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  1. #1
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    Default The Advanced Stealth Guide

    Welcome to The Advanced Stealth Guide, where you may or may not learn how to avoid pretty much every non-required fight there is.

    A few quick notes before beginning:
    • This guide assumes a few basic things:
      • You have some level of experience with basic sneaking. You know a bit about the mechanics, such as auto-detect zones, spot checks and listen checks.
      • You have a high hide and move silently score. For Epic Elites, you'll want over 90 in at least Move Silently (90 is not actually that hard a number to reach). Invisibility makes Hide not as important, however Hide should be equal to your MS anyway. The point is, get it as high as you can each level and you'll be good to go.
      • You have a useful UMD score.
      • You are going to be soloing/shortmanning

    • Sneaking is one thing. Stealth is a different thing. Sneak is a stance you can activate that allows you to move undetected. Stealth is the style of play that involves completing the quest with minimal amounts of fighting or alerting of mobs.
    • This guide is meant for Rogue characters, but is useful for any class. The major differences between Rogue stealth and other stealth is that Rogues have Assassinate and Noisemakers.
    • Stealth is not quick! Take your time.
    • It's better to skip past a mob than to fight it. However, sometimes it's easier to just kill something, and sometimes you're required to.
    • If you have suggestions/corrections, feel free to give them.
    • This guide is primarily aimed at high-level characters, however most methods work at lower levels.


    Your Build

    Anyone with a high Hide/MS score can be stealthy. Stealth is not a build, it's a playstyle. That said, you should probably max out your skill points in H/MS. The 12-point penalty for not having H/MS is something that should be avoided: take a splash in monk, rogue, ranger, etc if you can.

    Spot is useful for seeing the location of sneaking mobs, which, if bumped into, can rightly mess you up. If you have spare skill points, level this up.

    Bluff is very useful, and is criminally underused, even by parties. It allows you clear out a room one by one, preventing you from getting swarmed and alleviating a lot of damage (or all of it, if you can CC the mob).

    You should not take any feats or enhancements that improve your H/MS. As important as those skills are, a measly few points are not worth it in this case.

    Rogues are probably the best class for stealth play, depending on what factors you look at. Assassinate is incredibly useful, noisemakers are handy. They can also sneak faster and have bluff as a class skills. I would put Bards second, only because they have H/MS AND bluff as class skills and for their ridiculously powerful Fascinate; almost no matter how tough the going gets, they'll only have to fight one mob at a time. Monks, Rangers and Druids come after, with Druids and Monks probably on top. Druids have some good offensive and defensive spells and are very survivable, and can also compensate for their lack of H/MS as class skills with their spells. Monks have Abundant Step, which is very useful in many areas.

    At a glance:

    Rogue Bard Monk Ranger Everyone else
    H/MS Yes Yes Yes Yes No, -12*
    Bluff Yes Yes No, -12 No, -12 Sorc only
    DPS Very high Varies Very high Moderate Depends
    Faster Sneak Yes No No Yes No
    Assassinate Yes** No No No No
    Noisemakers Yes No No No Arti only
    UMD Yes Yes No, -12 No, -12 Depends
    Fascinate No Yes No No No
    Hide in Plain Sight No*** No*** No*** Yes No***

    *With some exceptions: Druids have the Pass Without Trace and Spiderskin Spells. Wizard Palemasters have Wraith form (although it can't be used with Shadow Form)
    **Requires the Assassin PrE
    ***Hide in Plain Sight can be obtained with Shadowdancer's Stealthy


    Epic Destiny

    Shadowdancer is, in my opinion, the single best destiny for stealthy toons, especially Rogues. For a few reasons:
    • Shadowform gives an immense +20 bonus to H/MS. It also gives a very useful 25% incorporeal miss chance, which is a great boon to your defenses.
    • "Stealthy," the level one enhancement, is another useful +6 to your H/MS, although this can be easily twisted. It also gives +6 to Assassinate DCs. This also has an unlisted effect of giving your toon Hide in Plain Sight, which lowers your light penalty by two "eyes" (you know what that is, right?)
    • Sneak Freedom: this clickie is immensely useful, even with its large cooldown.
    • The capstone, which allows you to sneak attack elementals, undead, etc. is exceptionally useful for rogues, but is not necessarily a bonus to stealth play.
    • Shadow Manipulation. My god, this ability is immensely powerful for stealth play. More on it later.


    If you don't use Shadowdancer... then just use whatever. Because there isn't really a "second best."

    Note with Shadowdancer: get your maximum number of shadowcharges prior to entering the quest, if possible.

    Twists

    Twists are mostly up to personal preference. My only recommendation is Otto's Whistler, which is extremely reliable single-target CC, and Summon Dryad Elder, which gives you a sturdy summon (more on that later).

    I personally use Whistler, Improved Combat Mastery, and Brace for Impact.

    Getting Good Sneak Scores

    23 bas
    15 Item
    10 DEX mod
    20 Shadow Form
    6 Stealthy
    5 Epic Levels
    4 GH
    2 Luck
    ___
    85, easy. Add in some more rare stuff and you're good to go. Minus 12 if your H/MS is not a class skill. Plus 8 if you're an Assassin.

    Note: it's possible to get scores of over 200


    Essential Tools


    Weapons


    Improved Deception. Improved Deception. Nothing. But. Improved. Deception.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63arxpwyFyo

    Observe. The boss is "locked down" due to the constant deception procs, which make the target vulnerable to sneak attacks as well as turning them around. The boss here is only able to cast two spells, and only because I activated Boosts. Note that I am also using an Improved Deception accessory: get one!

    Due to this "locking" effect, Improved Deception items are one of the best choices for soloing melee characters, not just stealth ones.

    Otherwise, use either your highest damage dealers. Your weapons will be (should be) almost exclusively for bosses/required kills. If you are a Rogue, also get Epic Midnight's Greetings

    Gear

    Besides the obvious skill bonuses to H/MS, gear is mostly the same as any other toon. Use what you like.

    Clickies/Scrolls

    Besides the usual...


    • Invisibility, in pots, wands or clickies. In case you didn't already have any of these. Not just useful for sneaking, but also for invis pulling, which will be covered in a bit
    • Enervation scrolls. Useful for Assassins if there's a mob that needs to be killed whose saves are just a tad too high for Assassinate. Also useful against meaty orange names or things like oozes, elementals, etc.
    • Halt/Command Undead scrolls. Simple, effective CC against undead.
    • Summon Monster scrolls/Roderic's Wand. Summons have a useful purpose in stealth, to be covered later.
    • Epic Big Top. Otto's Irresistable Dance clickie. I'm surprised I don't see this used more often.
    • Epic Wolf Whistle. Although rare, this powerful item summons the undoubtedly most powerful summon in the game.


    Abilities

    Noisemakers

    Noisemakers, which require at least one level in Rogue and Artificer (to take the trapmaking feat, which is an auto-grant for lvl4 Rogues/Arties), make a sound that attracts mobs to investigate. They are handy for moving mobs around, letting you pull levers or sneak by without getting seen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6LeHH6DVJE

    Noisemakers give you the highest level of control as to where the mobs will end up, and they're the best to use if you need to pull a lever or open a door without being noticed.

    Shadow Manipulation

    Easily the most powerful tool in your arsenal, this thing is immensely powerful. Requires a decent INT score if you're looking to use it in Epic Elite.

    This ability charms a single mob for a minute. It does not require line of sight or for you to even be close to the mob (like the Savant abilities, before they got fixed). It allows you to easily slip past even the largest number of mobs. Be careful about bumping into them, though, or they'll aggro on you after they've killed the charmed mob.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cOBiwU4wt0

    It can be tempting to join the fray and drop a few mobs, but ask yourself this: what do you gain by doing that?

    ...besides a shadow charge, that is. Assassinate a mob if there's one you can safely kill (usually an archer/caster) to get your shadow charge back. If you're not a rogue and don't have Assassinate, then tough luck because I advise against DPSing down a mob while using Shadow Manipulation. Get your charge back on an isolated mob.

    SM is also great for clearing out rooms that need to be cleared out.

    Summons

    Like Shadow Manipulation, except not as good. The spell summons that you can get from scrolls will only last a few seconds against epic mobs, but this can be enough for you to slip by.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S7fMgX8NC4

    The best summons are ones that use ranged/magic attacks, as they will displace mobs the greastest. It doesn't really matter what summon you use for it: they'll all die at roughly the same speed.

    Except for the Dryad Elder summon, however she requires a lvl4 twist. She can surivive for a couple more seconds against epic elite mobs, and can last for a good period of time without aid against lesser mobs.

    And then there's the Tharaak Hound summon, the most powerful summon (and also, by far, the hardest to get). This thing is a juggernaut, and is absolute overkill if you only want to distract the mobs momentarily. If you do actually have this beast, I would save him for required/boss fights.

    Invis Pulling

    The poor-man's version of noisemakers, this is the quickest way to move mobs around.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC7jwAygRnA

    This functions similarly to Noisemakers, however it's a bit riskier and backfires when mobs with See Invisibility are present. At any rate, if you don't have rogue levels you'd better learn how to do this.

    Projectile Collision

    When a projectile, i.e. and arrow or a throwing weapon, hits a surface, it makes a sound that attracts mobs, allowing you to move them around at a range. To do this, turn off auto-target (press G) so that you don't accidentally hit anything, turn on mouselook (press T or press the mouse wheel) and fire away. Don't hit the mob, just hit the surface near them.

    Fascinate

    This ability, which is exclusive to bards (or HElfs with a bard dillettante, though you won't achieve a very good DC), is the ultimate "roflstomp" button for Stealth. It allows you to disable all enemies around you, allowing you open doors, pull levers and loot chests in total safety. While it does aggro the mobs, by the time they're free to move you'll be long gone (you do lose stealth points for aggroing so many mobs, though. What are stealth points? I dunno lol).

    This ability alone is what makes Bards great at stealth. Just about as good as rogues, honestly.

    The Basic Method

    There are two ways you can approach a given group of mobs:

    -Sneak past them
    -Fight them (don't do this)

    Always, if possible, go for the first option. Most groups of mobs can simply be snuck past without having to move them around, but if not, use one of your abilities to distract them so you can get by.

    Option two should only ever be done if absolutely necessary, e.g. boss fights, "kill these mobs to open door," etc. If this is the case, I recommend bluff pulling and/or Shadow Manipulation. For bluff pulling, make sure you have a good "Kill Zone" where you can safely 1v1 a mob without any other mobs noticing you. Assassins are most efficient at killing mobs with bluff pulling.

    You can also use ranged weapons to pull mobs individually. Prior to u17, hitting one mob with a ranged weapon would also alert its friends, but not anymore. I personally don't think this is WAI, so I don't do it. What else is not WAI is being able to Assassinate mobs without aggroing surrounding mobs. IF YOU DO THIS YOUR BODY WILL ROT FROM THE INSIDE OUT DUE TO A CURSE SET UPON YOU BY THE STEALTH GODS. Seriously, it is baby mode for stealth and you will lose all your honor points for doing it.

    Good Quests for Practicing Your Stealth

    Most of these quests can be completed with only the required kills(of which there are few):-Fathom the Depths (Red Fens)
    -Claw of Vulkoor (Red Fens)
    -Cry for Help (Gianthold)
    -Bargain of Blood (Sentinels)
    -Trial by Fire (Gianthold) (yup, even with the spiders. Deal with spiders as you would bluff pulled mobs)
    -Chains of Flame (Sands)
    -Haywire Foundry (VON)
    -The Tide Turns (Sentinels)
    -House of Death Undone (Eveningstar)
    -The Chamber of Raiyum (Sands) (protip: use charmed undead to kill Raiyum and required mobs)
    -The Unquiet Graves (Eveningstar)
    -The House of Broken Chains (Eveningstar)
    -Servants of the Overlord (Web of Chaos)
    -Trial by Fury (Demonweb)
    -Numerous low-level quests. Suggest some!
    --Stealthy Repossession (Harbor)
    --Monastery of the Scorpion (Reaver's Refuge)
    --Blockade Buster (Attack on Stormreach)
    --A New Invasion
    --Sins of Attrition

    And that's my guide. Feel free to add your own tips. I will add some "putting it all together" videos later of me running quests alone.

    BY THE WAY, PARTY STEALTHING IS FUN.
    Last edited by Qezuzu; 08-21-2013 at 10:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Cool guide!

  3. #3
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Where's the section on sneak-humping?

  4. #4
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Two quips.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    This guide is meant for Rogue characters, but is useful for any class. The major differences between Rogue stealth and other stealth is that Rogues have Assassinate and Noisemakers.
    Rogues can choose to have assassinate. Which if you are going to stealth, it is wise to do so given the tremendous synergy. The way you stated it, it sounded like an auto grant.

    Anyone can have noisemakers so long as they have the Trapfinding class ablity (lvl 1 rogue and arti) and the Trapmaking feat. Rogues and Artificers are granted this as a class feat at lvl 4, other wise a character can meet the pre reqs and take it. (Yes I know. It is not optimal to do so, and no I don't know any that bother myself.)
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Trapmaking

    Actually... as far as the noisemakers go, can't anyone use them? You just have to meet the pre reqs to make them?


    The second, Hide in Plain Sight is also a lvl 17 ranger ablity, not just an Epic Destiny ablity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    Numerous low-level quests (suggest some)
    Stealthy Repossession?
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Stealthy_Repossession

    *guide bookmarked*
    Last edited by Missing_Minds; 07-02-2013 at 01:59 PM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Rusty_Can's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    The 12-point penalty for not having H/MS is something that should be avoided: take a splash in monk, rogue, ranger, etc if you can.
    Not necessarily: some classes have other means to buff up their "stealth" and make up for Hide and MS not being class skills.

    Druids can cast "Pass without trace" and "Spiderskin" spells, which provide enhancement bonuses to MS and Hide; as a side note, both spells are not self-only but can target allies.

    Shroud of the Wraith provides +20 bonus to MS.

    Rangers can help less stealthy party-members, casting "Mass Camouflage" (+10 circumstance bonus to Hide skill) and "Pass without trace".

    Btw, this is an old video, from when the level cap was still 14 (16?) .... still inspiring thou
    On Thelanis: Hallelujah (Spellsinger) - Jerryrigged Juggernaut (caster FvS) - Sepulchral (Druid) - Chopchopchop (Warlock) - Alleyshadow (retired gimped monkcher). Formerly on Keeper : Misericordia (Thug) - Mumbo Jumbo (Battle Caster) - Infernal Can (WF Kinda Cleric) - Halleluyah (Melee Spellsinger).

  6. #6
    The Hatchery
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Rogues can choose to have assassinate. Which if you are going to stealth, it is wise to do so given the tremendous synergy. The way you stated it, it sounded like an auto grant.
    Assassinate is an ability that is exclusive to Rogues is what I was trying to say. I never stated it was an autogrant, just that you need to be a rogue to have it.

    At any rate, I still believe that even Acrobat/Mechanic rogues are better than other classes at stealth (except possibly Bards).

    Anyone can have noisemakers so long as they have the Trapfinding class ablity (lvl 1 rogue and arti) and the Trapmaking feat. Rogues and Artificers are granted this as a class feat at lvl 4, other wise a character can meet the pre reqs and take it. (Yes I know. It is not optimal to do so, and no I don't know any that bother myself.)
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Trapmaking

    Actually... as far as the noisemakers go, can't anyone use them? You just have to meet the pre reqs to make them?
    Edited that section.

    Using Noisemakers does require the trapmaking feat.

  7. #7
    Community Member Bladedge's Avatar
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    Quest: Blockade Buster
    HEY, I'M TRYING TO SOLVE THAT!
    STOP TOUCHING MY PUZZLE!
    TOUCH MY PUZZLE ONE MORE TIME AND YOU'LL BE SORRY!
    PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS GAME -- I QUIT! AND YOU SHALL DIE!

  8. #8
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    Welcome to The Advanced Stealth Guide
    Great post! Thanks for sharing, +1!
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  9. #9
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
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    ya really nice stuff. Been playing 4 years and never even heard of a noisemaker. Wish I had tho. Great guide and shows why ddo is so cool. Many different ways to get things done.

  10. #10
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Where's the section on sneak-humping?
    well because last time i checked i actually think its something that can get you banned. i know there is something about it from a dev somewhere.

  11. #11
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Grr it is not easy to get a 90 at all. First, of all OP your post is not 90 but an 85. Second, you have the form which only comes in shadow dancer for +20 which means that to sneak you have to be a shadowdancer. Finally, you twist in +6 for stealthy or have stealthy. I am not sure your threshold numbers for sneak on epic elite are correct either? What do you base that on?
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

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    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    I find Garisson's and Sunken Sewer to be excellent practice dungeons.

    Garrison's has a couple Oozes, which I think is easier just to go ahead and kill. And five required kills in the last room.

    It is possible to do Garrison's without agroing any Kobolds. Including killing the end boss, but the Kobolds in the last room also need to die to finish the quest. (So I guess technically, you need to agro the last four Kobolds.. but no others need be agroed if you are real good.)

    Bonus points for sneaking past Furor if he spawns.



    Try lowering the bridge in Sunken Sewer without getting agro. (also getting across the bridge unseen is difficult.)
    The end boss can be killed without agroing the Scorpians, but the Scorpians have to be killed to open the chest....


    Both of these quests are far more forgiving than Stealthy Repo, if you mess up. (and I think can be done with a lower MS score, since few Oranged Named Shamen.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  13. #13
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
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    OOB is good practice quest, or challenge for the experienced sneaky players.
    It can be done with only a few kills.
    Cannith
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    Valyria - Hulkie - Sillymilly - Killberry - Silvyanna - Walour - Corgak - Thalrian-1

  14. #14
    Community Member parowan's Avatar
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    Very nice guide Qezuzu. Remember back when doing a full sneak + traps of eClaw was a big deal for us R.O.G.U.E.ers? Then they broke stealth and invis and I've really gotten out of the habit of stealthy play, even tho it's fixed now. That and zerging is just so much more ... efficient in terms of time. Stealthy repo being the classic example. Although I will say this: especially when solo (or if you can convince your party) there are many situations where some patience for stealthy play will actually lead to quicker completions than standing around beating on meatsacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    You can also use ranged weapons to pull mobs individually. Prior to u17, hitting one mob with a ranged weapon would also alert its friends, but not anymore. I personally don't think this is WAI, so I don't do it. What else is not WAI is being able to Assassinate mobs without aggroing surrounding mobs. IF YOU DO THIS YOUR BODY WILL ROT FROM THE INSIDE OUT DUE TO A CURSE SET UPON YOU BY THE STEALTH GODS. Seriously, it is baby mode for stealth and you will lose all your honor points for doing it.
    I agree with the ranged attack, but don't feel as strongly about the assassinate as you do. The surrounding mobs DO investigate, just as if they had heard something. I'm just arrogant enough to think it's unremarkable if I sneak up to a group of mobs, put a knife in one's back, and sneak away, leaving the rest of them shocked, bewildered, furious, unable to figure out who just killed their buddy, and not knowing if the next knife will be aimed at their backs. Is it unrealistic? Perhaps, but so is invisibility, shadow form, and much of the other sneaking involved in stealth play.

    Other good quests:
    A new invasion
    Sins of Attrition
    Trial by fury

    In fact, I like to farm the locked chest on trial by fury even without completing the quest. Sneaking into the demon's home, stealing his hidden locked, treasure, and then just leaving, has a nice rewarding stealthy feel to it. Like back in the days when we weren't politically correct about it and just called ourselves thieves instead of rogues. Especially on a +2 loot weekend! Other stealthy chest farms include ADQ1, Haywire, Prisoner, and Don't drink the water. Shadowdancer makes this so quick and easy.

    I also like to be stealthy in wilderness areas. Especially farming chests in epic gianthold. Skip the mobs. Only chests and red names are worth your time.

    Also, one point in favor of monks that I think you left out in your comparison: abundant step can be very useful in stealthy play, and the cooldown on jetboots is 10 long minutes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Grr it is not easy to get a 90 at all. First, of all OP your post is not 90 but an 85. Second, you have the form which only comes in shadow dancer for +20 which means that to sneak you have to be a shadowdancer.
    I included Shadow Form because, honestly, Shadowdancer is the best Destiny for Stealth. Not just for the massive +20 bonus, but also for the insanely powerful Shadow Manipulation and a few other tricks such as the DDoor clickie, 100% dodge clickie and Sneak Freedom.

    All other destinies are mostly focus on DPS, defense, healing and/or spellcasting. Shadowdancer is the only one that has meaningful abilities for stealth. At any rate, you can use any destiny and stealth just fine, I simply believe Shadowdancer is the best choice.

    Also, a few other sources of H/MS:

    +6 Greensteel Item
    +5 Enhancement Bonus (Epic Mirror Cloak, Ghostly Items)
    +2 or +5 Epic Ring of Shadows
    Higher DEX

    I am not sure your threshold numbers for sneak on epic elite are correct either? What do you base that on?
    I base that threshold on my own experiences with sneaking. No, you're not going to be instantly spotted if you have a lower score, but the higher your score the more breathing room you have. You have a lower chance of being spotted, can stand in a mob's Line Of Sight longer without getting detected, and can get closer behind them.

    It also does depend on what quests you're running. In Epic Fens and Carnival I can get away with as low as 65, but in eGH I advise an absolute minimum of 80.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by parowan View Post
    Very nice guide Qezuzu. Remember back when doing a full sneak + traps of eClaw was a big deal for us R.O.G.U.E.ers? Then they broke stealth and invis and I've really gotten out of the habit of stealthy play, even tho it's fixed now. That and zerging is just so much more ... efficient in terms of time. Stealthy repo being the classic example. Although I will say this: especially when solo (or if you can convince your party) there are many situations where some patience for stealthy play will actually lead to quicker completions than standing around beating on meatsacks.
    I miss R.O.G.U.E. People simply stopped posting in the thread. And now with the forum change the Rogue subforum is as dead as ever.

    Stealth is not always efficient, but I find it fun. It's just a shame that people don't use it as much. Even something as simple as bluff pulling the one, singular mob that we need to kill we don't need to kill the rest is too much to ask for a lot of PUGs.

    Someday I'd like to try a full, 6-man party of only stealthy players, but I can't find that many people on my server.

    I agree with the ranged attack, but don't feel as strongly about the assassinate as you do. The surrounding mobs DO investigate, just as if they had heard something. I'm just arrogant enough to think it's unremarkable if I sneak up to a group of mobs, put a knife in one's back, and sneak away, leaving the rest of them shocked, bewildered, furious, unable to figure out who just killed their buddy, and not knowing if the next knife will be aimed at their backs. Is it unrealistic? Perhaps, but so is invisibility, shadow form, and much of the other sneaking involved in stealth play.
    I don't like it because it's extremely easy.

    Also, one point in favor of monks that I think you left out in your comparison: abundant step can be very useful in stealthy play, and the cooldown on jetboots is 10 long minutes.
    Good point.

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    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Just a point - not a stealth person myself - but I would suggest a short list of the types of mobs that have tremor sense or like undead sensing the living and thus a different 'sighting' pattern and or mobs that inherently have true seeing (more of an issue for those using invis to aid their sneaking

    ie. Earth ellies, spiders, oozes, tharahk hounds for tremor sense types, beholders for true seeing etc...
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    I've not tried it, but couldn't an artificer's dog be used to distract/move mobs around, maybe combined with invisibility? They can be called and dismissed at will, directed at targets, pull levers, break crates, etc. Far better control than with a charmed mob or summons. Dismiss it before it gets attacked and you have a re-usable controllable noise-maker.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonwelder View Post
    Just a point - not a stealth person myself - but I would suggest a short list of the types of mobs that have tremor sense or like undead sensing the living and thus a different 'sighting' pattern and or mobs that inherently have true seeing (more of an issue for those using invis to aid their sneaking

    ie. Earth ellies, spiders, oozes, tharahk hounds for tremor sense types, beholders for true seeing etc...
    Spiders and Oozes have Tremor Sense (note that I do not think Driders have tremor sense… and maybe not See Invis either…..)

    Dread Wraiths in the Orchard have Life Sense (may work identical to Tremor Sense) (these are the only type of wraith or other undead that have any special senses… that I can think of.)

    Bats and Tharask Hounds have Blindsense (the hounds have batlike faces and I think are suppose to be blind and use hearing to see.

    Bats may have 360 degree hearing/blindsense, but I believe the hounds actually can be snuck by if you are behind them. (I may be wrong though)

    I do not believe that Beholders have any special senses other than 360 degree vision and auto-detect zones.

    I do not believe that Earth Ellies have tremor sense (although it seems like they would…) Almost positive I have snuck by them… often….

    Most Giants can See Invis. I believe every giant that can cast spells of some sort has See Invis… as a general rule.

    Drow and Dueger(sp) can See Invis.

    Most Reavers/Flensers can See Invis.

    Bezakira(sp) can See Invis.

    Also worth noting… caster type monsters.. especially named ones have high Spot/Listen skills. Some of them buff with True Seeing or See Invis when agroed. Or have precast maybe… it seems that Fiendish Trog Shamen in the Vale can See Invis.. But I am not 100% sure. I think some Hobgoblin Shamen buff themselves with True Seeing when agroed… but again… not positive about this..
    (I really need to go find out for sure before I type on the forums… sorry….) (But… anyone can test this stuff if they want to…..)

    I believe all Purple named bosses always know where you are. (if you are in range)

    Many Red named end bosses also cannot be snuck by. (but I think this was not always true)

    Another note: many monsters spawn when you get to a certain spot.. regardless of whether or not they actually detect you…. But many spawn practically right on top of you… and thus you get seen by bein gin their auto-detect zone…. (many others spawn and run fast toward you… and end up bumping into you… making them difficult to sneak by as well.)

    Many monsters do not have any special means of detecting you, but hide so well that you will most likely bump into them.

    Tremor Sense also seems to include the ability to see anything in front of themselves… which is rarely important….but….

    Special movements like Abundant Step do not appear to cause sound…. Or tremors….. (but read the line above this one. )

    I am not sure, but I think the new epic Dragons in Giant Hold and FoT cannot be snuck by or hid from…… May not apply to all Dragons…. For one thing it is possible to steal gold from the first Green Dragon in the King’s Forest and get away with it.

    That’s all I can think of right now.. didn’t intend this to be so long….
    Sorry that some information is speculation and educated guesses…. Also might be not up to date.

    Use at your own risk.



    Edit: Oh, and at Red Dungeon Alert, everything has See Invis. (plus they move fast... making sneaking very difficult....)
    Last edited by Talon_Moonshadow; 07-05-2013 at 03:56 PM.
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    +1
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