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  1. #1
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    Default Warforged shafted on PRR

    Warforged base body type: Composite Plating 2 AC 5% spell failure for all intent and purpose light armor...no PRR?
    This is essentially leather armor. They should get light armor PRR here.

    : Mithril Body 5 AC 15% sf being given a special reduced for of light armor PRR?
    This is the equivalent of mithril chainmail (Medium armor that counts as light for beneficial purposes, else mithril is less protective than steel which is so far from as intended as to be shameful)

    : Adamantine Body hel, uyou get the idea this one is heavy armor PRR but lighter than the standard one. WAY to much wf hate goin on.

  2. #2
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Perhaps as a trade off for no max Dex bonus/dodge % not being limited by armor?

    Tbh, I haven done the math or checked the combat log, I'm not that into # crunching. But I have noticed that on my current WF Pally w/Addy Body feat, I get my full Dex bonus to AC, and see the "dodge" effect float above my head often enough...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow - btw, do you have change for 10 million population?

  3. #3
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I would rate composite plating more like outfits, robes or no armor at all. If you're a warforged monk, composite plating will not uncenter you. It's not the most popular answer, but I'm fine with 0 PRR on composite plating.

    With that being said, I think mithril plating should get all the PRR benefits of light armor (not medium as mithril plating still allows for evasion) and adamantine plating should get all the PRR benefits of heavy armor. I believe I read somewhere that the devs were still on the fence about adding this in. The only thing going through my mind was that I'd love to be a part of that conversation because in my mind it's not overly complicated to want to implement, though the actual implementation might be a difficult thing in a technical sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I would rate composite plating more like outfits, robes or no armor at all. If you're a warforged monk, composite plating will not uncenter you. It's not the most popular answer, but I'm fine with 0 PRR on composite plating.

    With that being said, I think mithril plating should get all the PRR benefits of light armor (not medium as mithril plating still allows for evasion) and adamantine plating should get all the PRR benefits of heavy armor. I believe I read somewhere that the devs were still on the fence about adding this in. The only thing going through my mind was that I'd love to be a part of that conversation because in my mind it's not overly complicated to want to implement, though the actual implementation might be a difficult thing in a technical sense.
    In paper pencil there is a wf prestige option to become less construct based. They give up composite plating as i recall. That would be "unarmored". Wf base body is indeed armor in multiple senses. First it provides armor..kind of a big one. Second it provides spell failure, unless you know some other way to increase ones chance of failing a spell due to ASF? This also is a big one. Third is a clear tier of light, medium, heavy which some have chosen to see in a very curious and punitive light. Fourth is the well understood issue that wf are oriented toward arcane casting over divine casting... You get the idea I hope. More to follow.

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    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disgruntled175 View Post
    In paper pencil there is a wf prestige option to become less construct based. They give up composite plating as i recall. That would be "unarmored". Wf base body is indeed armor in multiple senses. First it provides armor..kind of a big one. Second it provides spell failure, unless you know some other way to increase ones chance of failing a spell due to ASF? This also is a big one. Third is a clear tier of light, medium, heavy which some have chosen to see in a very curious and punitive light. Fourth is the well understood issue that wf are oriented toward arcane casting over divine casting... You get the idea I hope. More to follow.
    We agree to disagree then. I see composite plating as unarmored, mostly because of the monk situation. Counting it as light armor would be like allowing WF monks to wear armor. I can't see that happening. From a lore point of view, I do get that it's like a type of armor. It's difficult to draw comparisons to pnp here are PRR is a Turbine fabrication for the most part.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Perhaps as a trade off for no max Dex bonus/dodge % not being limited by armor?

    Tbh, I haven done the math or checked the combat log, I'm not that into # crunching. But I have noticed that on my current WF Pally w/Addy Body feat, I get my full Dex bonus to AC, and see the "dodge" effect float above my head often enough...
    What you say here is either false, a bug, or the stated text for Adamantine Body needs to be updated. Even if it is true and working as intended it doesn't excuse the fact that wf have reduced PRR compared to their fleshie counterparts in all tiers, which they do. Nor does it excuse the nerf to wf casting in this thing that folks do not want to consider armor that we call their bodies in the form of ASF nerfs. In particular the wf do not get to put twilight on docents. Sigil, the wf "equilvalent" of twilight has been made not to stack with casting dexterity. Casting dexterity continues to stack with twilight. If you wish to suggest that wf are not being systematically nerfed that is your prerogative. It is of course false. On an interesting side note wf is a pay to play race. This speaks to Turbines tendency to take away that which you have already payed for.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    We agree to disagree then. I see composite plating as unarmored, mostly because of the monk situation. Counting it as light armor would be like allowing WF monks to wear armor. I can't see that happening. From a lore point of view, I do get that it's like a type of armor. It's difficult to draw comparisons to pnp here are PRR is a Turbine fabrication for the most part.
    Allowing wf to keep the armor from their base form was a simple nod to allowing wf to be monks without massive coding issues. Additionally the 2 armor base form gives is largely mitigated by the stat penalty to wisdom that wf receive. This affects both AC and DC's. That said if it is game breaking for wf monks to get PRR(which really shouldn't exist here in the first place and just deepens divides and further enforces roles, ALA that other game) then exclude monks from getting it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disgruntled175 View Post
    What you say here is either false, a bug, or the stated text for Adamantine Body needs to be updated. Even if it is true and working as intended it doesn't excuse the fact that wf have reduced PRR compared to their fleshie counterparts in all tiers, which they do. Nor does it excuse the nerf to wf casting in this thing that folks do not want to consider armor that we call their bodies in the form of ASF nerfs. In particular the wf do not get to put twilight on docents. Sigil, the wf "equilvalent" of twilight has been made not to stack with casting dexterity. Casting dexterity continues to stack with twilight. If you wish to suggest that wf are not being systematically nerfed that is your prerogative. It is of course false. On an interesting side note wf is a pay to play race. This speaks to Turbines tendency to take away that which you have already payed for.
    Hmm.. Yah, I checked the feat description, it says I should only get a MDB of 1, yet on the inventory page my docent (unsuppressed Quorforged DoB) it clearly shows "armor w/AdaBody 20" and "armor w/Dex 30" although my dex bonous is only 3, and taking off the dex item drops it to "armor w/Dex 27" so I'll go with bug on that one.

    Edit: Went an educated myself further on my situation, and being DoS accounts for the additional MDB; so not a bug, in this case wai.

    As for me suggesting "that WF are not being systematically nerfed" lol I made no such suggestion I mearly made an observation and offered some speculation about why they may not be receiving the full PRR (that I agree btw) they should.

    As far as asf & the rest goes, I didn't realize that what I thought was a WF PRR discusion was the intro to a larger crusade about how WF have suffered at the hands of the devs (which I do agree they have)... Good luck with your endeavors...
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 07-02-2013 at 10:45 PM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow - btw, do you have change for 10 million population?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Hmm.. Yah, I checked the feat description, it says I should only get a MDB of 1, yet on the inventory page my docent (unsuppressed Quorforged DoB) it clearly shows "armor w/AdaBody 20" and "armor w/Dex 30" although my dex bonous is only 3, and taking off the dex item drops it to "armor w/Dex 27" so I'll go with bug on that one.

    Edit: Went an educated myself further on my situation, and being DoS accounts for the additional MDB; so not a bug, in this case wai.

    As for me suggesting "that WF are not being systematically nerfed" lol I made no such suggestion I mearly made an observation and offered some speculation about why they may not be receiving the full PRR (that I agree btw) they should.

    As far as asf & the rest goes, I didn't realize that what I thought was a WF PRR discusion was the intro to a larger crusade about how WF have suffered at the hands of the devs (which I do agree they have)... Good luck with your endeavors...
    Just a simple observation on my part that most people arguing against any part of my various wf rants are either A not using strong logic or B hate wf. This is due entirely to the fact that my wf rants are carefully considered for fairness. As such I put you in one of these categories. This was out of respect for the assumption that you knew what you were talking about when you wrote. I do not intend to convey what this then falls to conveying but there is no other option left.

    That I brought ASF into the thread was simply to demonstrate that it is not this one issue singularly that is being nerfed for wf. I also seek parity in the other wf issues and it seemed that perhaps people would acknowledge the one issue more readily if the others were also brought forth.

    No offense intended. I just seek justice.

    ps I like your quotes.
    Last edited by Disgruntled175; 07-03-2013 at 01:18 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    Lets talk about "Adamantine Body" - an armor you have to pay a feat for (!), and which is clearly Heavy Armor.

    So why is its PRR lower than that of every other heavy armor PRR?
    Certainly not balancing, because then its very high cost (1 feat remember) should be balanced by higher gain. So it could be justified that it acutally gave more PRR than a regular Heavy Armor, and not less.
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