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  1. #41
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    I look forward to the new enhancements. I'm not a min/maxer, so maybe I don't see the ultimate problem in not being able to, for example, heal as well on a DPS specced character after the enhancement pass as before. Maybe I'm just old school, but I feel people should be trading healing for damage and vice versa. I don't see why some classes needed to be proficient in everything that doesn't rely on feats due to how powerful the current Enhancement system is, and I don't understand why people are upset that the Enhancement Pass will basically make you choose a specialization rather than allowing you to continue being a jack of all trades.

    I feel the latter is better for the game's health, and people are probably just knee-jerking because it's a change and they lose the power they've had for so long.
    if you understood the game better you'd understand that the self-healing melees ALREADY SACRIFICE A TON OF DPS in order to get the self-healing.

    Read more, post less.

  2. #42
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdae View Post
    Nice assumption you made here.. I'm not one of the "ones that play whatever cookie-cut, min-max build is currently ruling Epics." I've just spent a lot of time in building my tank.. then I logged in Lama and saw what they did to DoS.. and my toon was screwed..

    I think I can be "angry"..
    Dude . . . if you're favorite toon was a DOS or Stalwart you have the right to be furious.

    But please . . . in the specific feedback thread post the details as to why it's terrible.

  3. #43
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    I look forward to the enhancement changes, and hope it comes with the xpac, as frankly, I am sick of waiting.

    There's a couple things I'd like them to change, but all in all, it's looking pretty interesting for the future.

    Even though you're making sprint boost into a lvl2 barb requirement and kinda making my current build broken; I will TR and fix that - well, unless you put sprint boost back to level 1

    Some of the new multiclass options look quite amazing, and kudos to the devs for adding SLA's to more casters (druids and clerics with free metas on their sla's, that's amazing, and makes me want to play a cleric for the first time ever)

    BRING IT ON, DEVS. MAKE IT LIVE TODAY

  4. #44
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post

    But please . . . in the specific feedback thread post the details as to why it's terrible.
    Turbine is like the boy that cried wolf to most of us. They've cried we want your feedback then done nothing so often, that now most of us are ready to get pitchforks and help the wolf instead.

  5. #45
    Community Member Danemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    if you understood the game better you'd understand that the self-healing melees ALREADY SACRIFICE A TON OF DPS in order to get the self-healing.

    Read more, post less.
    Hmm? So 10 AP on a character to get +80 Devotion spell power is a lot to sacrifice for a DPS specced bard, or ranger, or paladin, or even cleric or druid? Maybe I should've been more specific in what I was saying. /shrug. But what the hell do I know... it's not as if I didn't play a Warchanter in my first life.

  6. #46
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Turbine is like the boy that cried wolf to most of us. They've cried we want your feedback then done nothing so often, that now most of us are ready to get pitchforks and help the wolf instead.
    I am as big of a doom and gloomer as they come. but there are things in this game that were specifically my idea that came from Turbine asking for feedback.

    We won't get everything but something are changeable.

  7. #47
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danemoth View Post
    Hmm? So 10 AP on a character to get +80 Devotion spell power is a lot to sacrifice for a DPS specced bard, or ranger, or paladin, or even cleric or druid? Maybe I should've been more specific in what I was saying. /shrug. But what the hell do I know... it's not as if I didn't play a Warchanter in my first life.

    Just being a paladin or a ranger is the sacrifice. Any good player would know that.

  8. #48
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosbeak07 View Post
    ^^ This

    While there is still a lot of work to do on the details of the enhancements. In general your characters will be generally no worse or better than they currently are. I'm sure there will be some odd builds and flavor of the month builds which will get screwed over, but then again they don't call them Flavor of the month builds for nothing... or we would all be still evading in full plate and have Batman builds.
    This is one of those oft repeated mindless mantra's on the forums..."flavor of the month" builds...is a blanket term used to dismiss people who have builds which currently WORK WELL IN THE GAME. They are not some abstract strange build. They are often common builds up until the time when some random employee at Turbine decides they no longer like this build type or want to randomly change things around to make it feel like their own ideal design.

    Things like monk archer builds, crossbow heavy splash builds with 6 rogue for int to damage, and ANY GOOD SD player who knows that a shield should not be out all the time are just a few of the builds which are being devastated by this mess.
    Proud Recipient of At least 8 Negative Rep From NA Threads.
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  9. #49
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Things like monk archer builds, crossbow heavy splash builds with 6 rogue for int to damage, and ANY GOOD SD player who knows that a shield should not be out all the time are just a few of the builds which are being devastated by this mess.
    How are Monkchers hurt by this? Asking because as I don't play a full monk I haven't looked too deeply into this.

    And ALL SDs are killed by this.

  10. #50
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    How are Monkchers hurt by this? Asking because as I don't play a full monk I haven't looked too deeply into this.

    And ALL SDs are killed by this.
    The racial tree for helf kills the ability to put any points into anything other than helf and aa.

  11. #51
    Community Member blackdae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Dude . . . if you're favorite toon was a DOS or Stalwart you have the right to be furious.

    But please . . . in the specific feedback thread post the details as to why it's terrible.
    Dudette maybe? Does it exist?
    And she's not my favorite toon, I'm just sad I has been screwed up.. Btw, since MotU tanks are unusefull.. So I'll just wait for this AWSOME enhancements pass and see in what other class I can TR her.. before they erase in some way all my maxed EDs ò.ò

    Cheers

  12. #52
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    My feeling is that I actually like the new UI and it's features and it looks like it can expand easily.

    However, and I say this knowing that I didn't expect any of my characters to be the same going from what we currently have to the new system, I wasn't expecting that the Paladin Defender tree to be so lacking in offense (even burst offense). While I'm able to get 60 more in devotion and +10 more AC, to do so means no more exalted smites or Divine Might or Sacrifice or even Weapons of Good.

    So far the best I've come up with is a 39/41 split on enhancements (Loosing AC/PRR for DPS and Burst DPS) and doing this makes being a Half-Elf pointless as I do not have any points to spend in the racial trees.

    I even commented that the Defender Capstone is not desirable and in my opinion less desirable/Useful than the current Cleric Capstone Divine Intervention

    For me the Cleric changes made in the Beta were good and I can see many different paths I can take to flavor my cleric more to my liking.

    I understand (no first hand knowledge) that there are other trees where players feel they are lacking. But I like the General Direction and am just hoping that more adjustments are made to these trees.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Take this one as your first, then.

    I like the new enhancements. Period. If they were going to be released exactly as they are on Lamannia right now (obvious bugs aside, like having to close and reopen the enhancement windows now and again because your "points spent" freeze), I would say it is a net positive from what we have on live.

    Sure, some builds will die, but other builds will rise. This happened every time a new race, class, prestige class, level cap, or feat pack arrived. And also happened with the spell pass (U9) and AC pass (U14). And will happen again. And will keep happening as long as the game is online.
    Serious question: you think it's a GOOD thing that most class' healing is nerfed?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Take this one as your first, then.

    I like the new enhancements. Period. If they were going to be released exactly as they are on Lamannia right now (obvious bugs aside, like having to close and reopen the enhancement windows now and again because your "points spent" freeze), I would say it is a net positive from what we have on live.

    Sure, some builds will die, but other builds will rise. This happened every time a new race, class, prestige class, level cap, or feat pack arrived. And also happened with the spell pass (U9) and AC pass (U14). And will happen again. And will keep happening as long as the game is online.
    Main Characters: Amossa Lowbie, probably mid TR - Arquera Bardcher - Chapolin DEX based Rogue - Fabber Uncapped, ungeared cleric, possibly abandoned or else new - Herweg Sword + Board Fighter - Mecanico Lightly geared CON Sorc, looks to be abandoned - Tenma mid-TR Trap-Wizard
    Ah, I think I see why you like the changes. I mean, as long as the characters that you play the most, such as Assassins and Stalwart Defenders who never put the shield away, get interesting increases, then arcanes and divines can just go pound sand.
    Last edited by ForumAccess; 07-02-2013 at 03:46 PM.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    The EP IS an improvement, overall, because its going to make a LOT more builds viable.

    People that don't like it tend to be the ones that play whatever cookie-cut, min-max build is currently ruling Epics. Those builds ARE the ones that are going to stand to lose the most when things are "balanced", because they're the most unbalanced right now.
    This really is quite far from reality. Juggernaut type builds rely on core class abilities, not enhancements. They could very easily come out ahead on this, with some minor tweaks. Shiradi Spam is also very largely uneffected. A traditional Sorcerer takes a bath in lost critical damage, but Shiradi is based more on procs and long term damage anyways, so that has very little influence. I do not play a Beast or Pyre or any of the other types, so I can not really comment on them.

    However, the EP is going to add a lot more flexibility. Things that are currently not endgame-viable will be. Things like full time ranged combat, or Dex-based builds, for Elves and Rangers, or Mechanic (auto-trapping! Its no longer just easier to heal through traps on a zerg run)
    And this is even more untrue. First off, the Enhancements that reduce search and disable time by 100% do not make it instant, as you claim here. They only shorten the bar to about half of what it is on Live, which is still not enough to convince players who avoid traps rather than eating them that they should change anything.

    Additionally, while some classes will be seeing much needed increases, none of them will take anything from invalid at endgame to suddenly being viable. This is mostly due to the nature of current end game, and the need for self sufficiency. Either you had it before, and you will retain it. Or else you did not have it before and no amount of class buffs are going to make up for that. On the other hand, if you are one of those classes that depended on the now-extinct Devotion line of enhancements, before you could build in self-cast healing that would help to somewhat aid your self sufficiency, but generally not be fully viable. Now these on-the-fence self healers are entirely screwed with the loss of their accessible Devotion spell power.
    Last edited by ForumAccess; 07-02-2013 at 04:15 PM.

  16. #56
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lerincho View Post
    I have placed the misinformation in bold. It has been stated multiple times by devs that the expansion does not include the enhancement pass.
    Links to these alleged multiple statements please.

  17. #57
    Founder Lerincho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    Links to these alleged multiple statements please.
    I am not your mule, search for yourself. Sufficed to say, it was stated by Turbine employees.

    Prove enhancement pass is part of the expansion.
    The Great Gnome Conspiracy was here!

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lerincho View Post
    I am not your mule, search for yourself. Sufficed to say, it was stated by Turbine employees.

    Prove enhancement pass is part of the expansion.
    Was already done on page two. And that quote from GreyMouser was much more recent than the very long ago posts stating that it was uncertain if the Enhancement Trees would be released with the expansion or not.

    Good try, though.

  19. #59
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lerincho View Post
    I am not your mule, search for yourself. Sufficed to say, it was stated by Turbine employees.

    Prove enhancement pass is part of the expansion.
    You're not a mule, but if you state something definitively you should have the proof to back it up.

    I never once stated that the enhancement pass was part of the expansion. I'm asking you to prove what you're saying to be the truth.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    Serious question: you think it's a GOOD thing that most class' healing is nerfed?
    Everything in the game got hit by power creep inflation: AC, damage, HP, saves, DCs... except healing. The best general healing consumable in the game is still heal scrolls that hit for 110 HP base. From all healing elixir in Store, only one of them have a bigger punch, and only two have better healing after the HoT. Silver Flame potions have a debuff so crippling added to them that they are more a last resort than a healing consumable.

    So, yeah. Outside of the main divine casters, I think bard, rangers and paladins need a lot of buffs. I answered the surveys saying that the 1 Spellpower per point in tree is a bad mechanic and should go for every tree (even caster ones). I suggested them to make spellpower enhancements like the weapon damage lines on rogue/ranger/kensai/racial trees.

    Just because I believe in the end that changes are a net positive, it do not mean that I believe it is ONLY positives.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    Ah, I think I see why you like the changes. I mean, as long as the characters that you play the most, such as Assassins and Stalwart Defenders who never put the shield away, get interesting increases, then arcanes and divines can just go pound sand.
    Faulty assumptions (ok, my cleric is a shroudbot, and my trap-wiz is parked. The others no). The ones I played most on lama were my bardcher (that got a serious nerf on the first pass, and got better now) and my con-based earth savant. On the first pass I tested my rogue and stalwart.

    On those 4 toons, I think on the current pass, all of them got buffed in some way or another.

    My sorc lost a bit of spellpower (less than 20), but I got the ability to bypass elemental resistance on both elements he specialize on, and my Recons still hits for the same after I respeced some of his skill points to repair (covered the enhancement gap). Since with max/emp on, my elemental spell power were over 450, losing 20 is not a big nerf to me. And that because I invested nothing on spellcraft.

    My barcher got in a place were I think she got buffed in the end. Her current enhancement split make me happy that she would in general be buffed (the major loss will be her virtuoso song regen. The major benefit is breaking any DR with pinion). Her spellpower also stayed more or less the same as on live.

    You already agree that rogues and stalwarts got buffed, so no need to expand on it.

    Amossa is my main, and I always try new stuff on her. Right now, she is currently on a cleric/artificer build that is extremelly gimpy, but works on live. I wanted to see how her build would work on lama, but her transfer failed, and the loot room in the dojo don't have any high level runearm to mirror her live gear. So, no idea if her build will live after the enhancement pass. But eh, one dead build requiring a bigger respec over 5 is a good everage for such a system-changing stuff like this.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

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