and crit changes? People have been complaining about it non stop since day one! Sometimes you have to raise your voice to be heard. Sitting back and comfortably trusting Turbine to make the right choices at every turn is just hopelessly naive and this is confirmed more so by Varg saying that after weeks.

  12. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    We should compare characters nakid... Why? Because anything not nakid is an equipment change, or something to that effect. .
    No, we should compare them as we play them.

    Why? Because that is where you feel the nerf...not standing naked in a bar.

    The entire point of this is that the SPow is, in some ways, boosted, but it is overbalanced by the changes to gear and, to a lesser extent, enhancements to as to reduce the power of characters who equip themselves for actually running quests.

  13. #133
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    well one thing im happy about is the changes to divine might for pallys on lama land, the cast time seems instant or a whole lot faster than it was before. And it can last a longer than a minute if you get the top tier in it. It gives cha mod to damage another thing I like its about a 2-3 more damage for my toon,

    Yeah I downloaded lama so I could see things for myself its going to cut into my already low ammount of time to play ddo but I think it might be worth it.........haha and all the free goodies even though I know its not for real made me feel like it was an early christmas. Thanks to the people who circulated their hoarded stashes around the lama AH, it might give me a imbalanced veiw cause not all my toons are ever going to be that well geared........ but I couldnt help myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    This is so insanely broken it's not funny. I plan on abusing the hell out of this, it'll be awesome.

    Then Turbine will eventually nerf this because it is insanely over-powered and the forum nerd-rage will be glorious.

    Trolling . . . it's a growth industry.
    Yes well it will be two rounds of epic nerd rage all the nerd rage screaming for it to be nerfed then all the nerd rage after it gets nerfed it will be popcorn worthy. I don't really get how some are so happy about the pass because they think its going to *level* the playing field and its going to totally get *rid* of those people who are going to look for the most powerful combinations for builds.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 07-07-2013 at 09:15 PM.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjw View Post
    No, we should compare them as we play them.

    Why? Because that is where you feel the nerf...not standing naked in a bar.

    The entire point of this is that the SPow is, in some ways, boosted, but it is overbalanced by the changes to gear and, to a lesser extent, enhancements to as to reduce the power of characters who equip themselves for actually running quests.
    Well they didn't change any spell power items that I have seen. All the numbers remain the same.

    The only thing that was changed (as far as I can see) is you can no longer "buy" up to 100 bonus spell power. It is auto granted to your character based on caster level I must assume.

    I'll bop back over to test and roll a straight up level 7 wizard and see what their spell power is gained at each level.

    I didn't hit any less hard with crits, I may have hit less often, but I would have to spend a freaking hour testing on hundreds of casts to get anything close to reality.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    I'll bop back over to test and roll a straight up level 7 wizard and see what their spell power is gained at each level.
    Well I found it... I guess I should learn to RTFM.

    You gain 1 universal spell power per point you spend in AM, and .75 per point you spend in PM, with an additional .75 in Neg per point in PM.

    Then the healing/repair/spellcraft buffs.


    So 80 points for a cap wizzy.

    My split was 38/42 so 38+31.5== 69.5

    My naked spellcraft is 23+Hero+Int==19+23==42+69.5==111.5 (Gee I have 112 spell power naked!)


    So the "previous" max you could get naked was 100, I ended up with 112.

    For the Necro spells I ended up far better, because the 1.5 * 42 + heal bumped me even higher.

  16. #136
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    I also noted that enhancements get you 8% crit, old was 9%

    New items 6% crit

    However you get 5% base now.

    So, I don't fully understand every source of crit in the NEW system, in the old system it was 1% for feat 9% enhancements and 12% and item.

    So you would end up at about 22% ish....

    New I get 8% feats 8% enhancements and 6% items and end up at 22% ish....

    So.... I'm not sure where the nerf is, except maybe the damage multiple.
    Last edited by 350zguy; 07-08-2013 at 12:27 AM.

  17. #137
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Actually it's more like: hey here's some nerfs and some buffs you all should know about and discuss.
    But discuss them based on what? The samples of info presented? Take HP for instance: in the "nerfs" thread, the general statement put forward was "HP is getting nerfed," and much rage ensued. It took until page 3 of this thread, where Deadlock produced a charted breakdown showing that in actuality, wether it's a buff or nerf is entirely situational based on your combination of race & class/multiclass split (& how you split it).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    A lot of people don't participate on the lam forums, seeing it here for the first time, there are posts in this thread and the nerf counterpart from people who are CLEARLY FINDING OUT FOR THE FIRST TIME. So your contention that it serves no purpose to bring this to general is simply wrong.
    My point that only getting partial information is not helpful still holds. Of course they're finding out for the first time: this is general/live, while the subject matter being discussed isn't available on live. What's actually been going on here is the equivalent of T.V. commercials supporting/opposing a ballot measure: limited information is being presented in a biased manor from those with an agenda. "It sucks, here's why" vs "It's good, here's why" all for the purpose of convincing those with no first hand experience what their opinion should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Torches and pitchforks abound on Lam how long did it take to get Varg to say they don't "intend a nerf" with spell power and crit changes? People have been complaining about it non stop since day one! Sometimes you have to raise your voice to be heard. Sitting back and comfortably trusting Turbine to make the right choices at every turn is just hopelessly naive and this is confirmed more so by Varg saying that after weeks.
    And my point is that LamaLand is where those torches & pitchforks belong. Did Varg make his (hers?) "no nerfs intended" statement on Lama or General? Lama is where all the info is available, for anyone willing (and able) to go and check it out for themselves. That is where the constructive stuff is happening, not here in the general forum where people are so busy trying to convince eachother -again, some of whom have zero first hand knowledge- what is "good" or "bad" not to mention how or why. That's what's unproductive & rediculous.

    Any attempt at arguing a position based on "what I heard was..." instantly looses credibility, as you're obviously basing your opinion on somebody else's experience rather than your own.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 07-07-2013 at 11:10 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  18. #138
    Community Member sdrocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    or some of us don't have access to see for our selves on Lamma and can only go by what others say and what is posted. its like telling the world the aliens are coming.
    Everyone can access lamania. you just need to download and install the client. You can build your own build all the way to 25 including ED's and u have a wide selection of weapons both epic and heroic versions.

  19. #139
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdrocky View Post
    Everyone can access lamania. you just need to download and install the client. You can build your own build all the way to 25 including ED's and u have a wide selection of weapons both epic and heroic versions.
    The installation fails for a lot of people. I have no idea why.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    But while I do love exploring new design options, when the answer to the question "How do I best build my Favored Soul?" is "TR to Cleric so I can get the new Disciple spells, they are better than anything that Angle of Vengeance or Favored Soul as a core class have to offer." there is something really wrong.
    Your opinion is example of why I think we are going to be ok. My take on the divine disciple is that it wasn't strong enough and that almost any direct damage caster should be trying to figure out how to splash 2 or 4 FVS levels.

    If we can have the exact opposite opinion... chances are it is balanced fairly well.

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