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  1. #1
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Default Kensei: A review for developers to please consider

    Kensei Enhancement Tree:

    • Critical Accuracy:

      Costs 2 action points in order to receive +1 to confirm criticals. This ability is a pre requisite to "critical damage" and "A good death" abilities.

      Spending 2 points per tier for nothing will result in no action point expenditure in this segment of the tree. If you feel like leaving it, go ahead, just know that its wasted coding. I mentioned this in the alpha, but nothing was changed here. Critical accuracy = Garbage.

    • Critical Damage:

      2 action points for +1 crit damage is outrageously expensive. No thanks.

    • A Good Death:

      Will never be used due to the first two bullets. Ability itself is decent at best, the pre reqs drive the last nails in the coffin for this one.

    • Extra Action Boost:

      These are the kensei boosts we were missing. Thank you for including them.

      However - Current fighters have an extra action boost line in ADDITION to the boosts we get from kensei. This new tree removes those additional boost opportunities, and keeps these kensei ones at 2 AP per tier, which is very expensive.

      Suggestion: Call this enhancement Kensei Boost: 1 AP per tier, 3 tiers. Create new enhancement called Extra Fighter Boost available to both stalwart and kensei: 2 AP per tier, 3 tiers. This way we have easier access to the kensei ones, and further access to the more expensive ones if we feel that our boost count is low.

    • Attack/Haste boost:

      You folks nailed this one, wonderful change. Thanks for this one!

    • Tactics :

      Major issues here. 2 AP for +1 to tactics is stupid. These were the kensei tactics that we were missing, so thanks for including them. But, we are still missing the specific tactic lines that we currently have on live in addition to the kensei tactics. My stunning blow DC is down because this tree lacks specific tactic enhancements in addition to the generic one.

      Suggestion: Kensei tactics should be innate. I'm a fighter for crying out loud, I don't need the choice of taking tactics or not - this needs to be inherent in the prestige, and also gives fighters a better reason to take more fighter levels. Then, change this enhancement into Stunning blow: 1 ap per tier, 5 tiers. Include sunder and trip lines as well.

    • The Weapon Specialization Line:

      Terrible. Why does the first tier give +1 to damage for 2 AP, and then subsequently alternates with +2 damage giving versions in higher tiers for the same 2 AP? Who designed this? The entire tree gives a grand total of: 1 + 2 + 1 + 2 = +6 to damage for: 2ap + 2ap + 2ap + 2ap = 8 action points.

      Suggestion: Absolutely most emphatically INCREASE the damage portion of each weapon specialization enhancement to +3 damage. That way, we get a total of +12 damage for 8 action points instead of a measly 6. Now I feel more like a kensei.

      Also, each one should also add +1 tactic if you choose not to incorporate my above suggestion of making it innate. This will make up for the loss of the other tactic lines and cushion the AP hit for taking the expensive tactics line currently available.

      If not, then add +1 doublestrike to the chosen weapon. I'm SPECIALIZING. Make me feel like a specialist. Come on devs, you can do better than this.

    • Weapon Meditation:

      Good ability, but again 2 ap for incremental speed is expensive. 6 action points to make this tier 3 is rough.

    • Shattering Strike:

      Horrible. Think about this devs, you are incorporating an enhancement that relies on an off stat as a PRE REQ for upper tier abilities. See anything wrong here? You are essentially nullifying 1 AP from this tree, because the ability won't work for most str based kensei's. Sure, it'll work for niche builds, which is why it should be a NICHE ability, not part of a main pathway toward upper level enhancements. Stupid design.

    • Deadly Strike:

      Hey devs? I crit all the time. I don't need a special button that I can hit out of the thousand things I already have to keep track of, just to score another crit...this ability stinks to high heaven, and should be thrown in the garbage.

      I'm not relying on a vorpal to make use of this, I don't even hotbar it. No suggestion for this one, throw it away. It sucks, we SCREAMED this point in alpha, and nobody listened. THIS ABILITY IS CRA_P.

    • Ascetic training:

      Too expensive, 1 AP per tier is reasonable.

    • Spiritual Bond:

      I don't like this - this should be on rolls of 19 or 20, and stackable up to 10 times, simple and direct. Forget all that # of innates higher than charges bull, too complicated and unnecessary. Also, that would ease my point expenditure on weapon meditation if I can charge it a bit easier that way. That would go along well with my goals.

    • One Cut:

      Who cares? This is why fighter after level 12 has ZERO appeal. I couldn't care less about this one.

    • Alacrity:

      Nice ability, but when confronted with the splash benefits, its weak. I'm splashing my fighter as it stands now, kind've a no brainer. The 2 extra boosts don't really help it along that much.

      Now, if you add +5 tactics, mobs don't save against your tactic DC on a roll of a 20 if it would otherwise have been sufficient, and a mass stunning blow affect with a 1 minute cooldown, NOW you got me thinking...

      Hell, the mass stun alone would get me thinking...

      Why? because its exclusively useful to PURE fighters, something that no splash can do. That's what entices people to go down that road.
    Last edited by Cetus; 07-03-2013 at 01:12 PM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Rusty_Can's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    [*]Tactics :

    Major issues here. 2 AP for +1 to tactics is stupid.
    This is consistent with the cost of Dwarf and Warforged Tactics racial enhancements. I agree, it seems a bit overpriced.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    [*] A Good Death:

    Will never be used due to the first two bullets. Ability itself is decent at best, the pre reqs drive the last nails in the coffin for this one.[*]Shattering Strike:

    Horrible. Think about this devs, you are incorporating an enhancement that relies on an off stat as a PRE REQ for upper tier abilities. See anything wrong here? You are essentially nullifying 1 AP from this tree, because the ability won't work for most str based kensei's. Sure, it'll work for niche builds, which is why it should be a NICHE ability, not part of a main pathway toward upper level enhancements. Stupid design.

    [*]Deadly Strike:

    Hey devs? I crit all the time. I don't need a special button that I can hit out of the thousand things I already have to keep track of, just to score another crit...this ability stinks to high heaven, and should be thrown in the garbage.

    I'm not relying on a vorpal to make use of this, I don't even hotbar it. No suggestion for this one, throw it away. It sucks, we SCREAMED this point in alpha, and nobody listened. THIS ABILITY IS CRA_P.
    I think the devs may have been reticent to make any clicky attack TOO powerful, for the reasons you mentioned - they didn't want to turn Fighter into a 4-level toolbox that any STR-based melee fighter could take as a splash.

    Plus, a lot of those skills could multiply really quick with things like class buffs and especially ED skills. They've been throwing the +[W] around a lot on new skills in the EP, I can see where they don't want the game to just devolve into stacking crit mult and then spamming +[W] clickies to get multiplied, especially with all the new sources for doublestrike too...

  4. #4
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Also I forgot to mention:

    Feat Requirements: The specialization line requires greater weapon focus and weapon specialization. Thats 3 feats that we are REQUIRED to spend in order to progress up this tree, two of which give nothing to the character, and one of which is too weak to be considered if not for it being a requirement.

    Bad design, please rework this.
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  5. #5

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    Agree
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  6. #6
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    Posted this earlier in the Fighter Enhancement Thread:

    The Kensei Tier 4 Enhancement Weapon Group Specialization has the following requirements: Fighter Level 4, Weapon Group Specialization, and the relevant Greater Weapon Focus Feat.

    The problem is that Greater Weapon Focus Feat has the prerequisite of Fighter Level 8. This defeats the entire purpose of creating Class Enhancement Trees that have a maximum 5th level requirement in the relevant class (excluding tree core enhancements, of course).

  7. #7
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    [*]Alacrity:

    Nice ability, but when confronted with the splash benefits, its weak. I'm splashing my fighter as it stands now, kind've a no brainer. The 2 extra boosts don't really help it along that much.

    Now, if you add +5 tactics, mobs don't save against your tactic DC on a roll of a 20 if it would otherwise have been sufficient, and a mass stunning blow affect with a 1 minute cooldown, NOW you got me thinking...

    Hell, the mass stun alone would get me thinking...

    Why? because its exclusively useful to PURE fighters, something that no splash can do. That's what entices people to go down that road. [/LIST]
    What about an AOE Trip ability(think Lay Waste, but with a 30s to 1m timer) using all the related trip dc malarkey, and you treat all tripped enemies as Helpless IN ADDITION to that Alacrity Bonus.

    Call it Tactical Supremacy.

    Either way, don't get rid of my Doublestrike. I LURV doublestrike.

  8. #8
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    What about an AOE Trip ability(think Lay Waste, but with a 30s to 1m timer) using all the related trip dc malarkey, and you treat all tripped enemies as Helpless IN ADDITION to that Alacrity Bonus.

    Call it Tactical Supremacy.

    Either way, don't get rid of my Doublestrike. I LURV doublestrike.
    It would help, but as you've mentioned its lay waste all over again. Not very interesting. I'm suggesting these abilities in addition to the already present doublestrike, I wouldn't want that removed either.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Ok, I just noticed that the frenzy tree has extra action boost and THOSE cost 1 ap....

    Devs? Comment? Why?
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  10. #10
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    I totally agree with you on this. The Kensei tree is really really bad, so much so that I'm planning to TR into a fighter as quickly as I can in order to avoid playing fighter lives after the Enhancement Pass comes to live. Sadly, I have a feeling that what we see now will not be fixed, but I still hope it will.

  11. #11
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix888 View Post
    I totally agree with you on this. The Kensei tree is really really bad, so much so that I'm planning to TR into a fighter as quickly as I can in order to avoid playing fighter lives after the Enhancement Pass comes to live. Sadly, I have a feeling that what we see now will not be fixed, but I still hope it will.
    Yea, a few simple changes would make a WORLD of a difference. Just a few

    Fix critical accuracy and the feat pre reqs and all of a sudden I love the tree.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronThrone View Post
    Posted this earlier in the Fighter Enhancement Thread:

    The Kensei Tier 4 Enhancement Weapon Group Specialization has the following requirements: Fighter Level 4, Weapon Group Specialization, and the relevant Greater Weapon Focus Feat.

    The problem is that Greater Weapon Focus Feat has the prerequisite of Fighter Level 8. This defeats the entire purpose of creating Class Enhancement Trees that have a maximum 5th level requirement in the relevant class (excluding tree core enhancements, of course).
    +1 to that.

    The whole point of the new enhancment system (along with rebalancing) is giving more perks for going pure, but also to make it so that you can most of these high tier abilities with only 5 levels of a given class. As an example, 5 levels of ranger will grant you the ability to buy slayer arrows. However, NONE of the prestiges have feat prerequisits anymore, why are you giving us a class that gives us a bunch of free feats, only to bog us down with a ton of ABSOLUTELY USELESS prerequisite feats (+1 to attack? after you destroyed the attack system? yeah right.)

    And more importantly, you have an ability which sais < Prereq: Fighter 5. < but also has a prereq feat that has its own prereq of < Fighter 8.
    remove that feat prereq. In fact, you really should remove ALL of them. It is completely inconsistent, and biased.

  13. #13
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    It would help, but as you've mentioned its lay waste all over again. Not very interesting. I'm suggesting these abilities in addition to the already present doublestrike, I wouldn't want that removed either.
    Bullrush. Sadly this is someone akin to the dragon wings in Draconic, but if it's a short little burst (not Abundant Step, I don't want anything like that) that knocks an opponent back/down (just like in PnP ) would be wonderful to use in mob situations. Maybe even have it cause a kind of dot effect dependant on your weapon. Slashing would leave a bleeding wound, bludgeoning could actually stun them, and piercing would...go ahead and put something here. I can't think of much for a piercing weapon, maybe a hamstring effect? Hamstring and bleed would be good, since there are no true piercing thf weapons (Sireth not withstanding. It would stun since it's a staff) just to help bridge a tiny gap people might have.

    Regardless, I do enjoy the whole treating tripped enemies as helpless bit, and if you get rid of my doublestrike Ima cry. I don't care if it becomes a pure flavour build, I do enjoy going s&b on occasion, though I am seriously debating on going TWF again. THF is ok and cleaving is fun, and S&B is nice for going super fun on cleaves with high defenses, but TWF is just more fun to play.

  14. #14
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    Bullrush. Sadly this is someone akin to the dragon wings in Draconic, but if it's a short little burst (not Abundant Step, I don't want anything like that) that knocks an opponent back/down (just like in PnP ) would be wonderful to use in mob situations. Maybe even have it cause a kind of dot effect dependant on your weapon. Slashing would leave a bleeding wound, bludgeoning could actually stun them, and piercing would...go ahead and put something here. I can't think of much for a piercing weapon, maybe a hamstring effect? Hamstring and bleed would be good, since there are no true piercing thf weapons (Sireth not withstanding. It would stun since it's a staff) just to help bridge a tiny gap people might have.

    Regardless, I do enjoy the whole treating tripped enemies as helpless bit, and if you get rid of my doublestrike Ima cry. I don't care if it becomes a pure flavour build, I do enjoy going s&b on occasion, though I am seriously debating on going TWF again. THF is ok and cleaving is fun, and S&B is nice for going super fun on cleaves with high defenses, but TWF is just more fun to play.
    Oh yea, I forgot about the helpless trip suggestion from a while ago. That would be really nice
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  15. #15
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    Oh yea, I forgot about the helpless trip suggestion from a while ago. That would be really nice
    Add that, and maybe even go with the old Crit rage things of +1 to threat range and +1 to crit multi, and that's enough incentive for anyone to go pure IMO. Granted it has to be with chosen weapon, but idgaf. Dwarven axes and Greataxes are lumped together (Duergar and Cleaver) and Bastard swords and greatswords are lumped together (Nightmare and Esos) that I seriously don't care about that whole bit. That would grant such a huge amount of power IMO for the class, that it would be the perfect incentive for going 20 Fighter.

  16. #16
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Bumping this for Dev viewing. Some major issues still need to be resolved, and not a peep from any one of them.
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