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  1. #1
    Community Member Standal's Avatar
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    Default Why are there no class trees?

    I transferred my Jug over to Lamma to see what the new enhancement pass was like. Although I think the new version is better, I still don't see any class trees. I saw a WF tree, I saw a Battle Engineer tree, etc. I did not see an Arti tree, a Pally tree, or a Monk tree.

    The enhancement pass would be a lot better if Turbine added class trees and didn't pretend that PRE trees were class trees. All fighters/rogues should be able to take haste boost. All barbs and artis should get damage boost.

    What I wanted from the enhancement pass was a full set of 6/12/18 PREs for all classes. That's obviously not happening. What I want now is for turbine to group the enhancements that aren't prereqs for a current tree into a class tree. Any points spent in this tree count towards any PRE tree you choose.

  2. #2
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    make sure you scroll to the right on the trees, there are 6 but they don't all show and at least for my multi-class build I noticed that they seem to skip trees and put the other trees on the end.

    If you want them to be closer to the left most trees you will need to clear them from the end so you can move them to a different tree location.

    Personally I wish they wouldn't pre-fill the trees and let us decide the position and order initially.

    Oops reading comprehension fail...

    I actually disagree with having a "Class" tree for holding generic abilities. I do agree that common skills that would be utilized by any of a specific class should be low enough on the tree to allow for selection. This is needed to regardless of Multi-class or Pure builds.
    Last edited by Enoach; 07-04-2013 at 02:52 PM.

  3. #3
    Community Member Cleanincubus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standal View Post
    I transferred my Jug over to Lamma to see what the new enhancement pass was like. Although I think the new version is better, I still don't see any class trees. I saw a WF tree, I saw a Battle Engineer tree, etc. I did not see an Arti tree, a Pally tree, or a Monk tree.

    The enhancement pass would be a lot better if Turbine added class trees and didn't pretend that PRE trees were class trees. All fighters/rogues should be able to take haste boost. All barbs and artis should get damage boost.

    What I wanted from the enhancement pass was a full set of 6/12/18 PREs for all classes. That's obviously not happening. What I want now is for turbine to group the enhancements that aren't prereqs for a current tree into a class tree. Any points spent in this tree count towards any PRE tree you choose.
    I completely agree, and have stated so in every Survey I've done, as well in the discussion thread for the first preview. I have no idea why they chose to do it the way they have. Forcing players into Prestige classes, to me, seems to be the opposite intent of updating the Enhancement system, where the goal is to be more customizable and flexible. Have a larger general Class Tree, and then smaller Prestige Trees.

    The only things I can think of, as to why they did it this way was either:

    A) They felt the Prestige Trees themselves didn't contain enough Enhancements to choose one over the other, and needed to be "fluffed up" a bit.
    B) They felt it was too much work for them to do, logistically. "Does a player have to spend so many AP or be a certain level to unlock the Prestige Tree? Should we "unlock" the Prestige Tree sooner for players by having them just start with them at the level 1? If we "unlock" them at certain levels or certain AP spent, is it just in the particular class or general Character level/total AP spent? Etc."

    I can understand either reasoning, but don't agree with either. If the Enhancements in a Prestige Tree are worthwhile, then they need no fluffing. Even an increase in AP costs for Enhancements in a Prestige Tree (within reason) would be acceptable IMHO. Sure it's stop some from multiclassing in multiple Prestige Trees, but I come from an AD&D 2nd Edition, so I'm personally willing to deal with some disadvantages when it comes to multiclassing (though I'm sure others are not, and respect that). For the other reasoning that I can think of, very simply, the logistics should be figured out before released.

  4. #4
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    I have to completely agree that the Devs should have focused on Class Trees and less on Prestige Trees.

    I can see the original appeal for the Prestige Trees in that players would be able to gain more from multiple Prestige classes of the same class by choosing the Core Abilities. However, the Core Abilities for the Prestige Classes are for the most part very weak and a majority of the power from the Prestige classes have been moved out of the Core Abilities.

    It really would have been better just to have Class Trees with the Core Abilities being the Prestige Class that players had to select. It probably would have cleaned up the trees a lot better and less confusing than both the current and future versions of the Enhancements. Also, if this was done, it'd be more inline with how build characters are now.

    With weak Core Abilities and general class enhancements spread across the various trees, just having a single tree for each class with players choosing the Prestige Class via a selectable Core Abilities would have better in my opinion.

  5. #5
    Community Member azrael4h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    I have to completely agree that the Devs should have focused on Class Trees and less on Prestige Trees.

    I can see the original appeal for the Prestige Trees in that players would be able to gain more from multiple Prestige classes of the same class by choosing the Core Abilities. However, the Core Abilities for the Prestige Classes are for the most part very weak and a majority of the power from the Prestige classes have been moved out of the Core Abilities.

    It really would have been better just to have Class Trees with the Core Abilities being the Prestige Class that players had to select. It probably would have cleaned up the trees a lot better and less confusing than both the current and future versions of the Enhancements. Also, if this was done, it'd be more inline with how build characters are now.

    With weak Core Abilities and general class enhancements spread across the various trees, just having a single tree for each class with players choosing the Prestige Class via a selectable Core Abilities would have better in my opinion.
    This was suggested, repeatedly, during the original Mad Floyd/Let's Talk: Enhancements thread. It was repeatedly ignored. This is why there is a lack of enthusiasm about the whole Enhancement Pass going one, to the point that it's being referred to as DDO:NGE.
    It was the night before Hogswatch....

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  6. #6
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    The design is sort of silly now. You cannot really call them prestiges anymore since they have no prereqs and people will be dipping into several. They are basically class trees with some prestige stuff sprinkled in.
    Join Date: Nov 2009

  7. #7
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleanincubus View Post
    I completely agree, and have stated so in every Survey I've done, as well in the discussion thread for the first preview. I have no idea why they chose to do it the way they have. Forcing players into Prestige classes, to me, seems to be the opposite intent of updating the Enhancement system, where the goal is to be more customizable and flexible. Have a larger general Class Tree, and then smaller Prestige Trees.
    +1.

    We need class trees.

    And would be easier to add new prestige class if there are class trees. Turbine would save work (and problems) in the future.
    Last edited by Iriale; 07-08-2013 at 04:30 AM.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  8. #8
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    Just want to add my agreement that class trees would have been a much better way to do this and I also mentioned that in all my feedback. Wish there was a clear outline of what devs wanted rather than saying they are gathering feedback then the 2nd pass it's virtually identical. Going from 3 to 6 max trees is not much progress. If they at least told us ahead of time which parts of the design were set in stone I could stop bothering them. All of my feedback thus far has basically been "this entire system is wrong, we need class trees".

    Many people said this a year ago as was mentioned, did the devs not listen to that feedback at all?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakharov View Post
    Many people said this a year ago as was mentioned, did the devs not listen to that feedback at all?
    They quite literally ignored all of it. The one, core, overriding, unanimous player feedback to that thread a year ago was the 3 trees is too limiting. So what did they unveil? A 3-tree system.

    Only after an avalanche of "3 trees is too limiting" in response to alpha did they expand it to 6 trees. Thus the 3-tree limit is clearly not a non-negotiable core principle of the enhancement pass.

    So if the 3-tree is negotiable -- which obviously it is since it's now 6 trees -- then the only possible conclusion is that they completely ignored last year's thread. As in, paid no attention to the player feedback in it whatsoever. Nothing.

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