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  1. #1
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    Default What is the state of wizards?

    I was a pale master pre U14, played for a few weeks post u14, lost interest and took a break for a while. (Got burnt out TRing over and over.)

    So, now I'm back, and mages seem... ... ... weak. My spell points can't get me from shrine to shrine very well. Trying to DC finger, the wail changes, and other issues make getting from a to b on spell points tediously slow.

    I have an epic monk as well, and between just blitz EiN and the fact you never run out of punch power. Pretty much a non-issue.

    Now I've seen people / videos spanning SLA MM, with shadari to get the damage they need to make the SP last. Basically 3k mana 4 mana at a time, with shadari to make it last from a to b. I find myself standing around waiting for melees to do the damage, because it seems "hard" to have the stay power from a to b.

    If you pocket healer runs out of SP on a melee, you just dismiss, grab a drink, and re summon with full Sp and pots at the door (worst case). If you run out of mana as a caster... you drink pots, lots of them, that are a bit obnoxious to get.

    It just seems that the blue bars don't have the stay power... AT ALL of a melee. Is arcane Mage the flavor of the month?

    Where is the ED that gives casters back "fast healing" for mana?

  2. #2
    Community Member nikos1313's Avatar
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    hey, welcome back!

    i used to have my main toon Pale Master. Level 25, Magister, 4th lifer (3 wiz past lifes) with pretty nice gear, max Int and Con, pretty nice DCs and Spell Pene etc, and he was my favourite toon to play. then the wail bug arrived, and i was mad and parked him for good. started an arty, which it turned out my new main toon! i loved him, i got him pretty nice geared also atm, but latelly i started to miss my wizzy, so i dig him out again. wail still have issues, but Circle of death makes up for it. i missed my mass holds and webs, and i was excited playing my wiz again! i never took Shiradi, coz i found that kind of gameplay boring as hell. i mean, what the big deal if u just spamm 1 button? or make it 2, with haste... i found no fun in that, and i would love to see that borked, as well as monchers!! its pretty unbalancing.

    thats all from me!
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikos1313 View Post
    monchers
    Monchers? I assume using zen, and multi-shot and shadari again?

    6/12/2 split of some kind? or just 12/8 or 12/8? ;-)

    Multi-shot does some pretty craaaazy damage, always has. I assume it's some combo there of.

    I was thinking of making a 6 ranger 2 arti 12 monk. Follow the flava of the moment. And I don't have a SINGLE multi-class character. I made a 18 Cleric, and didn't add any figher levels till 18, just cause cleric wasn't getting me much on 19/20.
    Last edited by 350zguy; 07-02-2013 at 07:13 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member SemiraLynn's Avatar
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    My Pale Master is my main. I can't comment about how Wizards are on Epic Elite but for all other content they seem to blast through things as effortlessly as always. Gianthold Tor Giants on Epic Hard? Fingered quite easily.

    Wail is broken to the point that every time you cast it Kobolds start laughing at you. But I've found that Circle of Death does a pretty good job at demolishing groups of monsters. It's not as great as the Wail of old, but it's a nice replacement until/if they fix Wail.

    Spell Points are never really an issue for me. I have a Torc and Con Op and on Epic Hard I can take a fair amount of beatings to restore my sp when needed. When soloing even the Necro SLAs can get my by just fine when SP is a bit tight. All in all I still find Wizards far more enjoyable and capable than any other class.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SemiraLynn View Post
    My Pale Master is my main. I can't comment about how Wizards are on Epic Elite but for all other content they seem to blast through things as effortlessly as always. Gianthold Tor Giants on Epic Hard? Fingered quite easily.

    Wail is broken to the point that every time you cast it Kobolds start laughing at you. But I've found that Circle of Death does a pretty good job at demolishing groups of monsters. It's not as great as the Wail of old, but it's a nice replacement until/if they fix Wail.

    Spell Points are never really an issue for me. I have a Torc and Con Op and on Epic Hard I can take a fair amount of beatings to restore my sp when needed. When soloing even the Necro SLAs can get my by just fine when SP is a bit tight. All in all I still find Wizards far more enjoyable and capable than any other class.
    I have torc, no green for me... Hated that place.

    What are your DC? I didn't think I was doing too bad, I'm @ a 47ish without height. Even that would only get me to 49ish. I saw someone say they had a 58 dc? That is nuts, I don't get how that is possible.

  6. #6
    Uber Completionist luvirini's Avatar
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    My level 25 wizard that used to be my main has been parked since bit after update 14 as wizards are still broken. I mean, it has only been "few" updates since... (all the things like wail, vampire form, enemies going through your body to cause "you are not facing" are still there along with the new things like spell crits being broken..)

    But mostly it was the nerfs that got me to stop playing wizards in epics. (Basically a character that could solo a lot of the "old style" epics at level 20 pre u14, now struggles in some epic hards at level 25 as I find being shiradi boring "pew pew". The nerfs to self healing for palemasters, the huge increase in enemy saves and so on just make the pew pew take too long...)

  7. #7
    Community Member nikos1313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    Monchers? I assume using zen, and multi-shot and shadari again?

    6/12/2 split of some kind? or just 12/8 or 12/8? ;-)

    Multi-shot does some pretty craaaazy damage, always has. I assume it's some combo there of.

    I was thinking of making a 6 ranger 2 arti 12 monk. Follow the flava of the moment. And I don't have a SINGLE multi-class character. I made a 18 Cleric, and didn't add any figher levels till 18, just cause cleric wasn't getting me much on 19/20.
    This will give you an idea of Monchers
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUb3VI7AhKM

    Crazy DPS but it ends up ridiculous.. it must be removed/borked
    Last edited by nikos1313; 07-03-2013 at 07:48 AM.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    First thought when I saw this was Arizona...

    There is no free lunch.

  9. #9
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    I was a pale master pre U14, played for a few weeks post u14, lost interest and took a break for a while. (Got burnt out TRing over and over.)

    So, now I'm back, and mages seem... ... ... weak. My spell points can't get me from shrine to shrine very well. Trying to DC finger, the wail changes, and other issues make getting from a to b on spell points tediously slow.

    I have an epic monk as well, and between just blitz EiN and the fact you never run out of punch power. Pretty much a non-issue.

    Now I've seen people / videos spanning SLA MM, with shadari to get the damage they need to make the SP last. Basically 3k mana 4 mana at a time, with shadari to make it last from a to b. I find myself standing around waiting for melees to do the damage, because it seems "hard" to have the stay power from a to b.

    If you pocket healer runs out of SP on a melee, you just dismiss, grab a drink, and re summon with full Sp and pots at the door (worst case). If you run out of mana as a caster... you drink pots, lots of them, that are a bit obnoxious to get.

    It just seems that the blue bars don't have the stay power... AT ALL of a melee. Is arcane Mage the flavor of the month?

    Where is the ED that gives casters back "fast healing" for mana?
    Funny, I was just commenting not too long ago in the BYOH thread about self-healing draining the available SP pool, and I was told that I was nuts. However, your point here is more or less in line with what I was talking about.

    I don’t find them weak at all. My main is a second-life PM, pretty well geared (nothing really standout in his gear setup), who shoots for DC casting, though it is clear that DC casting is hard to obtain. Still, epic normal and even epic hard at level is not something for which he is unsuited. I do more stealth work on solo, and use more or the SLAs for trash as often as I can. I tend to do instakills where I know they will land successfully (read: enemy casters), reserve enchants and AoEs for melee mobs, and DoTs for bosses. I do find, between melee, buffing, and self-healing I’m running very close to the edge with SP by the time I reach the shrine.

    I’ve been using a lot of pots lately, but it has very little to do with my abilities. There is a running joke in my group about my obsession with kill counts and sniping other people’s kills. So I tend to go hog-wild with the instakills in the group that I run with. Or if I just want to run through something quickly because I want to flag and be done with it, or experimenting. In those cases, I’ll use pots without reservation.
    ConOpp bracers don’t really do squat for mana restoration. I have yet to get a Torc, and I’m not really holding my breath on that one. That being said, what I do expend, I usually get decent results. It’s more about being effective with the spells you have than the degradation of instakills.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnhelm View Post
    First thought when I saw this was Arizona...

    False!
    It's Oz!

  11. #11
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post

    If you pocket healer runs out of SP on a melee, you just dismiss, grab a drink, and re summon with full Sp and pots at the door (worst case). If you run out of mana as a caster... you drink pots, lots of them, that are a bit obnoxious to get.
    Nope. You summon a few Cleric Hirelings that DV the hell out of you.

    Children these days . . .

  12. #12
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikos1313 View Post
    This will give you an idea of Monchers
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUb3VI7AhKM

    Crazy DPS but it ends up ridiculous.. it must be removed/borked
    As happy as I am that you're linking to my video (more hits on my channel and all), that video does show pretty much ideal circumstances and isn't a good representation for monkchers in real questing, just a show of burst DPS (as monkchers were, last I played, kings of burst DPS)...when you get to longer fights, their DPS tapers enough to be similar to the DPS of other characters.

    As far as the OP's questions, wizards are quite strong...as long as you're Shiradi or don't play EE. If you try to play a PM DC-based caster in content like EE GH, you're gonna have a bad time.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  13. #13
    Community Member nikos1313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    As happy as I am that you're linking to my video (more hits on my channel and all), that video does show pretty much ideal circumstances and isn't a good representation for monkchers in real questing, just a show of burst DPS (as monkchers were, last I played, kings of burst DPS)...when you get to longer fights, their DPS tapers enough to be similar to the DPS of other characters.

    As far as the OP's questions, wizards are quite strong...as long as you're Shiradi or don't play EE. If you try to play a PM DC-based caster in content like EE GH, you're gonna have a bad time.
    oh thats you? cool! i guess you are right about the 'ideal circumstances' and that u need some preparation to be able to do all taht in the vid. i should have mention that. but still, the DPS is way over from just 'crazy' even just for that only moment u'll do it in a quest. and i feel that it needs some borking. idk how, but it needs to!

    about that EE and wizards, i agree also. you need some serious DCs and Spell Pene for EEs.
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  14. #14
    Community Member DynaTheCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SemiraLynn View Post
    My Pale Master is my main. I can't comment about how Wizards are on Epic Elite but for all other content they seem to blast through things as effortlessly as always. Gianthold Tor Giants on Epic Hard? Fingered quite easily.
    Full force Pale master / shiradi are the best...

    EE TOR? Do that in my sleep.

  15. #15
    Community Member SemiraLynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350zguy View Post
    I have torc, no green for me... Hated that place.

    What are your DC? I didn't think I was doing too bad, I'm @ a 47ish without height. Even that would only get me to 49ish. I saw someone say they had a 58 dc? That is nuts, I don't get how that is possible.
    An unbuffed Necro DC of 51. Then as the situation warrants all kinds of stuff can raise that (potions, bard songs, Magister spell surge, whatever...).

    Some people have mentioned that spell points are a bit tight. I find that careful SP management can eliminate that. I see a lot of casters enter a quest and start auto-spamming buffs left and right. I only like to cast buffs that are vital for that specific quest and outside of Haste and Rage I never buff others unless they specifically ask (which I will gladly help out with). Most of the time, especially when I'm solo, I just go into Lich form and start the quest. No buffs at all. I rather use that SP to kill things.

    Some casters also can't seem to settle on what kind of role they are going to be playing when grouping with others. If you can insta-kill everything and zoom through the quest, then do that and almost only that. Don't also try to CC and buff and cast tons of AoEs and so forth. If you are more of a CC wizard, then focus on that and spam free SLAs while everything is dancing and the party is killing. Stick to a role and SP should never be a problem unless the quest goes sour (lag, bad party, a comet crashes into your house). The casters that try to do everything nonstop often run out of SP very quickly.
    Orien Player: Semirasai, ~3~ L28 Drow Wizard :: Kaethe, ~5~ L13 Halfling Barb/Bard/Rog :: Esthera, ~2~ L26 Human Favored Soul
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