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  1. #1
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    Default Suggestions for the Developers

    I haven't been playing much after the TR ED loss controversy but here is some feedback based on what I have read so far of the lammania preview:

    Excellent work on the epic feats.
    I would drop the epic reputation (+ skills) feat. Actually if you want to make things more newbie friendly (which I think is one of the goals of this expansion pack) I would drop all skill focus feats except skill focus UMD (people are less able to cripple their builds that way). Lower the Lord of Blades intimidate threshold to compensate. Please remove improved fortification as a warforged option as well as negotiator, athletic, combat casting, etc.
    I would increase epic luck of heroes (the +1 all saves) to +2 all saves (it doesn't have the no fail saves component which is what makes the others desirable).

    Excellent work on the new cleric tree.
    I would just do the suggested improving on the evil side SLAs.

    I like that you are opening up multi class options by allowing 6 class trees.

    But...
    It has been 2 months and it looks like most of the work has been a single class tree and some bug fixes.
    I think you need more time to have a finished enhancement tree product.
    I think it is paramount to have good cleric/fvs enhancements (for healthy non BYOH pugging grouping that allows build variety) and polished trees when you launch them.

    I would:
    Separate the enhancement pass from the expansion pack.
    Give us a new preview of enhancements every 2 months and plan on releasing it at the end of the year or 1st half of next year (when you are getting mostly positive feedback instead of mostly negative feedback).

    Add the warpriest melee tree to clerics.
    Add the divine avenger melee tree to FVS (based on getting divine disciple after 2 months I'm guessing this would take 4 months to add those 2 trees).
    Have clerics and FVS share the healing tree instead of the protection tree.
    Ditch protection from clerics and FVS.

    Have wizards and sorcerers share the archmage tree (or have them share all 3 trees: savant, archmage, and palemaster for more build options... they share them all in PNP). This wouldn't take much development time.

    Remove wand heightening and critical accuracy enhancements or combine them with wand/scroll mastery and critical damage enhancements.

    Either have all spell power bonuses be 2 points per AP spent capping at 80 (so people aren't discouraged from going into racial trees or non SP granting trees). Have the cap raised to 100 if you have the palemaster or archmage level 20 capstone or 120 if you have the savant level 20 capstone.

    Alternatively add a generic tree that has wizard style spell power/critical enhancements without capstones.
    Last edited by maddong; 06-30-2013 at 08:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddong View Post

    Add the warpriest melee tree to clerics.
    Add the divine avenger melee tree to FVS (based on getting divine disciple after 2 months I'm guessing this would take 4 months to add those 2 trees).
    Have clerics and FVS share the healing tree instead of the protection tree.
    Ditch protection from clerics and FVS.
    so much good stuff in that post, but if I had to emphasize anything it would be this quoted part about the divines, and especially the clerics.
    clerics should have a healing tree, a smiting tree, and a melee tree (aka the warpriest).
    at the moment they have healing/smiting/ protection trees, which is close, but really missing the mark on the melee tree.
    IMO the melee tree should be evenly split between offense and tanking options, allowing a cleric to go into battle and be an effective force if they fully invest in that tree. not just go in and turtle, or follow and defend.
    things like the paladin aura come to mind. maybe an increased rate of turn regeneration as melee clerics use bursts more often then the healbots, and of course MELEE boosting options would be nice to have (please read nice to have as SHOULD BE IN THE TREE) coupled with some tanking options

  3. #3
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Sorry, Sorcerers deserve another PrE coupled with a revamp of the new enhancements before they actually touch anything else.
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  4. #4
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    After hearing about ruin I withdraw the 50 spell point request, it is fine at 75.

    Obviously I agree that sorcerers need a second prestige tree. I think the easiest way to fix that with a time constraint is to share a wizard one. They are already doing this with FVS/cleric and essentially with paladin/fighter (the defender line is pretty darn similar). I would just keep it the exact same tree so it doesn't require any recoding, add a selector for int or cha bonuses, and have the SLAs use the higher (or total) of wiz/sorc levels.

    I think before the enhancement release the following things need to be fixed as the highest priority:

    Sorcerers only have 1 prestige tree. Add a second one (easiest to share archmage, or just have wizards and sorcerers share all trees).

    The Protection tree needs to be removed from the game. If you are making a baby sitter why would you not focus on the Healing tree? Having a lesser option for the same type of character shouldn't exist. If you feel there is something really cool in the protection tree then move it into one of the other trees to strengthen the coolness of the class (we already combined spellsinger/virtuoso and kotc/hotd, why recreate the problem?).

    FVS effectively have 1 prestige tree. Give them healing instead of protection. I would prefer they add divine avenger and warpriest prior to release but if you are going to rush job it at least give them the healing tree (extra turns can grant the turn undead feat if you don't already have it).

    Fighters effectively have 1 prestige tree. The defender tree should offer something to people that aren't using a shield (unless everyone is just supposed to splash 2 monk for defensive strikes and grandmaster stances....). If defenders need to have less PRR than on live the developers should tell us instead of not saying anything.

    Paladins effectively have 1 prestige tree. See above. Both paladin trees should give healing spell power. Divine might is useless for defenders currently.

    Rangers don't get healing spell power. Currently on live everyone complains about how overpowered pure rangers are. Wait, no they don't.

    You already gain a ton from 2/ splash builds with paladin, fighter, and monk. Now they get divine might (+ 1/2 charisma to tactics), +3 tactics, and 50 PRR respectively.... I'd be happy if we at least encouraged more 4/ splashes of those classes.

    The self nerfing of spell power when you are playing a caster class (druid or bard) and you want at least some or most of things in the non spell power tree or racial tree. We either need 2 spell power per point with a cap (regardless of how many trees you get them from) so we can freely go into other trees without penalty or a separate generic tree for spell power.

  5. #5
    2015 DDO Players Council Cetus's Avatar
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    Sorcs got whooped in this incarnation as well

    Kensei's are forced to destroy feat slots

    Purity as a whole provides no contest
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  6. #6
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    I don't think those feats are going to be new epic feats. Just a guess but I think they are related to Epic TR or Iconics. Some of these (Ruin, Haste) just dont seem to fit the flavor of a generic feat.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddong View Post
    [snip]
    Separate the enhancement pass from the expansion pack.
    [snip}.
    Not to nitpick here, but it has already been stated that the enhancement pass and expansion pack are two separate projects. Their intent was to have the new enhancement in before the expansion in August; however, I believe due to feedback they will not make that deadline as major changes were necessary.

    To go along with your feedback I will state this once again:
    Remove the per tree cost when it comes to racial trees. While classes can be changed at varying levels, you are and will always be the same race in your current life; therefore, the racial tree should take into account total points spent not tree points spent.
    The Great Gnome Conspiracy was here!

  8. #8
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    I would also like the developers to reconsider the whole spellcraft skill for anything that isn't a wizard. All divine casters need points in Heal, spellcraft, UMD, and other skills like Balance or concentration.

    This is not a tough choice. This is a train wreck. There simply aren't enough build points to invest into intelligence. Even with the 38 point build from an epic TR caster divines will struggle to keep up in healing and damage.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lerincho View Post
    Not to nitpick here, but it has already been stated that the enhancement pass and expansion pack are two separate projects. Their intent was to have the new enhancement in before the expansion in August; however, I believe due to feedback they will not make that deadline as major changes were necessary.

    To go along with your feedback I will state this once again:
    Remove the per tree cost when it comes to racial trees. While classes can be changed at varying levels, you are and will always be the same race in your current life; therefore, the racial tree should take into account total points spent not tree points spent.
    I like it!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    I don't think those feats are going to be new epic feats. Just a guess but I think they are related to Epic TR or Iconics. Some of these (Ruin, Haste) just dont seem to fit the flavor of a generic feat.
    They are feats in pnp.

  11. #11
    Community Member Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lerincho View Post
    Not to nitpick here, but it has already been stated that the enhancement pass and expansion pack are two separate projects. Their intent was to have the new enhancement in before the expansion in August; however, I believe due to feedback they will not make that deadline as major changes were necessary.
    Nitpicking is good, especially in that case...
    Quoting what MajMal wrote somewhere else :
    Enhancements are 99% sure to be in the xpack.
    No major changes will happen with a deadline in 6 weeks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    I would also like the developers to reconsider the whole spellcraft skill for anything that isn't a wizard. All divine casters need points in Heal, spellcraft, UMD, and other skills like Balance or concentration.

    This is not a tough choice. This is a train wreck. There simply aren't enough build points to invest into intelligence. Even with the 38 point build from an epic TR caster divines will struggle to keep up in healing and damage.
    I defied MajMal to make it work -or more precisely to find the 6 Build points needed for her to raise INT from 8 to 14 so that she can have 4 skill points to spend on the important stuff : Balance, Concentration, Heal and Spellcraft- on Flavilandile without gimping her more than what she already is ( her stat are here in the Cleric enhancement part ). It seems he isn't interested in the defy.
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  12. #12
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    I think some key changes could be made in 6 weeks... Like letting Sorcs pick a 2nd prestige tree and changing some spell power decisions...

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