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  1. #41
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caprice View Post
    What about a DEX-based Shadar-Kai Bard10/Rog3/Ftr2?
    I would recommend rog 5 / bard 10: you lose two feats and Haste Boost costs more; but you could add Knife Spec from assassin for moar DPS. TWF x3, Power Atk, IC:Pierce, Extend (Haste+Displace). APs are tight, but I think it's doable: 32 in Assassin for knife spec; 17 APs in SDK gets you Whirling Chain; leaving 11 to pick up some bard enhs or Haste Boost from Acro.

  2. #42
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Default Great ideas everyone!

    Great ideas everyone! Keep the brainstorming/ideas flowing! Great teamwork! :P! ! ! Cheers! Very interesting!
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  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I would recommend rog 5 / bard 10: you lose two feats and Haste Boost costs more; but you could add Knife Spec from assassin for moar DPS. TWF x3, Power Atk, IC:Pierce, Extend (Haste+Displace). APs are tight, but I think it's doable: 32 in Assassin for knife spec; 17 APs in SDK gets you Whirling Chain; leaving 11 to pick up some bard enhs or Haste Boost from Acro.
    Technically, a disposable challenge farmer will only have 56 AP to work with.

  4. #44
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Just yesterday I used an LR +20 Heart to change a character which was borked into unplayability (or at least un-enjoyability) into a dedicated Challenge runner. She is level 17, not 15, but I expect to need low-level ings rarely if ever.

    Note that this toon already had a fair amount of gear, including "old" (not "old-old") Black Dragonscale leather armor and a bunch of khopeshes, at least half of them BtC.

    Art 3/Sor 14, Chaotic Good Half-elf, 68 AP

    Feats:
    1. Paladin dilettante, Dragonmark of storm
    3. Exotic proficiency: khopesh
    6. Augment summoning
    9. Quicken spell
    12. Empower spell
    15. Improved critical slashing

    Artificer spells:
    1. Conjure bolts, grease, enchant armor
    2. Elemental weapons
    Preferred rune arm: Corruption of Nature (Corrosion +78)

    Sorcerer spells:
    1. Expeditious retreat, featherfall, jump, shield
    2. Resist energy, blur, invisibility, command undead
    3. Haste, displacement, fireball, flame arrow
    4. Dimension door, charm monster, ice storm, remove curse
    5. Protection from elements, cloudkill, symbold of pain
    6. Summon monster VI, greater heroism
    7. Disco ball

    6 AP into Battle Engineer: attack boost, infused weapons
    6 AP into Arcanotechnician: spell critical, wand and scroll mastery
    16 AP into Half-elf: power of storm, arcane fluidity, two ability score raises, no improved dilettante
    40 AP into Acid Savant: maxed-out Acid Blast, Awaken Elemental Weakness, +2 CHA, etc. Acid Blast is both Empowered and Quickened.

    The only Challenge mobs immune to acid are arcanoloths; Ice Storm is for them, Fireball is for frost renders. I don't think I will bother with level 3 iron defender. Power of Storm useful against orthons and also arcanoloths.
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

    "Of course it is. Are YOU going to question beholder's artistic sense?"

  5. #45
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    Default Sorry for the silly question.

    Why the requirement of D Door for Lava Caves?

    You're building the toon to farm mats, so for time is money you won't think twice about getting extra time if the situation requires it.

    An experienced torch runner will know instinctively where and how to look for clusters, and have all their own little tricks to turn a bad jump or drop into a profitable run. And in a team, the runner will direct base defenders to look out from the bridge to see anymore clusters whilst he/she is working the kobolds.

    I honestly believe that when the challenges were designed, they were based around the artificer class. And I've got a heroic and an epic arti specifically designed to solo/group in the challenges.

    A good possible multi class would be Shada-Kia/Arti. You've got traps covered, you've got your chain in case you get surrounded, but you lose out on the level 6 spells.

  6. #46
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    YMMV. I never successfully soloed Colossal Crystals without a d-door, or at least a hireling with d-door.
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

    "Of course it is. Are YOU going to question beholder's artistic sense?"

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    YMMV. I never successfully soloed Colossal Crystals without a d-door, or at least a hireling with d-door.
    I wish I've taken a screen shot, but those who have ran with me know I've pulled some good results out of colossal crystal. I admit, I do go in with D-Door scrolls and the goblets that transfer you back to the start, but I rarely use them. But every torch runner has their own tricks of the trade that work for their style of playing.

    If you're on Argonnessen, then send me a pm on here and I'll hook up with you in game for a few runs. You might grumble about my Epic toon though, I capped it now, not really bothered about the 20% hit on mats gained as their isn't really much to get with them now. I do prefer to run with people that have headsets though.

  8. #48
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Sorry, I am on Cannith server
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

    "Of course it is. Are YOU going to question beholder's artistic sense?"

  9. #49
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    That's ok, I'm premium and unlocked the Arti through challenges (that was my iconic moment in the game).

    Feel for you though about the botched LH+20 reincarnation though. My epic arti went the same way just over a month ago, and only just managed to get it back in order.

    I wish you all the cool runnings though in Lava Caves and you get a build you are comfortable with

  10. #50
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    I think you misunderstood. I did not botch the LR +20 reincarnation -- I botched the character through several bad decisions over couple years. I used LR +20 heart to completely remake her.
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

    "Of course it is. Are YOU going to question beholder's artistic sense?"

  11. #51
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    I think you misunderstood. I did not botch the LR +20 reincarnation -- I botched the character through several bad decisions over couple years. I used LR +20 heart to completely remake her.
    I did this with a warforged 16 fighter/2 rogue that had been languishing for at least a year...much happier as a pseudo-juggernaut.

    While I like the idea of keeping ddoor for a challenge farmer I'm not married to the idea as I farmed materials on an arti build without it until the enhancement pass....though I generally skipped colossal crystal.

  12. #52
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Default Any other *Iconic* possibilities?

    Any other *Iconic* possibilities? Super busy with college mid-terms this week so, nothing creative coming to mind for me

    Keep the brainstorming going guys! Very interesting/I'm loving it! (insert McDonalds music/commercial here) Cheers! :P! ! !
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  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Relem View Post
    Why the requirement of D Door for Lava Caves?
    For the same reason you want run speed in mansion: because it materially improves your returns.

    Any alt can solo any challenge.

  14. #54
    Community Member Caprice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I would recommend rog 5 / bard 10: you lose two feats and Haste Boost costs more; but you could add Knife Spec from assassin for moar DPS. TWF x3, Power Atk, IC:Pierce, Extend (Haste+Displace). APs are tight, but I think it's doable: 32 in Assassin for knife spec; 17 APs in SDK gets you Whirling Chain; leaving 11 to pick up some bard enhs or Haste Boost from Acro.
    With Knife Spec I would probably drop PA and go for Precision, which allows you to drop STR back to 8 and spend the build points elsewhere. If you are going to focus a build around criticals you might as well go all-in. The starter daggers each have an on-crit proc for 7d6 dmg each, which does work well with Knife Spec. You do have to waste some AP in Assassin at the start, but not that much overall. OTOH I think you may have some trouble clearing trash packs with just the chain and its lengthy cooldown.

    So I guess the question is whether or not +1 crit threat, +1 crit multiple, +2 DEX, and +2d6 SA is worth more than 6 Haste boosts, 6 Sprint Boosts, and more AoE damage from Cleave and Great Cleave?

    FWIW, even if you had enough AP to get Haste Boost out of Acrobat I don't really think that spending 11 AP just for 3 charges is all that good a use of AP. Kensei makes it more worthwhile because you get the extra charges.

    Good call on Extend - Spellpoints are an issue. A level 10 Bard with CHA14 has base 313 SP and Haste and Displacement last only a minute each. Extend reduces your Haste+Displacement buff drain to 30/min rather than 40/min, and if you stick to those two you can self-buff for 10 minutes - enough for some but not all challenges. For longer challenges... well, hmm. Staying perma-Haste but dropping Displacement to situational would eke out a bit more time, but you will probably want Blur on at least. You can grab a lootgen SP item and get another 3 or 4 minutes out of that although we're moving away from the "instaroll & go" territory. The starter Goggles are not that useful so that would be an ideal slot to switch. If you have a Cove SP trinket on your account you can use that for your first 2 minutes of buffs and immediately switch to the Dodge & SA starter trinket.

    Magical Studies 3/3 buys about 3 more minutes of both buffs since Echoes does not help directly. Still for 4 AP that is quite accessible, and if you plan on wand healing then dropping down another 6 AP for the +75% to device healing might be worth it. As EllisDee37 points out you won't have enough AP for that to start, but in theory as you run challenges you will pass more ranks and can fill it out.

    Note that I miscalculated the benefit of Bard's Magical Studies enhancement in my first post. It is supposed to grant 30/60/100 SP and the third rank also grants the Magical Training feat, which itself is supposed to add 80 SP and Echoes of Power. However I see that my SDK with Magical Studies 3/3 had 413 SP, which is only 100 higher than base rather than 180 higher. So really rank 3 of Magical Studies grants 40 SP and Echoes of Power, not 40 SP + Magical Training as the text claims. If I were tackling longer Challenges and grabbed Echoes, I'd consider spending the < 1 hour or whatever it would take to power through the Korthos chain for the Archivist's Necklace. Echoes's 12-15ish SP plus a click from that has a good chance of clearing the SP needed for another 2 minutes of a single buff. That would give you a guaranteed extra 2 minutes of Haste, and a high chance of an extra 4 minutes of Haste, or 2 minutes of both Haste & Displacement.

    I think I would have to try both the 10/5 and 10/3/2 builds in a few attempts back to back to see which worked out better. I think it will vary somewhat by Challenge too; e.g. it seems to me that the Island and arguably the Mansion favor ST DPS, but the Caves and Palace cry out for AoE.

  15. #55
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Rolled a PDK 13 bard/2 fighter

    THF line
    cleave/great cleave
    improved crit:slash
    extend
    magical training (though not sure if echos will be particularly useful)

    has sprint boost, DDoor, blur, haste, shadow walk, displacement, FoM, invisibility, disco ball, etc.

    Most enhancement points in warchanter

    maxed concentration, UMD, perform and balance

    Needs a medium armor and a two-handed weapon and enough plat for potions to cover the basics (curse/disease/poison/lesser restore/resist pots if ship resists not available), for spell components and for cure critical wands. Stock gear boosts important stats, give feather falling, 25% striding, deathblock, 100% fort

    Went 17 str, 16 con, 16 cha, had one build point left-over I threw into int...dumped everything else. With the PDK cha-attack/dmg enhancement was tempted to dump strength, too, but then would not qualify for GTHF...so level-ups went to strength as well.

    Very likely a more efficient way to build this especially WRT enhancements. I'm not really familiar with the new warchanter stuff.

    Did not have time to actually run in the challenges, currently running favor for the first free backpack slot.

    (ETA: I would try colossal crystal with this...especially if the disco balls can stick decently or if some feats can be shuffled to make that so.)
    Last edited by MartinusWyllt; 10-22-2013 at 09:47 AM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinusWyllt View Post
    Rolled a PDK 13 bard/2 fighter

    THF line
    cleave/great cleave
    improved crit:slash
    extend
    magical training (though not sure if echos will be particularly useful)

    has sprint boost, DDoor, blur, haste, shadow walk, displacement, FoM, invisibility, disco ball, etc.

    Most enhancement points in warchanter

    maxed concentration, UMD, perform and balance

    Needs a medium armor and a two-handed weapon and enough plat for potions to cover the basics (curse/disease/poison/lesser restore/resist pots if ship resists not available), for spell components and for cure critical wands. Stock gear boosts important stats, give feather falling, 25% striding, deathblock, 100% fort

    Went 17 str, 16 con, 16 cha, had one build point left-over I threw into int...dumped everything else. With the PDK cha-attack/dmg enhancement was tempted to dump strength, too, but then would not qualify for GTHF...so level-ups went to strength as well.

    Very likely a more efficient way to build this especially WRT enhancements. I'm not really familiar with the new warchanter stuff.

    Did not have time to actually run in the challenges, currently running favor for the first free backpack slot.

    (ETA: I would try colossal crystal with this...especially if the disco balls can stick decently or if some feats can be shuffled to make that so.)
    So far to be honest I think either the build you suggested, or my earlier one with 10 bard/ 4 fighter / 1 barbarian is going to be the best till the eldritch knight comes out. After that its likely going to be a bladeforged or pdk eldritch knight.

  17. #57
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinusWyllt View Post
    Rolled a PDK 13 bard/2 fighter
    Consider either cleric / FvS splash for Divine Might, Smite Foe, & Magical Training; or barb splash for +10% run speed & +3 Power Atk.
    magical training (though not sure if echos will be particularly useful)
    You can pick up Echoes from SS Magical Studies; between that and Spellsong Vigor (which I'd prefer over T5 WC, YMMV), you basically never run outta SPs, though you do have to be patient sometimes.

  18. #58
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Consider either cleric / FvS splash for Divine Might, Smite Foe, & Magical Training; or barb splash for +10% run speed & +3 Power Atk.

    You can pick up Echoes from SS Magical Studies; between that and Spellsong Vigor (which I'd prefer over T5 WC, YMMV), you basically never run outta SPs, though you do have to be patient sometimes.
    That's a good idea. As is the BF/PDK EK...though I'll want to see how the sp use works-out.

  19. #59
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    A hard requirement for me in a challenge farmer is extended Haste for kobolds. I did 13 sorc/2 pal Bladeforged earth savant and I'm very happy with it. Earth savant because acid is the least resisted element in challenges, only arcanoloths are immune I think. I doubt a melee runner can match the DPS. Can probably post the build if anyone really cares, but it's pretty obvious.

  20. #60
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    How is sp management in the extraplanar challenges? (I have very little sorc experience)

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