With the exception of Cleric and Monk, the majority of this is incorrect. The only thing that Arcanotechnician really adds to Artificer is essentially useless new 'admixture' SLAs. And it even pulls the Iron Defender enhancements that were a completely different pool of AP to use on your Iron Defender and makes you spend your own AP on them. And even worse, it locks the capstone that they have now being a really bad tree, making it mutually exclusive with focusing on the Battle Engineer tree.3) Numerous classes are getting new Prestige lines: Artificer (Arcanotechnician), Barbarian (Occult Slayer, Ravager), Cleric (Divine Disciple, Protector), Favoured Soul (Protector), and Monk (Henshin Mystic). This presents new, never before seen multi-class opportunities, even if old ones need to be tweaked.
Barbarian also has the difficulty of having their core abilities tossed around through three separate trees. Barbarian at least does get new abilities in these changes, but the majority of the new stuff seems to scale extremely badly, making it only actually relevant for a window of levels that typically go by very quickly.
The Protector tree for Clerics and Favored Souls is so terrible that it stands without being said. Clerics certainly did get something interesting in Divine Disciple, creating a much more viable offensive casting divine based on Light damage. Monks are a rather bitter disappointment, but at least they are getting some interesting and thought provoking things. Even if they are extremely counter to the core of the monk class.
Having Want Heightening folded into Wand Mastery could be considered a near-meaningless buff. But there is no way to look at Wand & Scroll Mastery now requiring Wand Heightening in some Trees as anything but a nerf.5) Some classes had Wand/Scroll Mastery and Wand Heightening folded into a single Enhancement rather than keeping them separate. Others still have them as two different enhancements, which is unfortunate, but it should be petitioned to be changed for consistency.
You are correct in that there are some good, positive things in this change. Mostly that melees can get a more interesting, active combat style rather than just 'hulk smash'ing their way through everything. But even most of these things that you have picked out as 'buffs' are nerfs or at best lateral changes made up and put in the best possible light.
Can someone please define "Buff" and "Nerf" because I do not think my definitions match some posters here.
They scream for numbers and when they get them, they fall silent and change their argument to:
- it's a "buff"
- you now how more weapon variety [monk, ranger, rogue posts]
- You have SLA's [casters]
- You shouldn't of been able to do that in the first place [non-cookie cutter builds]
Yes I know I am challenging specific posters here, but I am asking you to prove your stance and not change/deflect the message. I know you think the pass is good and you are entitled to your opinion. We are also entitled to our opinion.
Just provide numbers to your opinion like you demand of ours. Prove that weapon variety will be good using numbers (i.e. DPS). When the smoke clears, that is all that matters when you are facing "Uber Boss" in the raid. Because we need an increase of DPS to make up for the loss of HP's most builds are losing. You do ZERO DPS if you are at 0 HP's or less. So that insignificant 20 HP's isn't so insignificant anymore. There is a reason False Life items are always slotted. Every bit above 0 is important.
You can ask for numbers all day long, but we can ask you to do the same.
Show how those SLA's increase your productivity to the group now that you do less damage (because you have a lack of spell power). Now that you are doing less damage, fights will last longer. Fights last longer means you need to have more HP's. And because you have to take skills/Feats to buff your spell power (in its current form) you are less versatile. Let's talk about Sorcerer's who may become a liability during certain events because they no longer have access to opposing schools or force.
Show how doing less healing (Devotion) or receiving less healing (Healing Amp) is a good thing. Now combine that with less HP's most builds will have!
You can talk about all the great things we will get, and it may very well be greater than what we lose, but we have shown our cards, now show yours.
They lose out on 62hp, which is less than 5% of their hp total. So yes, it's a hit.
This is also ignoring that the people who aim for these hp totals (and also including the people who have this much hp regardless of destiny, aka the idiots in Sentinel constantly running Vigor and have 1500hp) are going to take things from the Stalwart line that's going to be implemented. That 1hp per point spent is going to be abused by the people who will end up spending 40 or so points into that tree (don't act like you haven't met people who do this idiotic stuff) which instantly translates into 40hp.
So those high HP tank builds people like to make so they can drool over their hitpoints?
Seems like they will lose 22hp.
1.6% of their total.
86 --> 174+
220 --> 208-
148 --> 196+
208 --> 196-
126 --> 174+
86 --> 174+
198 --> 217+
86 --> 158+
86 --> 174+
1370 --> 1822
Live --> Lam
HUGE boost to overall spell power. Same gear.... PM, with SLAs I never had. Yes I lost 12 to cold, and 12 to fire. However I gained 19 to neg, and LOTS across the board. My lightning hits better, my SLA kinetics hit way harder, less total itemization, more damage options.
But hey... Clearly you don't run the character I run, and the enhancement pass is not all "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM".
Crazy, because I have the game open, and the exact same character open, with the exact same build, right after copy, and I gained spell power in almost EVERY category....
Gained SLAs, Gained pet, gained in DCs... Everything except fire and cold went up. (Now I haven't really fiddeled with crits, but I was never a huge CRIT junkie, I mostly play DC, and support. So this is a great boon to my toon.)
BTW this is with a 0 spellcraft. So if I were to invest 12 points... I would be ahead by ever more...
230 <-- Cold
218 <-- Fire
228 <-- Neg
1998 <--- DOOOOOOOM!!!!!! 10-30 increase of the three I use all day long. + SLAs.
Oh and 500 spell points... 2192 on "LIVE" in shadow dancer ~2600 on LAM in shadow dancer.
Last edited by 350zguy; 07-06-2013 at 02:56 PM.
I rather enjoy all the assumptions about my character being thrown around but please, do continue to derail my thread by talking about how terrible a person I am for liking the Enhancement Pass.
As for the HP nerfs, it's so minor compared to the amount of HP people have. I've said all along that it's minor, and I don't see 20-70 HP being game breaking.
I honestly don't understand why some race/class combos should have the amount of HP they had. Why should a Halfling Rogue have comparable HP to a Dwarven Cleric? Or even a Warforged Barbarian? Why should a Drow Wizard be able to keep up in HP?
Based on what another poster put in about what's available, this only reaffirms my belief about the way the game should be balanced: Arcanes and other squishies should not have comparable HP to other classes unless they heavily over-specialize by taking a multi-class or being a race that's more hardy. If anything, this might see some more variety in the races chosen since all that's ever running around is Human and the occasional WF.
That's all I have to say on it. Yes, you're right, it's a nerf. I'll remove it. Happy? Let's get back to the thread and stop flaming people.
Many mobs are poison immune even to damage, this is situational dps similar to pally kotc dps is currently.- excellent poison damage (again ninja spy)
That's great when soloing but it's a very rare quest where people want to wait for you to hero sneak it while they pike. Sneaking is a great idea and it works for assassins who pop into sneak at the door, go hit assassinate, then dps like normal. For the others sorry don't see how this will do anything for the vast majority of gamers. Sneaking over all seems like a bad mechanic for how this game is primarily made.You can sneak 50% faster (with ranger, monk or rogue) so you're sneak speed goes from 50 up to 75%. With the new mechanics I was able to literally walk circles around the monsters from a lv18 quest with no equipment whatsoever and relying only on my hide/walk silently skills (from dex + points + enhancements).
Pretty sure that dws already had this, not a ranger expert though, maybe someone else can answer this for sure.Deepwood sniper has a lv6 ability/clicky attack which after a hit (there are 2 possible choices a melee and a ranged attack) makes the target bluffed for 4s (with a CD 6s) WITHOUT A NEED FOR A BLUFF SKILL AND NO SAVES INVOLVED. You get extra PBS range and max Archer focus stacks (up to 25).
There are several problems with this. First you can boost your str up higher than dex so str will still have better damage. Top that off overwhelming critical which is pretty much required for good melee dps has a high str requirement so going dex will get you lower damage and a worse critical profile. It's not quite as bad to be a dex build but it's still pretty bad.For DEX build lovers - lv3 rogue gives you DEX to DMG/ATK for staves, daggers, kukri and if you have weapon finesse - for every melee weapon which uses your dex for attack modofier. 3 monk gives you DEX to DMG/ATK for slash/pierce weapons you are centered with (shurikens too). Halfling gives DEX to DMG/ATK for shurikens. Deepwood sniper and Tempest have DEX to DMG/ATK as well
This really isn't a buff, I see while they are doing it theme wise, (with a monk splash it brings kensai prc a little closer to kensai pnp) however it's going to cause so much rage once people start doing 9monk6ranger5fighter builds that go kensai with a 2hw, pick up all that defensive stuff you just mentioned, and still have manyshot, along with improved evasion. Just watch the forum rage will be epic.
And if you want something a bit more broken - Fighters can run around in Great Axe, centered and with full monk stances even with 1 level of monk.
1 monk shintao gives you a defensive stance (for 6 AP) which gives 35 PRR, 5% dodge, 75% TGen and -40% offhand attack chance. 2 more AP and you get an intimidate ability which uses concentration instead. A 2nd level of monk and 3 more AP gives you 15 more PRR
"why should you be able to build a well rounded character" ... maybe you can put that in your "buff list"
6) Well rounded characters are properly more restricted to being more specialized
I also look forward to building a Warforged Barbarian 1 / 19 Earth Savant as a future character when the Enhancement Pass goes live, since I've always wanted a melee/arcane build to play with and using DoTs, buffs, and repairs to bolster 2 handed weapon damage would be fun, but of course I have to spread my feat choices out between melee and caster (or focus on only one), lose out on much of what Barbarian gets, lose out on DCs, spell points, crit, etc... just to be a melee caster like that.
So if I wanted people more pigeon-holed, why would I do things like that?
Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Really, to try to develop a game that plays along the lines you seem to favor would entail either making the incoming damage smaller, that just favors the high hp builds even more. Or increasing the defensive possibilities of those without them, which leads to either functional invulnerability or being hostage to fate as a couple (un)lucky hits could end things without any chance to react (think the infamous ogre double crit).
And it looks like (before spending skill points), that your highest spell power values went down. That is the complaint. Depending on your class, it can be worse. As a PM, you have high INT, giving you a large attribute mod to spell craft. And you can easily afford the skill points to put into it. Other casters are not so fortunate. Look at a sorcerer. They lose 20 from the capstone, don't get the attribute mod to spell craft, have a harder time sinking skill points into spell craft. If you have to spend skill points / int mod / +skill gear to keep your spell power where it is, then you are being nerfed. PMs fair the best out of any caster (in terms of spell power) due to being INT based. Druids also do reasonably well compared to live in terms of spell power - because there enhancements on live are terrible (only 65 instead of 100).
Don't get me wrong, there is some good stuff in the enhancement pass. But, spell power is generally being nerfed.
Come the nerfs, people will be like "oh wait that was what I loved about the pass" and they will be left looking at the "ess in the other hand".
You know my thread isn't a "whats bad in the enhancement pass" it's strictly objectively measurable nerfs (near as I can keep it) things that you no longer get or that now cost more AP's to get less of...
If I made a "bad things (not nerfs) in the enhancement pass thread" it would be a long list... populated by a whole lot of "for 6 seconds you do a paltry amount of extra damage, stacking on vorpal hits that you will almost never stack more than one of because you have to roll a 20 every 5 seconds, and watch a cooldown/counter stack before you can activate it" style "abilities" that the average player will probably completely ignore.
Code:One With The Blade: Your melee Focus weapons are considered Centering. This ability does not affect ranged weapons. AP Cost: 1 Level: 5 Progression: 40 Requires: Fighter Level 5, Keen Edge, Deadly Strike (Keen edge and deadly strikes are also tier 5 level 5 fighter required)
BTW this ability is one of the best most interesting "multiclass synergy" abilities in the pass, but I expect it to be nerfed to hell. Sadly.
Last edited by Ironclans_evil_twin; 07-06-2013 at 03:14 PM.
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