Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 147
  1. #61
    Founder
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I think I'd like to see a whole new mechanic, not just a new dialog option from Kruz. Like maybe go into the Hall of Heroes (or whatever) and talk to some oracle or somesuch that lets you reroll the following:
    <lots of good ideas>
    This of course would be the best recourse for both Turbine and the players. The problem is that there isn't time to develop it.

    What should have happened is when they came up with the Enhancement Pass (many months ago) they should have also thought about how they were going to let players "reset" their characters. I'm assuming they actually did, but given what the "trees" look like they probably thought "we'll just reset the Enhancements, just like the MMOs where we saw these cool trees" and that was that. Either they didn't think about how much more complex the character creation process was in DDO or it wasn't a priority to give players a character reset process that was more relevant to DDO.

    Whatever actually occurred those months ago when they first thought up the Enhancement Pass, that was the time to begin to develop a truly relevant reset process. What we are left with now are the choices we already have - maybe tweaked a bit if that can be done without breaking them.

    A LR equal to the current number of levels of the character - or something like that - would probably be the best bet of the current choices. The problem is that LR is already broken for characters with 3 classes or something (I don't know the exact details). Unless they can both fix it and tweak it for the true number of levels needed by release time I don't see it as an option. A straight LR is certainly not "fair".

    So the other option is TR. But you can't simply give players a straight TR - its not fair to force someone who might only have 1 character or 1 high level character to take that character back to low levels for who knows how long. That is why the Otto's stone is suggested (rather than a Bigby's which will not take a character high enough for people who currently have characters in Epic).

    Yes, some characters will not need it and it will cost Turbine some sales, but it is the most fair of the options available.

  2. #62
    Community Member grausherra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    Yes, some characters will not need it and it will cost Turbine some sales, but it is the most fair of the options available.
    You can quote me on this; 'Fair' is of much less concern than sales.

  3. #63
    Founder
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grausherra View Post
    You can quote me on this; 'Fair' is of much less concern than sales.
    Oh I realize this as well as the fact that a straight LR is probably what we will end up with. All we can do is express our opinion and hope for the best. Ultimately is it probably some bean counter at Turbine who will decide what will be done. Its unfortunate that most developers at Turbine don't seem to play the game the way most players do - I certainly have no hope that the bean counters do.

    I think its funny - I wonder how many players will be lost over this fiasco that was envisioned to make the game better. I haven't seen any advertising to bring in new faces to replace the old.

    Of course advertising costs money, and they could have simply kept the players they had...

  4. #64
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    519

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grausherra View Post
    You can quote me on this; 'Fair' is of much less concern than sales.
    Long term, in this case, fair will mean more sales.

    If they handle this correctly, it will please many more players, who will then keep playing and spending.

    If they handle this badly, I'm not shelling out money to fix broken toons, and I'm pretty laid-back concerning such things, so the people who would just directly leave over it = lost sales. Bad publicity = lost sales.

    Give me a straight, no mod LR? Something I can get with pocket change from the store? No. Not worth it for any of my alts; and only worth it for my main if Racial PrEs are in place.

    Let me change race, classes, and stats? That's ideal, but I don't expect it. However, I'll hold out hope.

    Let me at least change all my classes? Not ideal, but feasible, and I'd be pretty happy with it.
    Thelanis - Dragons of the Shire
    Naeryna (Sun Elf 24 FvS Evoker) // Dianocia (Drow 11 Buckler o' Swashes) // Valissia (Elf 22 Shiradi Druid)
    Nae haz a story. Go read it.

  5. #65
    Community Member grausherra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    Ultimately is it probably some bean counter at Turbine who will decide what will be done. Its unfortunate that most developers at Turbine don't seem to play the game the way most players do - I certainly have no hope that the bean counters do.
    QuartermasterX's comment on the new boxes being so much better than the last, and then his latter apology that he had thought that they really would be, has lead me to believe currently that the devs probably do want what is best for us, but are probably completely impotent when it comes to making decisions like this.

    Beancounters will screw over the players, not the devs. A few graphs/charts on projected sales of Hearts from the DDO store due to these changes and we'll be lucky if we even get a free LR.

  6. #66
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We plan to include a lesser reincarnation, somewhat similar to when Menace of the Underdark was released, or better.

    Exact details are still being determined.
    I could live with all the needless changes, I could even live with the 30 some odd outright nerfs in the pass, but that AP spent in tree, with it's self enforcing need to stuff the PrE's with core class enhacements that don't belong, is a deal breaker right now. A one time 20 level LR for each character is the right thing to do from a customer support standpoint.

    Summery from a post in a duplicate thread on this subject. Varg thanks for communicating with us bro.

  7. #67
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    519

    Default

    A suggestion:

    Reset every character; we log in, and there's a "reincarnate" button available. The reincarnation that then occurs resets our XP to current levels, but lets us totally reset our character from the ground up.

    Probably impossible, but doing every character across the board the same way has to be simpler than accounting for a thousand specific scenarios.
    Thelanis - Dragons of the Shire
    Naeryna (Sun Elf 24 FvS Evoker) // Dianocia (Drow 11 Buckler o' Swashes) // Valissia (Elf 22 Shiradi Druid)
    Nae haz a story. Go read it.

  8. #68
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dlsidhe View Post
    Long term, in this case, fair will mean more sales.

    If they handle this correctly, it will please many more players, who will then keep playing and spending.

    If they handle this badly, I'm not shelling out money to fix broken toons, and I'm pretty laid-back concerning such things, so the people who would just directly leave over it = lost sales. Bad publicity = lost sales.

    Give me a straight, no mod LR? Something I can get with pocket change from the store? No. Not worth it for any of my alts; and only worth it for my main if Racial PrEs are in place.

    Let me change race, classes, and stats? That's ideal, but I don't expect it. However, I'll hold out hope.

    Let me at least change all my classes? Not ideal, but feasible, and I'd be pretty happy with it.
    This is pretty much how I feel about it, I am a free spender, I love the game, I am not incapable of dealing with nerfs (I support them sometimes see the TWF nerf, I oppose them sometimes (see the Intim nerf). Make me feel put upon or make me feel like running my characters was pointless, or take the fun out of my character (like Making my poor poor Sonic nuking Bard go from 25% crit chance to 12% or 16% and 291 spell power to 120-ish) and I contemplate leaving... I did exactly that over the Intim change for a year, only by fluke of free time and between other games did I get back into DDO.

  9. #69
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,935

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dlsidhe View Post
    A suggestion:

    Reset every character; we log in, and there's a "reincarnate" button available. The reincarnation that then occurs resets our XP to current levels, but lets us totally reset our character from the ground up.

    Probably impossible, but doing every character across the board the same way has to be simpler than accounting for a thousand specific scenarios.
    This.
    /signed

  10. #70
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,935

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    How about just 2000 free TP per character that existed before, say, the day Lamannia closed?

    That way we can buy whatever hearts, boxes, or XP boosts we need to redo our characters for the EP?
    Uhhh... 2000AP won't even begin to help us alto-holics. I have 29 toons. That's less than 69AP to fix each one.

  11. #71
    Community Member debo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    985

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We plan to include a lesser reincarnation, somewhat similar to when Menace of the Underdark was released, or better.

    Exact details are still being determined.
    I've been really concerned lately when a dev uses the words "better" From past experiences from other dev's using that word it shows how out of touch they are with the actual game and what the players consider better.

    Prove us wrong that your better is actually better.

  12. #72

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dlsidhe View Post
    A suggestion:

    Reset every character; we log in, and there's a "reincarnate" button available. The reincarnation that then occurs resets our XP to current levels, but lets us totally reset our character from the ground up.

    Probably impossible, but doing every character across the board the same way has to be simpler than accounting for a thousand specific scenarios.
    I really like the core of this idea. Here's how I see it:

    Every existing character on live gets some kind of clickable cake-like thing in their inventory the next time you log in. These cakes are only usable for 1 month. When you eat the cake, it asks if you want to full reincarnate (or whatever) and if you say yes, it starts like a tr. (Next time you click that alt on the char select screen you hit the special button, type in your name, and then the full reincarnation begins.)

    The full reincarnation allows you to go through the character creation changing race, alignment, gender, whatever; put no limitations in order to reduce development time. Once you finish crafting the level 1 character and enter the game world you have whatever xp you had before reincarnation, and are free to go to whatever trainers you like and take (or hold) whatever levels you please.

    Done and done, with minimal development time. Admittedly more development time than just re-crediting our freebie with Kruz, but still.

    NOTE TO DEVS: Consider my challenge farmer monk, who stays level 15 forever to farm mats. Challenge farming got him to the xp cap of 1 shy of level 17, then the monster manual xp got him a couple thousand more. So I'm 15 holding 17, and I really, really want to stay 15. LR forces you to take any banked levels, meaning any kind of LR would necessitate me leveling him to 20, tring, and getting him back to 15 for no reason whatsoever.

  13. #73
    Community Member debo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    985

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I really like the core of this idea. Here's how I see it:

    Every existing character on live gets some kind of clickable cake-like thing in their inventory the next time you log in. These cakes are only usable for 1 month. When you eat the cake, it asks if you want to full reincarnate (or whatever) and if you say yes, it starts like a tr. (Next time you click that alt on the char select screen you hit the special button, type in your name, and then the full reincarnation begins.)

    The full reincarnation allows you to go through the character creation changing race, alignment, gender, whatever; put no limitations in order to reduce development time. Once you finish crafting the level 1 character and enter the game world you have whatever xp you had before reincarnation, and are free to go to whatever trainers you like and take (or hold) whatever levels you please.

    Done and done, with minimal development time. Admittedly more development time than just re-crediting our freebie with Kruz, but still.

    NOTE TO DEVS: Consider my challenge farmer monk, who stays level 15 forever to farm mats. Challenge farming got him to the xp cap of 1 shy of level 17, then the monster manual xp got him a couple thousand more. So I'm 15 holding 17, and I really, really want to stay 15. LR forces you to take any banked levels, meaning any kind of LR would necessitate me leveling him to 20, tring, and getting him back to 15 for no reason whatsoever.
    That's like saying when they had the increased crit range for barbs all those years ago and people refused to change there enhancements because if they did, they would lose that enhancement when it was removed. We all suffer the same or not at all, can't be no middle ground.

  14. #74
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    519

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by debo View Post
    That's like saying when they had the increased crit range for barbs all those years ago and people refused to change there enhancements because if they did, they would lose that enhancement when it was removed. We all suffer the same or not at all, can't be no middle ground.
    Agreed.

    My other thought would be to give all existing characters a trinket/augment that would only function for, say, three weeks that would grant ridiculous heroic XP bonuses (like 1000%), and also one (1) True Heart o' Wood. In three weeks anyone can burn through to 20, TR, and get part of the way through another life with 1000% XP. That makes doing it completely optional.
    Thelanis - Dragons of the Shire
    Naeryna (Sun Elf 24 FvS Evoker) // Dianocia (Drow 11 Buckler o' Swashes) // Valissia (Elf 22 Shiradi Druid)
    Nae haz a story. Go read it.

  15. #75
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Middlonowhere, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    3,065

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    There will be some news on this Soon.

    <<nested quote re: ranger devotion>>

    Wait for it.
    Happy ranger devotion news soon is happy.

    I've attempted 3 different reworks to my 18rng/1ftr/1rog unbongwah Tempest Trapmonkey on Lam and have yet to figure out a way to retain any semblance of his current playstyle/dps/healing. I have NO idea what it will take to make him, my main, feel like the toon I've spent 2+ years getting to know. So, the more you can do to mitigate the damage (read: devotion, and/or 20LR), the better.

  16. #76
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    17,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dlsidhe View Post
    Agreed.

    My other thought would be to give all existing characters a trinket/augment that would only function for, say, three weeks that would grant ridiculous heroic XP bonuses (like 1000%), and also one (1) True Heart o' Wood. In three weeks anyone can burn through to 20, TR, and get part of the way through another life with 1000% XP. That makes doing it completely optional.
    Yeah, but the problem is that the powergamers would burn through 15-25 lives in those 3 weeks with that kind of bonus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  17. #77
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,579

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We plan to include a lesser reincarnation, somewhat similar to when Menace of the Underdark was released, or better.

    Exact details are still being determined.
    Pardon the cynicism, but given that Bigby's was also supposed to be "better" this seems more like a warning than a reassurance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Iconic characters unfortunately will not be able to reincarnate with Update 19, though any kind of reincarnation gift would still be given to those characters and usable when we implement Iconic reincarnation.
    So any Iconic based builds that do get hosed by the pass are sol until some unspecified time in the future?

    Not cool man, not cool.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  18. #78
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Yeah, but the problem is that the powergamers would burn through 15-25 lives in those 3 weeks with that kind of bonus.
    I fail to see how that's a problem.

  19. #79
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grausherra View Post
    Get ready for the finger then; selling more hearts in the store is obviously more important than not screwing over players, or he'd never have even mentioned that just a free LR was even a possibility they were considering.

    Good thing there is an easy way to fix broken characters, just buy from the store! I personally love getting my wallet milked like a dairy cow, it's why I play this game!
    I wish they would milk something *else* besides the wallet.

  20. #80
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    519

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Yeah, but the problem is that the powergamers would burn through 15-25 lives in those 3 weeks with that kind of bonus.
    Consider it a bonus for being a loyal player.

    Seriously, I'm not a powergamer, and I fail to see how it's a problem. I'd use it to level alts and my couple 3rd life TRs.
    Thelanis - Dragons of the Shire
    Naeryna (Sun Elf 24 FvS Evoker) // Dianocia (Drow 11 Buckler o' Swashes) // Valissia (Elf 22 Shiradi Druid)
    Nae haz a story. Go read it.

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload