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  1. #41
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Hate to rain on your parade but Sword and board might be getting nerfed the worst out of any playstyle. DOS/Stalwart: "When using a shield, you now generate 75% additional threat from all sources and gain 20 physical resistance"

    ^^ Is no longer a thing, so you're only getting the PRR and the threat from the stance, in other words HALF the threat and HALF the PRR that Defender PrE granted you is going away.

    Yes that's right they nerfed us bro... They nerfed S&B... (not to mention you can no longer whip out a Greataxe while in stance to be able to do a little more DPS over the trifling amount we were doing.)

    Reminds me I forget about the +threat in the list *runs off to edit*
    Not only did they nerf you . . . but they gave Kensai's a better option for useful defense. Great system ain't it?

    They nerfed . . . sword and bored . . . of all things . . . to nerf . . .

  2. #42
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Didn't get a chance to recheck this with the second preview but animal form druids get no spwr including no devotion.

  3. #43
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    And despite all these 'nerfs' you will all be here playing U19 day 1.

    Enjoy them.
    You forgot...

    Paying nothing until they give me something worth spending on. I have seen the positivies of U19, and they are no where near as good as all the builds they will destroy. Makes me want to open my wallet, LMFAO
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  4. #44
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    Monk Dance of the water strider no longer exists.

    I'm not sure if I would call that a nerf. LOL

    It rules harbor...

  5. #45
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    You forgot...

    Paying nothing until they give me something worth spending on. I have seen the positivies of U19, and they are no where near as good as all the builds they will destroy. Makes me want to open my wallet, LMFAO
    Everyone keeps saying that; all the builds it will destroy.

    What are all these 'all the builds'?

    Multiclass min/max FOTM builds?

    Out of the eight characters I play, 6 are gaining more then they loose. One I break even on. Last one I have not yet made up my mind on how I will convert to the new system as she is a Bard.

    Enhancements are changing, for everyone. Does not matter if you are spending money or not - only matters if you play. So unless you are no longer going to play, like all of us, we are stuck with it it whatever form it arrives in.

    Instead of being unhappy all the time while I play I have chosen to be happy while I play and make the best of it.

    But to each his/her own and your mileage will vary.

    How many in the nerf thread will be asking on August 19th when the servers will be up? More then any one of them will admit to themselves or others.


    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  6. #46
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Everyone keeps saying that; all the builds it will destroy.

    What are all these 'all the builds'?

    Multiclass min/max FOTM builds?

    Sorcs
    Pallies
    Rangers
    Druids
    Clerics
    FVS
    SD Fighters
    Barbs

    Your fotm builds like the juggernaut have the potential to come out even stronger. Your argument is invalid.

  7. #47
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    You say that, but the number of people who have uninstalled due to the enhancement alpha is likely (no citations, but going by my observation) quite large. Combine with all the other questionable decisions about to happen at once...your statement is false for several of us.

    Personally, I've logged on twice in the past two months before uninstalling...I'd be heavily surprised if I'm the only one that's done similar.
    Hey, I'm sorry to hear of anyone uninstall.

    But if those have uninstalled why are they wasting time posting on something they no longer have any interest in playing anymore? It is not like by uninstalling is going to magically change the revamp. Just makes them sound and look petty, IMO.

    Thankfully we all know that the forum population is less then 5% of the total game population and if 1% of them is going to not play anymore, I say that is their loss.

    They have taken their toys, they have gone home, but they are still complaining about something they no longer have any involvement in. I just don't get it.

    And I mean no disrespect to you Vint, but in effort to understand the mindset, what do you hope to accomplish now that you have uninstalled and are no longer playing, but posting how bad this system is?

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Then you don't have any understanding of game mechanics. Sorry but people that can't add don't get an opinion.
    Just because the current min-maxers aren't min-maxed anymore doesn't mean that its a universal nerf. Many classes ARE getting better. Whatever your current playstyle is may need adjustment...but that's not "game mechanics", that's just YOUR mechanics...

    Try running a Dex-based TWF melee build in the current game, see how well that works out for you in endgame.

  9. #49
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Just because the current min-maxers aren't min-maxed anymore doesn't mean that its a universal nerf. Many classes ARE getting better. Whatever your current playstyle is may need adjustment...but that's not "game mechanics", that's just YOUR mechanics...

    Try running a Dex-based TWF melee build in the current game, see how well that works out for you in endgame.
    Why would someone roll a gimp. BTW it's still a gimp most likely, haven't looked hard at the dex damage changes but there are still more sources and ways to increase str compared to dex so dex damage is still second rate. Math it's hard.

  10. #50
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Loss of elven shield asf. (Yes, I realize that only effects the two or three of us wizards that picked elf over half-elf, drow, or human and sunk in the feats for the survivability aspects, but hey, they said one of the goals was more distinctive character traits, so seems odd indeed they'd remove that.)
    Last edited by Scraap; 07-03-2013 at 05:02 PM.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    The one that baffles me the most is why wizards are gaining so much spell power, and sorcerers are losing so much.
    Baffling isn't it. What wizards want is viable dc's across multiple schools and not walk into a quest knowing that their primary school is useless against the mobs, leaving you completely useless at what you do best; CC.

  12. #52
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Everyone keeps saying that; all the builds it will destroy.

    What are all these 'all the builds'?

    Multiclass min/max FOTM builds?

    Out of the eight characters I play, 6 are gaining more then they loose. One I break even on. Last one I have not yet made up my mind on how I will convert to the new system as she is a Bard.

    Enhancements are changing, for everyone. Does not matter if you are spending money or not - only matters if you play. So unless you are no longer going to play, like all of us, we are stuck with it it whatever form it arrives in.

    Instead of being unhappy all the time while I play I have chosen to be happy while I play and make the best of it.

    But to each his/her own and your mileage will vary.

    How many in the nerf thread will be asking on August 19th when the servers will be up? More then any one of them will admit to themselves or others.

    This is a moot point. Turbine could be making a lot more money if they were not alienating its customers.

    As to the second point, yes, they are going to nerf the flavor builds. I don’t like it, but I can understand it. But, what you fail to see is that they are truly nerfing certain classes beyond what they are now. Clerics are just heal bots now? Spell power is down the toilet? You can play devil’s advocate all you like, but these are the facts.

    This is not a war worth fighting though. Turbine has supreme reign and they can do as they please. If you permit I would like to /tinfoil for a sec.

    Come October, servers will be so slow that they will be offering all servers xp like they are Wayfinder. People that are coming back from school, nwo, or other RL things are going to be pi$$ed when they see that they will have to tr half their toons because they are not what they once were. How many people will turn the computer back to nwo, ESO, or real life to avoid having to regrind what Turbine has torn up?

    P.S. I may be one of those who complain about when the servers are coming back up. I do not hate this game, I just hate seeing what Turbine is doing to it. I use to be able to log on and find a million things to enjoy. Now I find far less and am mindful of what type of bait/switch or cash grab idea that they have.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  13. #53
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    This thread is completely worthless without balancing the pluses AND minuses...

    Remember when we only had 4 enhancements like 6 years ago and Turbine completely redid enhancements (there were massive posts of doom back then too)...

    This thread is exactly as worthless as someone back then posting about the few enhancements that were lost with that change, but nothing about the dozen of NEW abilities that we got...
    I will disagree with this simply on the basis that TIME is the number one thing argued about on these forums when it comes to game mechanics. The time put in to characters nerfed by this will be wasted. When you consider (and I know you have considered this) that players who play this game have posted that adding one minute to a shroud completion is a minute wasted that could have been used to get ahead in the next shroud completion, you understand the orders of magnitude more of a time waste invalidating gear and build options of the past is, even if the plusses do outweigh the minuses.

    A 7 year old MMO should be moving forward rather than making lateral transitions reworking the entirety of how characters are built. How much more content could we have had in the past 2 years or so if people hours spent revamping the enhancement system?
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  14. #54
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    This is a moot point. Turbine could be making a lot more money if they were not alienating its customers.

    As to the second point, yes, they are going to nerf the flavor builds. I don’t like it, but I can understand it. But, what you fail to see is that they are truly nerfing certain classes beyond what they are now. Clerics are just heal bots now? Spell power is down the toilet? You can play devil’s advocate all you like, but these are the facts.

    This is not a war worth fighting though. Turbine has supreme reign and they can do as they please. If you permit I would like to /tinfoil for a sec.

    Come October, servers will be so slow that they will be offering all servers xp like they are Wayfinder. People that are coming back from school, nwo, or other RL things are going to be pi$$ed when they see that they will have to tr half their toons because they are not what they once were. How many people will turn the computer back to nwo, ESO, or real life to avoid having to regrind what Turbine has torn up?

    P.S. I may be one of those who complain about when the servers are coming back up. I do not hate this game, I just hate seeing what Turbine is doing to it. I use to be able to log on and find a million things to enjoy. Now I find far less and am mindful of what type of bait/switch or cash grab idea that they have.
    NW also drops its next expansion in August...right on schedule to compete directly for common market attention, in the same money pool, at nearly the same time.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  15. #55
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    I should load up Lam and raise numerous support tickets to fix my character copy and wake up in the middle off the night Australia time to participate in the dev events but I have become so jaded that I don't care what they'll do. They don't play the game and they are intent leaving their own mark on the game. The changes they are proposing to heroic tr's will be the final nail for me with ddo, I'm just enjoying what I have now on the remaining 10 months of subscription, but once update 20 hits it's byebye.

  16. #56
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyjibo_lol View Post
    I should load up Lam and raise numerous support tickets to fix my character copy and wake up in the middle off the night Australia time to participate in the dev events but I have become so jaded that I don't care what they'll do. They don't play the game and they are intent leaving their own mark on the game. The changes they are proposing to heroic tr's will be the final nail for me with ddo, I'm just enjoying what I have now on the remaining 10 months of subscription, but once update 20 hits it's byebye.
    I'm feeling similarly to this. As I've said and will continue to say, the enhancement pass is not an update, it's a completely new game. All the time, energy, and effort I put in to make workable builds I enjoy playing becomes wasted and mostly useless when the new game starts with the new enhancement system. I feel great sadness and some anger at having the football jerked away once again.

    When the new enhancement system is implemented I'll have to decide whether this game is fun enough to invest extra time and effort to research the kind of builds I've already made under the new system. I know I can't reproduce the builds I have now in the new system. I tried on Lama and failed, with sufficient feelings of anger and frustration to make my future of playing DDO look decidedly not fun.
    There is no free lunch.

  17. #57
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    But if those have uninstalled why are they wasting time posting on something they no longer have any interest in playing anymore? It is not like by uninstalling is going to magically change the revamp. Just makes them sound and look petty, IMO.
    I'm still on the forums and not completely giving up on DDO because I still have hopes for the game that I've played so much the past few years, personally.

    Also, forums are practically a game all their own.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  18. #58
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    I don't know if personal agendas or natural close mindedness have brought us to this point, but this topic has become far more polarizing than it needs to be.

    The people who are against the update use terms like "fanboi" to belittle the viewpoints of those who are pro update. The derogatory term is also being used as a threat for having an opposing viewpoint. "If you don't agree with me, then you are a childlike, unthinking follower ("a fanboi"). Those are the rules. Disagree with me at your own risk..."

    On the other hand, those who are anti update are commonly accused of being relentlessly negative for the sake of being negative ("d000m!"). The idea again being that they don't have reasons or logic behind their beefs, but are simply irrational slaves to their natural predispositions and paranoias.

    With the kind of narrow-minded and dogmatic thinking that some of us display, we should be running for Congress rather than wasting our time posting in here.


    The enhancement update is going to happen. This fact needs to be accepted. Those of you who think that you can convince Turbine to scrap it by posting one sided posts or propaganda in order to sway players into starting a mini revolution need to get in touch with reality. They have spent too much time on the new enhancements, and the old system is not user friendly enough for new players. The new system is happening.

    That being said, the focus needs to be on improving the new system, and the system does, in my opinion, need improving.

    A lot of good points were brought up in the original post of this thread. Things like healing spell power in melee lines, Kensai tactical DCs, toughness hp, and sword and board requirements in defensive stances are, in my opinion, legitimate concerns. I would like to see these and more things change before the release. I'm glad these complaints are being voiced, and I hope they result in alterations.

    To be fair, I will also express my positive feelings about things like Spellsingers getting Heal at 20, the new slaying arrows and sniper shot in fury, Pally splash options when it comes to healing amp and tactical DCs (charisma mod to str on tier 2), reducing dragonmark feat requirements, all 3 Ranger trees, the Kensai tier 5 centering ability, thief acrobats becoming legit, and the ability to more easily and effectively make self healing characters because of the highest tree tiers only needing 5 levels in a class, making it easier to take a lot of levels in a self healing class then splash in a few levels of something else while also doing good DPS.

    To summarize, I hope we can be a little less vitriolic and a little more open minded in these discussions. I'm sure we can all juggle more than one idea or viewpoint in our heads, so let's not allow personal agendas to make us look like simpletons.

  19. #59
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    One thing that everyone seems to not notice that's disappeared completely with the new enhancements is that Racial Summoning, aka the Iron Defender Companion line, has been removed completely from the game.

  20. #60
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    I remember there being a lot or rage and debate going on the old forums then not long after that we got new forums and people seem to post, take part in a lot less. I'm concerned about a lot of the changes that appear to be upcoming, Especially the ones that appear to effect my characters directly. I don't get OP's 9-10 DOS and SD losing all the stance prestige benefits when they don't have a shield equipped most SD's and DOS that I know use 2wf and 2hf most of the time when dps is needed and use shields for tanking or when they need the extra defenses, there are some who S&B all the time using bastard swords but most i would know would either quit, tr, or just bench that toon instead of moving to that.

    The moving of the devotion line into one prestige for paladins and rangers has me concerned as well........it just seems very inflexible and to me that's the impression I get with this new system overall, to push people into certain *builds* one strength of this game I thought was the build customization and this update to me appears to really narrow down peoples options. But hey I hope im *wrong* and it will all be rainbows and unicorns.

    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    One thing that everyone seems to not notice that's disappeared completely with the new enhancements is that Racial Summoning, aka the Iron Defender Companion line, has been removed completely from the game.
    ah the grease doggie of doom? haha i remember those things at low level they are funny as hell with all the melee sliping and sliding all over the place be a shame . No im not greasing on purpose its my dog!!!! Bad doggie!!!
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 07-03-2013 at 07:58 PM.

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