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  1. #61

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    I have bought a number of Otto's Boxes in the past, and if offered again I would likely buy several more. But I won't be buying any Bigby's Boxes.

    The TR process for me is fun initially, but becomes unfun in the later levels. The early stuff is fun, there are a variety of quests that are forgiving for whatever playstyle I choose for that life, and the XP requirements for leveling aren't onerous. But in the later levels, 16-20 or so, it becomes an enormous grind. There are far fewer quests to choose from, it can be difficult to keep an elite streak going when playing solo, and the XP required per level is ballooning exponentially while many of the quests in that range give absolutely terrible XP.

    To me, the entire purpose for buying and using an XP stone from an Otto's Box is to mitigate that grind from 16 to 20. That is the motivating purpose to me, while the 8-16 part of the stone is merely a minor bonus. I don't care that much about skipping 8-16; XP is still plentiful in that range, there are a lot of fun quests to choose from, and the grind isn't too bad either.

    The printed description of what the stones do is 100% irrelevant. All that maters is how they actually function. Otto's Box mitigates the grind from 16-20 that I find unfun, thus increasing my enjoyment of the game and making me willing to buy them. Bigby's Box does absolutely nothing for 16-20, so it does not increase my enjoyment and I won't be buying any. It's as simple as that.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley_Nicholas View Post
    To me, the entire purpose for buying and using an XP stone from an Otto's Box is to mitigate that grind from 16 to 20.
    This seems to be a fairly common sentiment. I wonder how well a stone would sell if it left you playing all the way up to 16, then auto leveled you from 16-20? (While working Bigby style - meaning no "undocumented bonus")
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 07-06-2013 at 01:29 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  3. #63
    Community Member Tinuva99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    This seems to be a fairly common sentiment. I wonder how well a stone would sell if it left you playing all the way up to 16, then auto leveled you from 16-20? (While working Bigby style - meaning no "undocumented bonus")
    They would sell thousands. These 4 levels are the reason most people stop playing. If I could buy a stone for 30$ to go from 16-20, I'd buy one every TR.
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  4. #64
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinuva99 View Post
    They would sell thousands. These 4 levels are the reason most people stop playing. If I could buy a stone for 30$ to go from 16-20, I'd buy one every TR.
    I would gladly pay $30 for a 18-20 stone alone. This may change after the XP rebalance.
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  5. #65
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    This seems to be a fairly common sentiment. I wonder how well a stone would sell if it left you playing all the way up to 16, then auto leveled you from 16-20? (While working Bigby style - meaning no "undocumented bonus")
    They'd sell like crazy, probably crash the ddo store from it seeming to be a ddos attack from so many people trying to buy them. =P

  6. #66
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinuva99 View Post
    If I could buy a stone for 30$ to go from 16-20, I'd buy one every TR.
    Funny thing is, I've decided that paying for this is a no-go, and I'm holding my breath they somehow manage to do the XP rebalance without breaking a ton of stuff or doing something feather-of-sunnish that will outweigh the good with bad.

    Optimism, yeah.
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    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  7. #67
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I am not saying that this is bait/switch. This goes along with shady practices. Why not tell people that it was changed? Did they think it would hurt sales if they told the truth?
    This just falls into line with other things. They put shears on sell in the store, and the very next week they were removed from the store? Did they just figure out what was going on, or were they trying to fleece the community before they removed them? Not bait and switch, but very shady.
    They were removed because people were exploiting them.

    No bait and switch, no shady deal - at least from Turbine.

    Players found a way to exploit them to the Nine Hells. THAT is why they were removed. THAT is why we cannot have nice things.

    Your tinfoil hat is impeding proper brain function.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

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  8. #68
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    They were removed because people were exploiting them.

    No bait and switch, no shady deal - at least from Turbine.

    Players found a way to exploit them to the Nine Hells. THAT is why they were removed. THAT is why we cannot have nice things.

    Your tinfoil hat is impeding proper brain function.
    People had been exploiting this thing since Motu came out. It is just funny that they put them on sale the week before they pulled them from the shelves. Do you honestly think Turbine did not know this was going on? If so I got a bridge to sell ya.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdbd3rd View Post


    On-Topic: My understanding from the early release of Bigby's was that it didn't specify that XP boosts would not be working with these Stones. Given that the XP boosts on Otto stones have been a common topic in MANY forum threads, it's well known to the Powers that the playerbase expected such. (Regardless of WAI or not)

    As such, it would have been proper to specify in the initial marketing launch that no XP boosts would be applying to these new stones. Those who bought the stones before the official word came out about this have a right to be upset - and should have the option for the evil "refund".

    /.02
    Exactly.

    Ethical business should be the standard, not the exception. The way Turbine handled this was a bit shady.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley_Nicholas View Post
    Bigby's Box does absolutely nothing for 16-20, so it does not increase my enjoyment and I won't be buying any. It's as simple as that.
    That's a very shortsighted viewpoint. You know, it's possible to do quests without bravery bonus. With elite first time +80% and greater tome +50% and the usual bonus stuff, doing lvl 9 quests elite with -50% base is still quite nice xp. Arriving at lvl 15 you got all a lot of nice quests left undone. Much easier to reach 20 that way.

  11. #71
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    People had been exploiting this thing since Motu came out. It is just funny that they put them on sale the week before they pulled them from the shelves. Do you honestly think Turbine did not know this was going on? If so I got a bridge to sell ya.
    They only know about it if we tell them about it.

    How many bug reports stating the exploit did YOU put in on them?

    The same amount that everyone was abusing the Shears were.



    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
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  12. #72
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    They were removed because people were exploiting them.

    No bait and switch, no shady deal - at least from Turbine.

    Players found a way to exploit them to the Nine Hells. THAT is why they were removed. THAT is why we cannot have nice things.
    Do you think it is reasonable for me to take off my voice, wait for my xp shrine to run out, wait for my xp potion to run out, and somehow stop my vip bonus before using an xp stone?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    They only know about it if we tell them about it.

    How many bug reports stating the exploit did YOU put in on them?

    The same amount that everyone was abusing the Shears were.


    Your funny

    I put in one on Lama, so did a half dozen other people I know. Several others claim to have and I see no reason to dispute their claim. They knew of the bugsploite before they sent it live.

    After going live, I and several others reported it was still in effect, before they were put on sale. It wasn't until (perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not) videos on YouTube started showing up such as the "This is what your end-game dps should look like" featuring the 'sploite that they were finally pulled.

    So yes, Turbine sold them knowing full well what was happening with them... And much like the leveling stone, I dare say counting on it.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Do you think it is reasonable for me to take off my voice, wait for my xp shrine to run out, wait for my xp potion to run out, and somehow stop my vip bonus before using an xp stone?
    Since all of those things (except possibly the shrine & VIP bonus) specifically grant a bonus to quest xp, they simply shouldn't have effected the stone, so there was no need for a wait on your part
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  15. #75
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Your funny

    I put in one on Lama, so did a half dozen other people I know. Several others claim to have and I see no reason to dispute their claim. They knew of the bugsploite before they sent it live.

    After going live, I and several others reported it was still in effect, before they were put on sale. It wasn't until (perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not) videos on YouTube started showing up such as the "This is what your end-game dps should look like" featuring the 'sploite that they were finally pulled.

    So yes, Turbine sold them knowing full well what was happening with them... And much like the leveling stone, I dare say counting on it.
    Exactly.

    You can check my account; I never bought or used a shear, EVER.

    P.S. Please do not use facts about YouTube. It makes people look bad when they try and defend Turbine.
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  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagantor View Post
    That's a very shortsighted viewpoint. You know, it's possible to do quests without bravery bonus. With elite first time +80% and greater tome +50% and the usual bonus stuff, doing lvl 9 quests elite with -50% base is still quite nice xp. Arriving at lvl 15 you got all a lot of nice quests left undone. Much easier to reach 20 that way.
    Interesting. I actually hadn't thought of doing that. I suppose that would be worth considering - I appreciate you pointing that out. However, the condescending tone you used to convey this information is not appreciated in the slightest.

    I still don't like the value of what you get from a Bigby's as compared to an Otto's, but at least that puts it in a marginally better light. The need to repeat quests and/or run crappy XP quests isn't as severe as I had originally thought. However, the amount of XP needed to level up remains unchanged. The exponential increase is still there, completely unmitigated by Bigby's.
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  17. #77
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Since all of those things (except possibly the shrine & VIP bonus) specifically grant a bonus to quest xp, they simply shouldn't have effected the stone, so there was no need for a wait on your part
    This is how I see it. I've paid good money to use these boxes now, in a game environment I like. I don't want to have to wait till after the enhancement pass to use the 8-16 stones I've purchased.

    I also paid with real money for my vip bonus, my learning tomes, and my xp potions.

    I filed my bug report and they continued to sell the boxes with the same stones with the same functionality.

    I don't like to be called an exploiter for using a product that has been sold multiple times since my initial bug report, with the same functionality as the free trial version we were all given. Especially when the options almost boil down to : Don't use what you've purchased, if you do, you're a dirty exploiter.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    This is how I see it. I've paid good money to use these boxes now, in a game environment I like. I don't want to have to wait till after the enhancement pass to use the 8-16 stones I've purchased.

    I also paid with real money for my vip bonus, my learning tomes, and my xp potions.

    I filed my bug report and they continued to sell the boxes with the same stones with the same functionality.

    I don't like to be called an exploiter for using a product that has been sold multiple times since my initial bug report, with the same functionality as the free trial version we were all given. Especially when the options almost boil down to : Don't use what you've purchased, if you do, you're a dirty exploiter.
    Who ever said anything about needing to wait until the pass to use the stones? Who ever called you such names for using them? Certainly not me.

    I've never waggled my finger or made derogatory comments about anyone who enjoyed the benefits of getting quest based xp benefits in the non-quest environment of standing at a trainer leveling up.

    What I have said, is that I find it perplexing so many people seem to think that was exactly how it was supposed to work, and that they're all surprised that Turbine changed the stones to only do what they said and nothing more. There's nothing derogatory in that.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley_Nicholas View Post
    Interesting. I actually hadn't thought of doing that. I suppose that would be worth considering - I appreciate you pointing that out. However, the condescending tone you used to convey this information is not appreciated in the slightest.
    Yes, the tone got a bit harsh. But that's a result of reading lots of very angry posts, often including not completely true "facts from experienced players viewpoint". Your post was simply the latest with a good line to quote, annoyance a result of many posts in the thread together. Nothing personal intended and yes, a cup of coffee or a funny video clip to relax before posting would have changed the wording.

    Making the lower power of the new stone obvious is good and yes, I'd also consider a 15-20 stone or even 18-20 a good idea. Not everyone likes TR zerg runs and giving the most determined a better option will make the LFM approach to leveling more usefull to the others. Even on my TR with uber gear I'm not always happy if someone using powers not intended for the level range (you can probably guess what I mean) rushes ahead blowing everything out. Killing stuff myself with good equipment gathered over lifes is fun as well. Others don't care about heroics anymore, just the past life or getting out of a build they don't want to continue playing.

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