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  1. #121
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    Default Thank you Ironclans, and a note to the Devs....

    Excellent post Ironclans, although I never reply to forum posts, I felt compelled to after reading this. It just plain appears that Turbine is just not listening to rank and file players, but sycophants. I have spoken to many peeps on Gland about the upcoming changes - and they generally are NOT happy.

    I have played this game for a long time, (this is my second newer account) and always felt that the Devs were too arrogant in their opinions of their "fixes", and not very creative in there "fixes." I play this game because I enjoy it. I also pay for the game which pays your salary. Get it Devs? Your "fixes" in the past have sucked the enjoyment and entertainment right out of classes that I used to like to play. You almost lost this game at one point, and you don't seem to have learned from your mistakes. Maybe its time for players to just put this game out of its misery, and leave. I will wait and see, but I personally am growing a little tired of the "screw the player" attitude to which you so arrogantly adhere. This has cost you millions of dollars in lost subscriptions, and saddled this game with a not-so-positive reputation amongst the gaming magazine writers. I miss the hundreds of people I met over the years that quit - not necessarily because of the nerfs - but because they felt that you didn't care about what the players wanted.

    Can you tell me how much more revenue you would have if you were able to have saved just 3% of the people who have quit this game? As I said before I do enjoy the game, admittedly more because I have fun with the PLAYERS that I play with - not because I enjoy your nerfs.

    Who wants to guess how long it will be before they strike my post?

  2. #122
    Community Member Philibusta's Avatar
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    I got dibs on 8:05 am Eastern Time, 7/5!

    um......

    unless they take a 4-day holiday. then....

    8:05 am Eastern Time, 7/8!
    All that is wrong with DDO, life, taxes, poltics, religion, music, fast food, education, the criminal justice system, the weather, society, the universe, and previously-discontinued-but-now-on-their-way-back snack cakes, is all the fault of Wizards of the Coast. I know this because Fred told me so, and Mind Flayers are smart.

  3. #123
    Community Member Jeromio's Avatar
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    I think we need a new thread called "The complete list of advantages in the enhancement pass thread" so that we can compare the negative mentioned in this thread against the positive with the ENH pass.
    Isn't there some ENH pass fanboi that could start such a thread?

    Personally, I've only tested favoured souls on LL, and the only advantage compared to live that I've seen, is that the new UI is a bit more user friendly.
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  4. #124
    Community Member Danemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeromio View Post
    I think we need a new thread called "The complete list of advantages in the enhancement pass thread" so that we can compare the negative mentioned in this thread against the positive with the ENH pass.
    Isn't there some ENH pass fanboi that could start such a thread?

    Personally, I've only tested favoured souls on LL, and the only advantage compared to live that I've seen, is that the new UI is a bit more user friendly.
    I would absolutely love to, but I'm not a min/maxer so I'm ill-suited to comparing the current system to the new one.
    Though I suppose we could start with the obvious, like new Prestiges and spell-like abilities for more than just Sorc/Wiz. Hmm...

  5. #125
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    Void Strike 3 is gone completely (as is 1 and 2 but they don't really matter).

  6. #126
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    I was just thinking how there's no thread debunking the complaints or speaking of the positives of the enhancement Pass. I'm glad someone did. Good show.
    Actually that post amounts to "I don't mind these nerfs" not caring is not the same as not a nerf. Also "they added this unrelated thing that I do like" doesn't mean a nerf isn't a nerf. "it only costs a little more" is also not proof of something not being a nerf, "Your math is wrong because I found a couple combinations where it doesn't apply" likewise; and last but not least "screw anyone who likes that" also does not make a nerf, no longer a nerf.

    It is rather startling the lengths some people will go to to try and minimize or sugar coat what is already one of the largest lists of nerfs I can recall.

    My experience with MMO's is that I have left all of the ones I played for longer than a trial period mostly due to nerfs that invalidated and destroyed years of characters I enjoyed playing and building. My experience also is supported by MMO history; I was there for the Star Wars Galaxies "New Game Enhancements" people left in droves. DDO is half the MMO that SWG's was in terms of player base (at least if guesstimates of 150k subs around here are accurate). It's also not as much chachet as a star wars branded game has. Now this pass is not the same degree of change as the NGE was, but it doesn't need to be, DDO is on worse footing, and has a fragile and easily broken grouping system that spreads everyone out and dices them up into the smallest possible BB at level +2 ranges, which leads to empty looking LFM panel which sends more people packing when they see nothing to do. and is already making the game feel dead during off peak hours.

    Their are nice things in the enhancement pass, but it is filled with things people should want to know about that will change their characters and playstyles, and might even be mitigated if they find out about it BEFORE they splash 6 levels to get something that goes away or is minimized two months from now. There are also not nice things in the pass, and honestly by in large it seems to be liberally sprinkled with "6, 8 or 10 second stacking on vorpal +trivial amount to damage/spell power, with a eleventy hundred second cooldown" style abilities. MMO devs love to hand out the triffling and the trivial and pretend it's something cool and heroic and fun, I don't agree.

    The angst this list has generated for trying to inform people of things they're losing is eye opening. If you want to collect all the positives in a list go ahead
    Last edited by Ironclans_evil_twin; 07-05-2013 at 02:30 PM.

  7. #127
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post
    Void Strike 3 is gone completely (as is 1 and 2 but they don't really matter).
    I used 1 and 2 to get access to the Curse the Void (?) finisher. I am going to miss them and the new Void IV is all the way at the top of the tree. My Shintao's are left in an identity crisis right now.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

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  8. #128
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Iron I want to thank you for making some of the corrections you have on the opening post.


    Item 27
    For Defender Paladins the Sacred Defense gives a Base 50% with an Enhancement that adds 25/50/75 % Called Insightful Defense. It brings the Threat % up to 125% of the 150% available on Live. It is a loss but it is not the 75% loss. It's drawback is that unlike live it does not require a shield to get the bonus. But to get the +CON/+STR/+HP of the Defense you have to take this enhancement.

    PRR loss of +20 For shield I agree with - it is gone in the Beta. That however is the only PrE related PRR loss I'm seeing


    Items that I see as not having the whole picture on.

    Item 6.
    Paladins devotion line not in new enhancements.

    Paladins have been Feat and Enhancement starved for a very long time. Spending 10 AP for 80 Devotion has a high opportunity cost. I know that for me and many Paladins I have talked to concerning enhancements found it difficult to justify more than 3 AP towards Devotion for 40 Spell Power. Removing these enhancements and adding the +1 Positive Spell Power to each Point Spent in the Defender Line does benefit Defender Paladins much more than their KotC counter parts. However, in my testing without adding any points to the Heal Skill, and with a modest 20 Wisdom (with gear/buffs) and a +15 Heal item (happened to also be 20% healing amp) I had 27 Positive Heal Power. That is only 13 less than the 40 I have on Live. 13 points in Defender makes it equal.

    Now if you spent the 10 APs to get the 80 Spell Power, you will have to spend in the Defender line to make up for that.

    The Heal skill adding spell power is not a benefit on Live but it is one on the Beta. Based on what I'm seeing they adjusted spell power based on having these skills and gear to raise these skills.


    Item 14
    While those with 4+3+2+1 will lose 2% dodge they do get back up to 3 gear slots which can be used for skill items such as spell power. They did mention that 10% dodge will be a random loot gen.

    I do understand the work that went into gearing all those dodge bonuses - I farmed my chattering ring and searched for and crafted my 2% and 1%.

  9. #129
    Community Member tralfaz81's Avatar
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    Barbarian power rage now only goes to 3 instead of 4. Frenzied Berserker I-III no longer exist. You can still pick frenzy and death frenzy (unaltered) but the other benefits are spread out over the 3 trees.
    "Shut up and die like a wizard"

  10. #130
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    Thank you Ironclans for attempting to make a simple thread detailing what we are losing in the current version of the new Enhancements. I think you would have been better served to use the term "loss/lose" rather than "nerf" since, as you can tell, too many people mistakenly believe that something lost is only a "nerf" if it wasn't "deserved".

    For all the rude people who ignored the OP's request that you stick to the topic of HIS thread, I only hope that you are paid back in spades in all of your threads going forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Item 14
    While those with 4+3+2+1 will lose 2% dodge they do get back up to 3 gear slots which can be used for skill items such as spell power. They did mention that 10% dodge will be a random loot gen.

    I do understand the work that went into gearing all those dodge bonuses - I farmed my chattering ring and searched for and crafted my 2% and 1%.
    I can see why it might seem to those with geared characters (or people who have already been playing long enough that acquiring new loot gen gear is trivial) that the new Dodge mechanic is not a nerf, I will point out that as with any other gear, higher stat levels are also harder to get. Currently I can get 10% Dodge by adding up "lower level" Dodge amounts. How much harder (and at what level) will it be to get a 10% Dodge item? And will they be changing the levels of loot gen Dodge items?

    Side question: does the "doubling" mean that there will no longer be odd-numbered Dodge values?

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    The lack of uproar over nerfs that appear to be going live in the pass tells me that people are distracted or not realizing the full extent of them, or not reading lam forums.

    I would like to also politely suggest that there is a large group of people who simply do not care. I happen to be one of them.


    In a game where the players have become so massively overpowered as compared to the monsters over the past 6-7 years, they pretty much have to cut everyone's dps by 75% to even get me mildly excited.

    How about a thread on the continuing nerfing of all content gamewide the last year? For the most part unreported by Turbine? Hmmmm?

  12. #132
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
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    by multiple people's calculations, the sorc is to lose about 50-90% of its current firepower. the 90% is if the bugs from beta make it to live, in which case the sorc could be abotu 1/10 its current effectiveness...

  13. #133
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    ... I can see why it might seem to those with geared characters (or people who have already been playing long enough that acquiring new loot gen gear is trivial) that the new Dodge mechanic is not a nerf, I will point out that as with any other gear, higher stat levels are also harder to get. Currently I can get 10% Dodge by adding up "lower level" Dodge amounts. How much harder (and at what level) will it be to get a 10% Dodge item? And will they be changing the levels of loot gen Dodge items?

    Side question: does the "doubling" mean that there will no longer be odd-numbered Dodge values?
    But if we take into consideration that the Doubling of the current amounts is part of the plan of consolidating Gear so that the now more useful skills can be added in, then it makes sense on a grander scheme.

    Guess we will have to see if odd number dodge amounts make it.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    Rangers are SIGNIFICANTLY better with the new enhancements. Yes at this point they've lost the devotion line, but even if it stays that way (which we don't know), this pales in comparison to the buffs they are getting. Ranged especially. My arcane archer is drooling over the changes.
    Erm...Are we talking about the same Rangers?

    Here's my problem.

    Meet Varaena my 'lil Pure Ranger AA.

    Here's a screenshot of her Hotbars on Live.

    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...hot00012i.jpg/ (Left it as a link because the forums aren't playing nice and won't just show the image.)

    The way the current Enhancement Pass is looking if things stay as they were during Alpha I'll need another three or four Hotbars and I'll need to adjust my own biology a bit to grow about twenty more fingers in order to use all these abilities that have been made into clickies.

    Archers need to be aware of their own HP, their position, their position in relation to obstacles, their position in relation to mobs, the mobs position in relation to other mobs, the mobs position in relation to obstacles and a few other things I won't bother to list.

    Now my AA Ranger will have to be aware of all this AND will have to keep an eye on short term buffs in order to use the temp SP AND will have to keep an eye on the SP bar since it'll be draining that much faster (I tested it during Alpha and found the temp SP didn't even come close to being enough for decent usage of abilities and my SP plummeted like a lead balloon).

    All this whilst moving.

    And you see this as a buff?
    Last edited by Archangel_666; 07-05-2013 at 10:31 PM.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    by multiple people's calculations, the sorc is to lose about 50-90% of its current firepower. the 90% is if the bugs from beta make it to live, in which case the sorc could be abotu 1/10 its current effectiveness...

    Of course, you must assume they will leave bugs intact for the next 5 years so you are at 10%.

    In a forum where melee players are openly mocked for having made a melee, I think casters could use some nerf bat.

    Massive troll thread.
    Last edited by Seere; 07-05-2013 at 10:43 PM.

  16. #136
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    Turbine has certainly made some interesting choices lately. At this point I'm sorry to say it, but I won't be active here much after this pass comes to light. Fact is, my game plan has basically become to finish out my main's cleric life, burn the stone I've got in the bank on a fvs or rogue life, and then if I have time before the expansion I'll try to level up a wiz life.

    After that, I expect my ddo account will go the way of my old Diablo account. I'll keep it, log on once in a while to see how things are going and run a quest or two for old time's sake.

  17. #137
    Community Member akiraproject24's Avatar
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    Uproars only cause infractions and gives fuel to the fanbois to point out how stupid we are. A lot of the old players rather than uproar (having learned it doesn't change anything) are quitting and going to Neverwinter Online.....which by the way sux too.
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  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    But if we take into consideration that the Doubling of the current amounts is part of the plan of consolidating Gear so that the now more useful skills can be added in, then it makes sense on a grander scheme.

    Guess we will have to see if odd number dodge amounts make it.
    My point is not whether it makes sense but to stress that it is a Nerf (to follow the OP).

  19. #139
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post


    1. Most Dodge items just got a useless affix as only the highest applies and the lower numbers do not stack, to compensate they have doubled all dodge bonuses (4% is now 8%) but this still nerfs a lot of formerly useful gear.
    I think this is a buff, actually. You can get the benefits of dodge by equipping a single item. This is helpful in two ways. Firstly, it makes dodge useful for classes that did not invest in dodge at first. Secondly, it frees up several gear slots for those classes that did invest in dodge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  20. #140
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tralfaz81 View Post
    Barbarian power rage now only goes to 3 instead of 4. Frenzied Berserker I-III no longer exist. You can still pick frenzy and death frenzy (unaltered) but the other benefits are spread out over the 3 trees.
    Well that is gonna suck.

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