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  1. #1
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    Question New to the game, a question on the importance of proper builds

    Hey all. So this is my first time playing DDO after having caught the D&D bug in recent years.

    I've been doing a bit of research into class builds and I have to admit that I'm starting to get intimidated after reading a few phrases like "anything less is a waste of a character slot" and "impossible to make X build without Y points" and "being useless to your group".

    Is min/maxing really that important to surviving in a group? Will I be doomed to be shunned from veteran/older groups just by nature of not having a proper build? Am I just overthinking things and will probably have fun if I choose any preset path? Is it possible not to re-read this paragraph in a 1930's radio announcer voice?

    Any tips and advice is appreciated and thanks in advance.

    edit: ...yeah I just noticed the new player forum now. Uh, someone should probably move this (although for the record, yes I did create my first character on Sarlona)
    Last edited by Doomneto; 07-01-2013 at 11:59 PM.

  2. #2
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    Many forum min-maxers mean "...in Epic Elite", or "...in Raids" when they say you need a maxed out build.

    A really terrible build will get you shunned, but you'd probably have to purposely make it bad.

    The preset paths aren't that great, but OK for while you are learning.

    If not going preset, I'd suggest always taking at least 14 Con and Toughness (and toughness enhancements). Hit Points are one area that you might get judged on.

    Be careful when picking build off the forums. Some are designed to be only good at Epic level. Not good for a beginner.

    Geoff.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomneto View Post
    Hey all. So this is my first time playing DDO after having caught the D&D bug in recent years.

    I've been doing a bit of research into class builds and I have to admit that I'm starting to get intimidated after reading a few phrases like "anything less is a waste of a character slot" and "impossible to make X build without Y points" and "being useless to your group".

    Be aware that many posters here are vet players. all with good gear and knowledge. So take everything with a grain of salt.

    Is min/maxing really that important to surviving in a group? Will I be doomed to be shunned from veteran/older groups just by nature of not having a proper build? Am I just overthinking things and will probably have fun if I choose any preset path? Is it possible not to re-read this paragraph in a 1930's radio announcer voice?

    It's kinda important for end game, yes. I define end game as EEs and EH/ EE raids. TBH, it will take you a few good months to reach that anyway.
    There is a steep learning curve in this game. (<--- this is a good thing. Keeps things interesting). You are on the right path in asking and reading the forums.


    Any tips and advice is appreciated and thanks in advance.
    My Advice:
    1. Pick something you think you will enjoy playing. Maybe something close to something you played in a previous game. Every class has something good about it. (But don't choose barbarian as first class to play...).
    2. Read and just play a lot. There is no substitute for experience and knowledge.
    3. Don't hesitate to say in a group: "hey all, first time for me...".
    4. Don't get insulted if you get kicked from an "uber" group, by "elitest" players. They are not necessarily bad, they just might not be in the mood to teach you. Or they want to zerg (go quickly) through the quest.
    5. Don't worry about "Elite streaks". This might not be easy, because many players like to only play on Elite, but there are plenty of people more than happy to run Hards and Normals. Find some other newer players to run with.
    5.1 If you post an LFM (Looking For More - the grouping panel in Social) for Elite, people will expect you to know it. Nothing more annoying than a new player posting Elites. But you can certainly put one up for Hard or Normal. Do it.
    6. Enjoy the quests; there are many very very cool and beautifully done quests. Look around the first few times you run them.
    7. Join a middle level guild. say 55-65.
    8. Ask for some cash from a guildy. Use the Auction House (AH) to get some better gear. Don't worry about "named" items yet.

    HAVE FUN!
    ~~ Adrunil - Rogue. Halfling, big guy you can't miss him. ~~
    ~~ Adrunel - Monkcher. (Moncher?) ~~
    Robodoc - FvS Evoker-Healer. Post 19: Ended up LRing into 13/7 forc
    Orien server.

  4. #4
    Community Member Zillee's Avatar
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    Don't worry about getting kicked from a group. Just make sure you've read the LFM and if it sounds like its going to be a mad race through the quest at elite difficulty, avoid it until you feel confident. Likely you wouldn't mess their quest up or get kicked, but you may not enjoy it much due to getting left behind/lost/not knowing what's going on. I've only seen players kicked a few times in three years because of their build - and it was usually because of intolerant attitudes by noobish PuG leaders. Meh, every game has its jerks

    If you're thinking of using a premade path, check out this thread - https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...or-new-players
    It's an old thread - and the links in the first post don't work anymore! But all the builds are in the first few pages. Basically its the premade paths with a bit of tweaking - and a gentle intro to building a character.

    Quite likely by the time you hit lvl 8 or thereabouts, you'll get the feel for whether or not you want to reroll or stick with your toon. Don't worry about building for end game. Just enjoy playing the game You can start to work on being uber and fabulous when you've got a good grasp of the basics. Remember to have fun

  5. #5
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    First, don't stress things too much. Many people are alright with new players as long as they try to improve, as you obviously are by posting here. I personally never boot someone out of my groups simply for being a new player.

    Anyway, I have a couple basics on making a decent newbie build: Note that a lot of what I am recommending below are only the simplest ways to make an effective build. Once you get the hang of the game, feel free to stray from this guide.

    It's hard to go wrong with a pure class build. They may or may not be the top builds, but you won't get shunned purely by your class split, they work (for most classes) pretty well at all level ranges, provided you are not doing an unusual role like paladin crossbow user (I wouldn't recommend that build to anyone ) or something. You can try a multiclass, but you should have it planned out before you make your character, and it's easier to go wrong for a new player.

    You also can't go wrong with human race, they have no drawbacks and their main benefits fit every class (+1 to two ability scores, amplification to incoming healing, and an extra feat). All the other races are perfectly viable, it's just that you can go wrong a bit more easily since most of the other races are tuned to work better with some builds and worse with others. So just take human if you can't make up your mind otherwise.

    When you look at your enhancements, you will see a "Show unavailable" box. Click on it, and look for where you see "<Class>: Prestige Enhancement" Some classes will have several different lines of prestige enhancements, some only one, but you will only be able to take one line per class. Aim to take one of them. In fact, I don't know a single veteran player who skips prestige enhancements altogether. Most prestige enhancements have a good 3-5 prerequisites that may include other enhancements or feats, hover over the enhancement to see what they are. Note you won't get your first tier of a prestige enhancement until level 6 (later if multiclassed, then it will be whatever class you first get at least 6 levels), so you have a bit of time to work toward it.

    A couple key feats that are nice to have:

    All builds:
    • Toughness, but only once. It will unlock a series of enhancements to get even more HP off of.


    Melee DPS:
    • Improved critical for whatever weapon type you prefer (also applies to ranged weapon users)
    • Power attack (melee) or precision (ranged, as well as melee rogues)
    • Either the Two Handed Fighting line (so improved and greater 2 handed fighting as well) or the Two Weapon Fighting line.

    Note for that last point, tank builds are difficult for beginners, so you're better off aiming for more DPS using either 2 weapons or a single big weapon, don't build for a shield until you get the basics down. Part of it is tanks need to be defensive in many ways while keeping worthwhile DPS to keep the monsters on them. You still want to build for some defenses on a melee, such as PRR (physical resistance rating), incoming healing amplification, and Damage Reduction, but don't go all out like a true tank build does. In general, you probably only want to mess with Armor class if you're a tank, and that's mainly what shields are good for.

    Caster:
    • Maximize spell
    • Empower spell (save this for high levels, when you have the SP to nuke away better, maximize alone is enough at low level)
    • Heighten spell (save this for high levels, when you have more spell levels to heighten to)
    • Quicken spell- means reliable heals. If you cannot heal yourself (for example, non-warforged sorcerer build), this is less useful
    • Clerics need Empower Heal Spell to qualify for their only prestige enhancement. You might want it on favored soul too.

    I know what you're probably thinking here. 5 metamagics means you'll burn through SP like crazy, right?

    Well, there's a trick. If you put a spell on your hotbar, and right click on it, you can toggle the metamagics to be permanently on or off. Heighten and Quicken are useful feats, but you only want them to apply to certain spells.

    The former, only spells that have a significant difference whether or not a saving throw is made. If you're short on SP, don't use it on spells where the saving throw just halves damage. Use it for spells like Slay Living; if the enemy fails the save, they die, if not, only a bit of damage. That's a big difference between instant death and low-to-moderate damage, so that's a spell you want to heighten so the enemy saves as little as possible.

    For Quicken Spell, you only want to quicken the spells you use in combat. And at that, it's probably more efficient to let the occasional offensive spell fail due to interruption than quicken all of them. So you mainly want to quicken your strongest healing spell, so you have it for those "oh sh**!" moments, because if you get into one of those moments, not only is it essential your healing goes off, but you're likely to be taking more damage than usual that will interrupt your spell. Also, you'll want to quicken some spells that take a few seconds to cast, most egregious example probably being druid's Reincarnate, which probably takes a good 8-10 seconds or so to cast. Quicken it, and you halve that time, quite useful.

    Basically, you'll learn what spells you want the metamagic to apply to and which ones you don't.

  6. #6
    Community Member Uidolon's Avatar
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    i often read those min-max builds then read the equipment they have already and then think to myself build a gimp with all that equipment and hed still dominate compared to 95% of the playerbase just from his equipment.

    think there is a certain elegance to making abuild that can do well with low equipment reqs but often if you want to do many things well you need lot and lots of equipment

  7. #7
    Community Member spectroum's Avatar
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    Its certainly fun to play DDo for the first time and explore your way through quests with a nice character. What many ppl said about grouping with others and such will help you a lot so try to keep those in mind.

    Now whatever race,class you choose to begin with you just have to consider some things especially when you create a character. I'll just give you some hints about classes

    Melee classes (like fighter,barbarian,paladin)
    your main focus is on dps (damage-per-second) so you need max STR and items to raise your attack/dmg. Also high enough CON and hp items and feats to keep your hp high enough.
    Caster classes (like wizard,sorcerer)
    your main focus here is dps again but with spells so as mentioned above you will need metamagic feats and also max INT/CHA (depending if you choose wiz or sorc) so you can aim for high DCs for your spells and also high SP. Also max CON since you dont need any other stat besides those 2. Itemwise you will need hp,sp items and weapons that raise your chosen element for spell damage (eg +35 combustion raises the damage of your fire spells).
    Special classes (like rogue,bard)
    this is getting tricky now as you can do many thing with such classes. As a rogue you will need also INT and trap skills (search,spot,disable device,open lock) so you need to focus there too. As a bard you will need also CHA and sp items.

    My advice is to chose a combo of race,class after you realise yourself what you like playing and then take some time reading in forums and DDOwiki about them so you can minimize any mistakes you might do in the process. Also if you find someone who has a build similar to what you want to play then ask him some questions and get any useful feedback.

    I know that all of us here mention about a lot of stuff that you need to keep in mind so take your time to study

    Oh and welcome to DDO
    Gimpfest
    Gorlacon 6th life BF Assassin ~ Gyristroula 6th life Human Disciple of Light ~ Reepz 5th life PDK Kensei ~ Gorlaxz 5th life BF Pala
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  8. #8
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    Wow, thanks for all the quick and informative replies everyone.

    Before I downloaded the game, I wanted to toy around with playing with either a Paladin or Ranger, since those are the two classes I play most often in tabletop games, and have played in previous Bioware D&D rpg's.

    I'm definitely feeling less intimidated waking up now than I did when I was reading up on the game in the past few days.

  9. #9
    Community Member Rusty_Can's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomneto View Post
    Wow, thanks for all the quick and informative replies everyone.
    DDOWiki can help quite a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doomneto View Post
    I wanted to toy around with playing with either a Paladin or Ranger, since those are the two classes I play most often in tabletop games, and have played in previous Bioware D&D rpg's.
    Rangers usually make beginner-friendly characters:
    - bucketloads of free feats;
    - by lvl 11, they get the full Two Weapon Fighting line and all the feats needed to use effectively archery; i.e. you can experiment with melee and ranged combat;
    - plenty of skill points;
    - self-healing capable;
    - blend very well with rogue levels and, thus, easily able to handle traps.

    As for paladins, they make very survivable characters, but they are quite feat-starved.

    As a side note, some major changes are supposed to hit live servers in a couple of months.
    On Thelanis: Hallelujah (Spellsinger) - Jerryrigged Juggernaut (caster FvS) - Sepulchral (Druid) - Chopchopchop (Warlock) - Alleyshadow (retired gimped monkcher). Formerly on Keeper : Misericordia (Thug) - Mumbo Jumbo (Battle Caster) - Infernal Can (WF Kinda Cleric) - Halleluyah (Melee Spellsinger).

  10. #10
    Community Member Zillee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomneto View Post
    ... Before I downloaded the game, I wanted to toy around with playing with either a Paladin or Ranger, since those are the two classes I play most often in tabletop games, and have played in previous Bioware D&D rpg's.
    This is a good ranger build for those starting out. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ghlight=ranger

    For Paladins, this is a great overview/guide - https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ating-Paladins

  11. #11
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I think the best advice I can give a new player is that you should make your first character assuming that it won't be the same character you're playing 6 months from now or a year from now. I'm not suggesting that it's a complete throwaway, just don't get it in your head that it will be min-max, best dps, better than everything else ever made.

    Basically, make your first character to learn the early game. Get the mechanics down and get a handle on the basics. After you have a mental breakdown of how the game works, your second character will be your own take on how to do things "right".

    I'd say stick with a pure class off the start. If you plan on soloing for a while, pick a class with some melee capability. If you're going to be grouping, any class is a safe way to go.

    By the time you get to endgame, the "right" class for you might not be the class/build you thought it would be from the start. If you jump right in with an advanced build, you probably won't have the gear or metagame understanding to make it work to it's maximum potential. You start making compromises on the build in order to make it work for you, when you should be doing it the other way and working your way into the build.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  12. #12
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomneto View Post
    Wow, thanks for all the quick and informative replies everyone.

    Before I downloaded the game, I wanted to toy around with playing with either a Paladin or Ranger, since those are the two classes I play most often in tabletop games, and have played in previous Bioware D&D rpg's.

    I'm definitely feeling less intimidated waking up now than I did when I was reading up on the game in the past few days.
    Just remember the biggest tip is to have fun. Don't let anyone in game or in the forums ruin this for you. It doesn't matter what they say. if you're not having fun in the game what's the point. always tell people you're new. it will get you a lot farther then saying nothing. ask people questions. Talking will really earn you a lot farther then not.

  13. #13
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    Just wanted to welcome you Doomneto. Hope you have lots of fun playing DDO!
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
    Submit DDO Bugs through: ddobugs.turbine.com
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  14. #14
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    Best advice I can give is that any build - any build at all - can make it to level 20. And once you're level 20, with epic destinies, you can make it to level cap. "Better" builds just make it happen faster; much, much faster in some cases. But when you're just learning the game that doesn't really matter at all anyway.

    So look over your choices, have fun, and once you're comfortable in how the game plays out and what abilities you wish your character had, you can redesign/start a new character if you have to. I still play my first character - but I TR'd him to take out all the annoying mistakes I made once I realized what I wanted him to be.

    Welcome to Sarlona!

  15. #15
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    Just remember the biggest tip is to have fun. Don't let anyone in game or in the forums ruin this for you. It doesn't matter what they say. if you're not having fun in the game what's the point. always tell people you're new. it will get you a lot farther then saying nothing. ask people questions. Talking will really earn you a lot farther then not.

    This type of information is often overlooked and needs to be repeated!

    I would much rather have someone that is playing the game and having FUN in my groups then any min/max player stating how awesome he is and everyone else is gimp if they are not built the same way.

    Play to have fun and you will never be disappointed!

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  16. #16
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Just wanted to welcome you Doomneto. Hope you have lots of fun playing DDO!
    I didn't get a welcome message! I demand one, lest I stab you! *Waves Deathnip threateningly*

    @OP Don't worry about getting kicked from groups. It happens, and it's disgraceful if you ask me. People should be more tolerant, after all, they dealt with me! (Biggest gimp on Thelanis)

    I agree with what everyone else said. Ask questions, state you're new. If you do that in one of my groups (I'm not on Sarlona, hah!) I'll go out of my way to help you. Gear, pots, hires (I'm not fussed at those levels), advice, you name it, I'll try get it for you

    If I can give you one piece of advice, it's just have fun. The rest will fall into place, given time. If you want a build, post under the class sections, take a link provided, or use a pre-set. All will work, though pre-set needs to be rebuilt imo.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomneto View Post
    Hey all. So this is my first time playing DDO [...]
    Welcome!

    Is min/maxing really that important to surviving in a group? [...] yes I did create my first character on Sarlona)
    Not really. People are probably talking about Elite or Epic Elite. Each character has strengths and weaknesses. Playing a superman or wonder-woman that min/max everything may not be as fun as you think it would be. What fun would it be if monsters got pwn'd by the character every time? No new tactics learned, no experience gained, no new stories or challenges. In the character bio is probably stated, "Monsters fear me. They automatically self destruct when this character is near"...

    Even superman has Krytonite in the movies and even James Bond has adversaries and problems that he cannot solve alone.
    Last edited by Tyrande; 07-02-2013 at 10:26 AM.

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

  18. #18
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    Thanks again for all of the helpful and friendly replies.

    I'm no stranger to gameplay challenges, so it's definitely not one of my goals to have a super-kill-everything build of any one class. I do like story. I do like a little bit of RP once in a while. I do like to take my time.

    Looking forward to adventuring here soon.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomneto View Post
    Thanks again for all of the helpful and friendly replies.

    I'm no stranger to gameplay challenges, so it's definitely not one of my goals to have a super-kill-everything build of any one class. I do like story. I do like a little bit of RP once in a while. I do like to take my time.

    Looking forward to adventuring here soon.
    Just a heads up... People who have run through the game 2,3,4 or more times before (with true reincarnations, referred frequently to having past lifes of x y or z and tr as the process) are going to be walking around a lot better than you by default.

    Moreover, they are often packing equip there is no way for you to get, such as greensteal equip. Even if the people you are gaming with are friendly and super nice, it can be extremely discouraging to group with them as you see the rather large differences in efficiency. Plus, you have the noob, which doesn't help.

    Even worse, things that seem like great ideas may not come to fruition for a loooooooooooong time, like mixing prestige classes, which may put you at level 18 before they really jell.

    Lastly, if you played a lot of pnp dnd, forget it all. While on the surface this seems to look like dnd you would already know, it really isn't. Some feat or another that works great in pnp with a random dm could be horrific in game. Consider that every thing you fight is going to have hundreds of hps, starting very early in the game.

    Auctionhouse everything you get. Take your time and compare it to things already for sale, and try to work things accordingly. A good example would be:

    holy handwraps of lesser undead bane

    which are listed for more than 100k. On the surface, as a noob, you might say, oh its 2d6 +1d6 extra damage, but I don't need that because I have Y weapon already, and do something stupid like sell it or junk it for crafting materials -_-. Ask me, I know all about destroying what was actually really good equip early on without knowing it....

    Take your time. Cleric or Sorcerer (squishy or warforged) hirelings are your absolute BEST friends ever. Even if you group with other people, bring along one of these hirelings if there is room. HPs are unfortunately stupidly important. Things hit you HARD and fast. If you are walking around with 50 hps as a wizard thinking wow, 50 hps for a level 7 wizard is a LOT (pnp mentality), think again..... That is just recipe for dying lots and lots and lots and lots. As others have mentioned, toughness feat + hp enhancements are vital to not dying, which you should focus on.

  20. #20
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    This type of information is often overlooked and needs to be repeated!

    I would much rather have someone that is playing the game and having FUN in my groups then any min/max player stating how awesome he is and everyone else is gimp if they are not built the same way.

    Play to have fun and you will never be disappointed!
    yep i stand by this completely. I watched a guy in tempest spine talking about how he did this much damage and had 101 reflex but low dps. (2 different toons) Im just like ok um i really don't care. What does that have to do with having fun. Someone was asking some build questions at the time. he kept pointing them to min/maxing. I also pointed out if you do that for one you tend to rely on others to keep you up. Some need constant heals. That might not be a good toon to tell someone new.


    So yeah i would rather someone play a ranger/pally etc then a min/max person who might develop im better then you attitude. my toons might not hit as hard but i can usually self heal to a point and i still do pretty decent damage. So to me I'm having fun. Being the best can be fun just don't ruin it for others. imo of course. just how i feel.

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