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  1. #1
    2016 DDO Players Council Stoner81's Avatar
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    Question A Arcane Archer's Dexterity Needs

    Hey folks I am rather curious as to what the needs are for Arcane Archers in terms of Dexterity, I know obviously that DEX is used for to hit rolls but where is the point when it becomes pointless to push DEX further up. I assume that all archers end up only missing on a 1 due to BAB and other boosts/bonuses so hence the question. This is something that me and guild buddy have been talking about and he has challenged me to make a build which does not rely as much on DEX as the "common" builds do/did.

    My thinking is to bring DEX down to a base of say 14 ish and max out STR and put all level ups in it to since this will affect damage rolls for both ranged and melee attacks so to me it's win-win, obviously I don't want this to be gimped but just curious if it could be done.

    Stoner81.

    PS - I know bows can use DEX for damage I am trying to get the most of out the Bow Strength feat here with this build idea.

  2. #2
    Community Member walkin_dude's Avatar
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    Dex requirement for Improved Precise Shot is 19. So by level 15 or 18 (ymmv), that would be the dex goal.

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    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    To hit means absolutely nothing now. I mean maybe it does but ud have to have just nothing at all for missing things to become apparent like before the rework. Especially if your a real archer in which case your aiming for wis not dex.

    Anyway, the main goal for your stats should be feat qualification (in this case IPS) and whatever epic feats your striving for.

    Unless your just tring at 20 then nothing really matters.
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  4. #4
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkin_dude View Post
    Dex requirement for Improved Precise Shot is 19. So by level 15 or 18 (ymmv), that would be the dex goal.
    Rangers don't need any dex because they get dex feats free (remember while Combat Archery requires 21 dex, it is bugged and simply doesn't work). Though they do have evasion so extra reflex saves from dex is more cool than on other classes.

  5. #5
    2016 DDO Players Council Stoner81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    Especially if your a real archer in which case your aiming for wis not dex.
    Why WIS since for Rangers it's just used for spell points and to be able to cast their spells for which only a WIS score of 14 is needed including item boosts etc.

    Stoner81.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    Why WIS since for Rangers it's just used for spell points and to be able to cast their spells for which only a WIS score of 14 is needed including item boosts etc.

    Stoner81.
    I suspect "real archer" was meant to mean "10k stars monk with zen archery."

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    Community Member Cryohazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    Why WIS since for Rangers it's just used for spell points and to be able to cast their spells for which only a WIS score of 14 is needed including item boosts etc.

    Stoner81.
    I think he may be referring to the "Monkcher" style archers, a multiclass build which requires 12 levels of monk. I believe they're WIS based (But don't quote me on that, I have yet to roll one up myself). My pure 20 ranger AA does just fine, and will probably survive the enhancement pass better than monkchers will.

    But as a pure ranger, you won't need more than 19 base DEX. Ever. Its just for improved precise shot, and that's it. Improved precise shot is a massive DPS boost for you if you know how to use it properly.

    Just snarf down a dex tome early on, and put everything else into STR for damage. Bow strength is your friend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    Why WIS since for Rangers it's just used for spell points and to be able to cast their spells for which only a WIS score of 14 is needed including item boosts etc.

    Stoner81.
    As others pointed out this is for 10k stars. wax_on_wax_off showed some math proving that with 10k stars each point of wis increases damage more than each point of str. This also helps with shiradi procs if you plan to be 100% ranged.

    As for dex, no more than 21 from base, tomes and level ups to get combat archery. Presumably it will be fixed and it will be important at that time.

    You probably already know the ranger capstone doesn't work as advertised, but I am pointing it out just in case. It's not worth 20 levels of ranger for the capstone at the moment.

    What class mix are you looking at? That might help people give you some ideas/options based on the class mix you want.
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  9. #9
    Community Member DrNuegebauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryohazard View Post
    I think he may be referring to the "Monkcher" style archers, a multiclass build which requires 12 levels of monk. I believe they're WIS based (But don't quote me on that, I have yet to roll one up myself). My pure 20 ranger AA does just fine, and will probably survive the enhancement pass better than monkchers will.

    But as a pure ranger, you won't need more than 19 base DEX. Ever. Its just for improved precise shot, and that's it. Improved precise shot is a massive DPS boost for you if you know how to use it properly.

    Just snarf down a dex tome early on, and put everything else into STR for damage. Bow strength is your friend.
    Pretty sure you only need 6 monk levels for 10k stars?

    I'd highly recommend it for any ranged build. It requires 14 base dex - which is ridiculously easy to attain.

    You need to be able to get to 19 base dex for IPS (ie, starting + tomes + level ups). If you don't have at least a +3 tome, then you might as well have 11+ base ranger levels so that you get it for free.

    And you want to be past 30 wisdom for more 10k stars arrows.

  10. #10
    2016 DDO Players Council Stoner81's Avatar
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    I have no idea on what class split I am thinking of to be honest was toying with just pure Ranger just to try it out really, the toon I would be doing it on has a +4 DEX tome on him so could start with 15 DEX. Not really thought about a monkcher build since it's my TR toon but one never knows.

    Thanks for the all the replies guys very useful information keep it coming

    Stoner81.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    PS - I know bows can use DEX for damage I am trying to get the most of out the Bow Strength feat here with this build idea.
    Waaait. By default there is no damage bonus from any ability for bows (or crossbows)...
    Unless you meant using DEX for melee damage with some named melee weapon that uses DEX, in which case nvm.
    Last edited by MindCakes; 06-29-2013 at 07:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    I have no idea on what class split I am thinking of to be honest was toying with just pure Ranger just to try it out really, the toon I would be doing it on has a +4 DEX tome on him so could start with 15 DEX. Not really thought about a monkcher build since it's my TR toon but one never knows.

    Thanks for the all the replies guys very useful information keep it coming

    Stoner81.
    If you are just looking for a TR life up to level 20 for the ranger past life, a pure ranger does well. With a pure ranger you get improved precise shot automatically and since this is a TR character there is no need to worry about combat archery. With that I think a 14 dex is just fine since you will get improved precise shot automatically even if you don't meet the min dex requirements.

    I would suggest using swords between many shots and using everything you can to buff your manyshot for key fights - gloves of the titan, human versatility, etc.

    With AA you have 3 feats required so you only have 4 open slots. This is one of the reasons multi-classes are so popular with ranger builds. Power Attack, Improved Critical Slashing, Improved Critical Ranged, Toughness are common choices. You can also go human if you are a pure ranger for the extra feat.

    Good luck with you ranger life!
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  13. #13
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryohazard View Post
    I think he may be referring to the "Monkcher" style archers, a multiclass build which requires 12 levels of monk. I believe they're WIS based (But don't quote me on that, I have yet to roll one up myself). My pure 20 ranger AA does just fine, and will probably survive the enhancement pass better than monkchers will.

    But as a pure ranger, you won't need more than 19 base DEX. Ever. Its just for improved precise shot, and that's it. Improved precise shot is a massive DPS boost for you if you know how to use it properly.

    Just snarf down a dex tome early on, and put everything else into STR for damage. Bow strength is your friend.
    They are and thats what the real archer meant. I mean you could call a ranger an archer but magical ED's and single file monsters with IPS or not, that single arrows gonna be sadder then the full on tank built sacrificed whatever dps was happening pally.

    Anyway the reason for the wis focus is it uses the modifier for 2 hit as well as increases the chances of firing more arrows. So the goal is to get 10k stars to be firing 3 and 4 arrows consecutively. Amped up by human boosts. I remember their was a debate as to which was better pure wis grind or a mix of str and wis and it was shown through rain man calculations that the extra arrow ratio of wisdom would generate the most dmg. Especially when using fotw.
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    I've been playing around exclusively with various ranged builds on Lama this cycle...if the final EP looks something like what's being tested now, Monkchers are going to be even more powerful - Rangers are getting no-SP, low-cooldown clickable skills with +[W] and improved crit profile, which meshes very nicely with multishot archers (Manyshot/10KS and Repeater builds).

    Just with free testing gear and first-life builds, Sniper Shot hits for several hundred each arrow/bolt....Slaying Arrow was critting for 3x2,500 with Adrenaline.

    I think the new ranged fotm build after the EP is going to be 11Rgr/6-7Mnk/2-1Drd. Sniper/Inferno Shot for offense, AA imbues for DR breaking, 10KS/MS to multiply it, and Beguile for fast-stacking and very effective CC that works against bosses. Twist in Enlightenment with Ocean Stance and you can stay pure ranged...and you can completely dump DEX as everything is autogranted and based on STR/WIS.

  15. #15
    2016 DDO Players Council Stoner81's Avatar
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    I know this is a total thread necro however, now that U19 has been and gone I was wondering if things had changed at all when it comes to the original question about Dexterity for a pure Ranger. From what I have seen round the forums multiclassing is the optimum way of doing things but for the sake of argument lets assume pure Ranger just to make life easier

    Stoner81.

  16. #16
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    I'm still STR focused on my archer as overwhelming crit (imo) is a must have feat and requires 23str.
    Combat archery works now, so you'll probably want 21dex.

    I'm a big fan of Elves for archery now, as our hp is so inflated now the con penalty is miniscule and the dex boost really helps with Combat Archery.

    For monkchers, their best bet is to get 23str, 21dex with the minimum effort (again elf), then focus on wisdom for 10k stars.

  17. #17
    2016 DDO Players Council Stoner81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    I'm still STR focused on my archer as overwhelming crit (imo) is a must have feat and requires 23str.
    Combat archery works now, so you'll probably want 21dex.

    I'm a big fan of Elves for archery now, as our hp is so inflated now the con penalty is miniscule and the dex boost really helps with Combat Archery.

    For monkchers, their best bet is to get 23str, 21dex with the minimum effort (again elf), then focus on wisdom for 10k stars.
    So something like:

    STR = 18 base + levels up + tomes (max damage from Bow Strength and melee).
    DEX = 16 base + 1 level + a +4 tome.

    Stoner81.

  18. #18
    Community Member Maldorin's Avatar
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    Default Dexterity to Damage for Bows

    Quote Originally Posted by MindCakes View Post
    Waaait. By default there is no damage bonus from any ability for bows (or crossbows)...
    Unless you meant using DEX for melee damage with some named melee weapon that uses DEX, in which case nvm.
    For my Ranger I chose elf race and the dexterity to damage on the racial tree for longbows. It allowed me to dump strength and I managed a 52 dex (3rd life). Gives me an awesome reflex save (72 buffed with a twist), AC is higher and the plus to damage. All nice. I don't think I would build it any other way now.

    I am surprised more people don't do this?

  19. #19
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    Now that accuracy items are available, there is no real reason to put much into dexterity.

    A +10 accuracy item is the equivalent of +20 dexterity. As for feat requirements, it doesn't matter for a ranger since all the dex-based feats are auto granted regardless of your actual dexterity.

    I think the main thing is not to put any points to dex @ a 2 for 1 cost. #NotWorthItb I'd put 4 points into any other stat before I would put 2 points to dex @ a cost of 4 points.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    I'm still STR focused on my archer as overwhelming crit (imo) is a must have feat and requires 23str.
    Combat archery works now, so you'll probably want 21dex.

    I'm a big fan of Elves for archery now, as our hp is so inflated now the con penalty is miniscule and the dex boost really helps with Combat Archery.

    For monkchers, their best bet is to get 23str, 21dex with the minimum effort (again elf), then focus on wisdom for 10k stars.
    Thank you for the info. I wasn't aware that Combat Archery was fixed - so there is finally a reason to put points to Dex for a ranger.
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