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  1. #61
    Community Member Dreppo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Sorcs
    Pallies
    Rangers
    Druids
    Clerics
    FVS
    SD Fighters
    Barbs

    Your fotm builds like the juggernaut have the potential to come out even stronger. Your argument is invalid.
    Rangers are SIGNIFICANTLY better with the new enhancements. Yes at this point they've lost the devotion line, but even if it stays that way (which we don't know), this pales in comparison to the buffs they are getting. Ranged especially. My arcane archer is drooling over the changes.

    Barbs also look like they got boosted. Mixing frenzied and ravager together, you come out stronger than a frenzied right now on live.

    You have to use a slightly different mentality when comparing the new vs old enhancements. You can't just look at one individual PrE to see if it's better or worse, because for the first time characters can take more than one PrE in a given class. This will put most characters ahead in the new system. There will be *combinations* of abilities that were never possible before.

  2. #62
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    Rangers are SIGNIFICANTLY better with the new enhancements. Yes at this point they've lost the devotion line, but even if it stays that way (which we don't know), this pales in comparison to the buffs they are getting. Ranged especially. My arcane archer is drooling over the changes.

    Barbs also look like they got boosted. Mixing frenzied and ravager together, you come out stronger than a frenzied right now on live.

    You have to use a slightly different mentality when comparing the new vs old enhancements. You can't just look at one individual PrE to see if it's better or worse, because for the first time characters can take more than one PrE in a given class. This will put most characters ahead in the new system. There will be *combinations* of abilities that were never possible before.
    what about tempests? But isn't it limited quite a bit by *points* class? Don't AA's get all the devotion line so if tempests want to self heal of the blue bar they have to invest heavily in the AA line therefore heavily nerfing their abilities in the Tempest line.......which would lead a lot to just throw up their hands and just roll a AA anyway.
    Paladins the same thing DOS gets the devotion line......... but hey if you just throw up your hands and bite the bullet and roll up a DOS pally I hope you like S&B 24/7.
    From the looks of it my SS bard will probably be happy... not so sure about my wizard who is going to be a sorc................

  3. #63
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    Rangers are SIGNIFICANTLY better with the new enhancements. Yes at this point they've lost the devotion line, but even if it stays that way (which we don't know), this pales in comparison to the buffs they are getting. Ranged especially. My arcane archer is drooling over the changes.
    Your pure ranger will still be gimped dps every time manyshot is on cd, and your self healing will blow. Barbs are loosing x2 crit multi, casters are loosing crit, the skill pass nerfs everyones build points in order to get spwr.

  4. #64
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    The moving of the devotion line into one prestige for paladins and rangers has me concerned as well........it just seems very inflexible and to me that's the impression I get with this new system overall, to push people into certain *builds* one strength of this game I thought was the build customization and this update to me appears to really narrow down peoples options. But hey I hope im *wrong* and it will all be rainbows and unicorns.
    On that in particular, I'm still scratching my head wondering why they didn't break the three aspects into one tree per: DPS, Mitigation, Heal (particularly for pallies since the HoTD was so very nearly there anyway.). But then, that would presume trees-as-aspect-emphases of a character being a design pillar.
    Last edited by Scraap; 07-03-2013 at 08:12 PM.

  5. #65
    Community Member toaftoaf's Avatar
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    Default well i figured out the only way my rangerficer build could work. it's sad

    the only way to save my rangerficer build is NOT to take ANY artie enhancments. sad, but no way i would pay 24 AP for endless.. the lack of devotion in ranger is killing the waterbaloon throwing build at least it will save me allot in water baloons

  6. #66
    Community Member Dreppo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    what about tempests? But isn't it limited quite a bit by *points* class? Don't AA's get all the devotion line so if tempests want to self heal of the blue bar they have to invest heavily in the AA line therefore heavily nerfing their abilities in the Tempest line.......which would lead a lot to just throw up their hands and just roll a AA anyway.
    No, AAs don't get a devotion line. No rangers get devotion right now on Lama. So there's no reason for tempests to dip into AA. Deepwood has stuff that all rangers would find useful, so both AAs and tempests will want to dip into it. Deepwood has slightly more value for AAs, but still a lot of value for tempests. As for tempest overall, I think they are definitely coming out ahead in the new enhancements. The tempest tree is really good.

  7. #67
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    No, AAs don't get a devotion line. No rangers get devotion right now on Lama. So there's no reason for tempests to dip into AA. Deepwood has stuff that all rangers would find useful, so both AAs and tempests will want to dip into it. Deepwood has slightly more value for AAs, but still a lot of value for tempests. As for tempest overall, I think they are definitely coming out ahead in the new enhancements. The tempest tree is really good.
    Ok sorry I was basing what I said off old news from the *old* servers lol. But no *devotion* at all for rangers? I don't think that's a good thing but I guess its all based on how I like to play my rangers, in fact all my characters. I hope they can still reach some decent self healing numbers without a devotion line with buffs from other stuffs.

  8. #68
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Then you don't have any understanding of game mechanics. Sorry but people that can't add don't get an opinion.
    So, because I have a far different experience with my characters in the new system you resort to name calling?

    My opinion of the new system is not valid and has a place here?

    I am not allowed to post my views?



    I hope you can find enjoyment in the next game you play as anyone that finds enjoyment here or is able to make the best of the new system is not welcome here as you have made clear.

    Good luck to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  9. #69
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    This is a moot point. Turbine could be making a lot more money if they were not alienating its customers.

    As to the second point, yes, they are going to nerf the flavor builds. I don’t like it, but I can understand it. But, what you fail to see is that they are truly nerfing certain classes beyond what they are now. Clerics are just heal bots now? Spell power is down the toilet? You can play devil’s advocate all you like, but these are the facts.

    This is not a war worth fighting though. Turbine has supreme reign and they can do as they please. If you permit I would like to /tinfoil for a sec.

    Come October, servers will be so slow that they will be offering all servers xp like they are Wayfinder. People that are coming back from school, nwo, or other RL things are going to be pi$$ed when they see that they will have to tr half their toons because they are not what they once were. How many people will turn the computer back to nwo, ESO, or real life to avoid having to regrind what Turbine has torn up?

    P.S. I may be one of those who complain about when the servers are coming back up. I do not hate this game, I just hate seeing what Turbine is doing to it. I use to be able to log on and find a million things to enjoy. Now I find far less and am mindful of what type of bait/switch or cash grab idea that they have.

    Thank you Vint for an honest reply.

    I hope you can find enjoyment in the next game you play - I really do.

    I'll continue to play this one and make the best of it.


    Safe travels to you!

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  10. #70
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    So, because I have a far different experience with my characters in the new system you resort to name calling?

    My opinion of the new system is not valid and has a place here?

    I am not allowed to post my views?



    I hope you can find enjoyment in the next game you play as anyone that finds enjoyment here or is able to make the best of the new system is not welcome here as you have made clear.

    Good luck to you.
    Eh I didn't see any direct name calling from him? He did say that you know nothing of the game mechanics. So I guess he might be *implying* something I hope its not negative because I don't count myself as an expert on the game mechanics.

    Though it does seem that a lot of builds get the shaft, but one that a lot of people call FOTM the jug will be getting a boost. So my bard and my upcomming jug will be happy but my other characters most likely not so much. I guess we will just have to wait and see. I hope this whole thing is a Major success because it is huge, it will have to be.

  11. #71
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Your pure ranger will still be gimped dps every time manyshot is on cd, and your self healing will blow. Barbs are loosing x2 crit multi, casters are loosing crit, the skill pass nerfs everyones build points in order to get spwr.
    I was unaware that rangers are gimp now. funny how my ranger can do the same things my barb can do, which are the same things that these FOTM builds and caster types do that solo tough content. my ranger isn't pure, 2 levels of fighter, but I planned on TRing those levels out and going pure since theres no real need anymore for those levels with EDs as powerful as they are. must have missed that memo.

  12. #72
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Barbarians lose X2 criticals from current Frenzied PrE

    Why?
    How many barbs you see at the end game now, 1% maybe and you nerf them more?
    If they dont give something awesome in return for my barb I will most likely stop playing the game.

  13. #73
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Your pure ranger will still be gimped dps every time manyshot is on cd, and your self healing will blow.


    Agreed that the self healing takes a hit if positive spellpower isn't added to the ranger trees. Not sure about the DPS. If the statement is in reference to slaying arrows probably not being used much when manyshot or 10k aren't up, then I think other abilities like sniper shot are being overlooked.

  14. #74
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    Agreed that the self healing takes a hit if positive spellpower isn't added to the ranger trees. Not sure about the DPS. If the statement is in reference to slaying arrows probably not being used much when manyshot or 10k aren't up, then I think other abilities like sniper shot are being overlooked.
    Tempest is getting a little better, I think it will still be behind other melee builds in dps terms such as rogue, kensai, barb, but it's better. AA though is going to still have problems with slower attack speed, nothing like power attack, 1x str mod unlike 2hf. Yeah they're going to do the whole doubleshot thing, but because melee get double strike this only narrows the gap a little bit. The clickies have changed, and perfectly managed I can see the clickies adding a little dps, but I don't think that it equals a current moncher build or a melee dps build.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    No, AAs don't get a devotion line. No rangers get devotion right now on Lama. So there's no reason for tempests to dip into AA. Deepwood has stuff that all rangers would find useful, so both AAs and tempests will want to dip into it. Deepwood has slightly more value for AAs, but still a lot of value for tempests. As for tempest overall, I think they are definitely coming out ahead in the new enhancements. The tempest tree is really good.
    Tempest tree is too defensive, especially at the top end, I think. Only one line of offense, then a whole lot of dual-wield passive dodge/AC/PRR/deflect/etc. bonuses.

    The long-cooldown, short-duration buffs are too situational IMO. I'd really like to see one more 6-second clickable attack besides Bleed Them Out. Really, you'd be better off splashing Tempest line just to Bleed Them Out, then splashing DS to Exposing Strike, then taking another class for some more offensive melee options, maybe Druid or Barb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Why would someone roll a gimp. BTW it's still a gimp most likely, haven't looked hard at the dex damage changes but there are still more sources and ways to increase str compared to dex so dex damage is still second rate. Math is hard for me.
    That's just my point, though. Builds that are gimp now are not gimp on Lama. You assume that only the things currently worth playing are worth improving.

    Dex builds are not only viable, they're downright awesome, at least for the TWF rangers I've played. STR=melee dam/to-hit, ranged dam (Bow STR), and a few other things like carrying capacity. DEX=melee and ranged dam/to-hit, AC, reflex save (on an Evasion class). And other than Rage, there's nothing that boosts STR that doesn't have a DEX counterpart as well.

  16. #76
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    That's just my point, though. Builds that are gimp now are not gimp on Lama. You assume that only the things currently worth playing are worth improving.
    There is a basic logical problem at work above.

    It goes something like the following...

    * those who cared about their builds a lot already bothered building toons which were not gimps
    * those who did not care so much have more gimps
    * those who did not care so much before have a lot of variety of gimps
    * only some of the variety of gimps get buffed
    * So only a portion of those who did not care so much before get a buff while those who did get a nerf.
    * So those who care most about it get the most pain while those who care least about it get some benefits...but only a fraction of those..
    Proud Recipient of At least 8 Negative Rep From NA Threads.
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  17. #77
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    Default Arcane Archer Nerf

    Before, you could put full Arcane Archer enhancements on a (half)elf build with 2 feats and 13 AP, or 3 feats and 12 AP depending if you have an arcane class splash. Now, it takes 14 AP just to unlock the tree, and another 30-40 to take the top tier enhancements. And on top of all that it locks out the top tier enhancements in your class trees, which it didn't do before.

    I admit, it doesn't take the feats any more (though most archer builds would take Point Blank Shot anyway), but it's such a ridiculous number of extra AP.

  18. #78
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Dex builds are not only viable, they're downright awesome, at least for the TWF rangers I've played. STR=melee dam/to-hit, ranged dam (Bow STR), and a few other things like carrying capacity. DEX=melee and ranged dam/to-hit, AC, reflex save (on an Evasion class). And other than Rage, there's nothing that boosts STR that doesn't have a DEX counterpart as well.
    Not true

    Primal Scream: Active Ability: (Cooldown 15 seconds) Nearby allies are raged gaining +[3/4/5] morale bonus to Strength and Constitution, and suffer a -2 penalty to armor class. Nearby enemies take up to [10/20/30]d20 sonic damage. [3/4/5] uses per rest. Duration 3 minutes per use.

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Nether_...%28Level_25%29
    is two profane most you can get profane is litany for dex which is +1

    That's a total of +6 that you can't get in dex off the top of my head, that's 3 damage on each hit and 9 or more on each crit. You can get 50+ reflex still on a str build which is still very good for ee damage and doesn't require lowering your dps to do so. As far as to hit goes that also really isn't an issue as most of your to hit comes from proficiency ext after last years ac pass, yeah you want to have decent stats for whatever your to hit stat is, but it doesn't need to be cranked up now just to hit high ac mobs like old epic malicia ext. Dex builds are still behind in the only thing that matters in ddo which is dps, and they aren't far enough ahead in defense to make a significant difference.

  19. #79
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Not true

    Primal Scream: Active Ability: (Cooldown 15 seconds) Nearby allies are raged gaining +[3/4/5] morale bonus to Strength and Constitution, and suffer a -2 penalty to armor class. Nearby enemies take up to [10/20/30]d20 sonic damage. [3/4/5] uses per rest. Duration 3 minutes per use.

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Nether_...%28Level_25%29
    is two profane most you can get profane is litany for dex which is +1

    That's a total of +6 that you can't get in dex off the top of my head, that's 3 damage on each hit and 9 or more on each crit. You can get 50+ reflex still on a str build which is still very good for ee damage and doesn't require lowering your dps to do so. As far as to hit goes that also really isn't an issue as most of your to hit comes from proficiency ext after last years ac pass, yeah you want to have decent stats for whatever your to hit stat is, but it doesn't need to be cranked up now just to hit high ac mobs like old epic malicia ext. Dex builds are still behind in the only thing that matters in ddo which is dps, and they aren't far enough ahead in defense to make a significant difference.
    Um also things like the titans grip clickie? and there are some more items it seems like there are more ways to up str via stacking than dex and other abilities. But I like how they gave dex a boost.

  20. #80
    Community Member Aranel12's Avatar
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    Default Dos stance and fighter stance works on THf and TwF

    Just want to say that the DoS stance works in THF and TwF fighting the same should be with the fighter stance.

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