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Thread: Divine Disciple

  1. #21
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    1) The DC-enhancing enhancement is a tier 5 enhancement. Ouch. Please lower it to tier 4 and put a second one in, that lets you choose a second spell school to enhance. Clerics don't have enough offensive spells to stick to one school only, unlike sorcerers or wizards.
    OK, done. DC increase is already available in both Tier 4 and Tier 5, on Lamannia today.

    4) The capstone is odd. It gives you a spellpower *opposite* of the path you chose, plus Word of Balance as a spell. (Yay WoB!). However, if you have been leveling a cleric using nothing but light spells, what is the point of the extra negative spellpower? Kind of odd to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    *I think you've got the capstones mixed up
    Whether you start as Dark or Light, if you keep going until level 20 you transcend your original choice and gain all the Core Enhancements, both Light and Dark. Yes, for some of those abilities that's mostly for theme, but that's why the capstone gives so much stuff -- and it's certainly not all irrelevant.

    It's true that the principle bonuses for most characters are probably not the spells from the other side and the +5 spell power, but even taking all of that out we feel there's still a lot of power and usefulness left in the capstone.

    There is also the option to choose only Universal Spellpower in the tiered enhancements, if you want to try mixing both Light and Dark.

    All that said, the added spells are not likely to be completely useless for the level 20 Clerics, though we don't expect many characters to necessarily try to make full use of all of them. (It's still another possible build option, if a trickier one!)

  2. #22
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    OK, done. DC increase is already available in both Tier 4 and Tier 5, on Lamannia today.




    Whether you start as Dark or Light, if you keep going until level 20 you transcend your original choice and gain all the Core Enhancements, both Light and Dark. Yes, for some of those abilities that's mostly for theme, but that's why the capstone gives so much stuff -- and it's certainly not all irrelevant.

    It's true that the principle bonuses for most characters are probably not the spells from the other side and the +5 spell power, but even taking all of that out we feel there's still a lot of power and usefulness left in the capstone.

    There is also the option to choose only Universal Spellpower in the tiered enhancements, if you want to try mixing both Light and Dark.

    All that said, the added spells are not likely to be completely useless for the level 20 Clerics, though we don't expect many characters to necessarily try to make full use of all of them. (It's still another possible build option, if a trickier one!)
    Tier 5 in divine disciple is a little weak. I like radiant servant much more at tier 5 and I would guess that is most people's conclusions so likely people will be a radiant servant with a lot of stuff taken from divine disciple. Other than that and the comments on darkness being weaker then light this looks pretty solid - thanks devs. It looks like clerics have a viable offensive option .
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  3. #23
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    one more comment. How about for darkness you get a negative energy aura like the radiant servant aura and negative energy heals you like a pale master. That would be sweet. Then you have this cool relationship between clerics and pale masters. You also could make some fun multi class builds. Just throwing something fun out there.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  4. #24
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Dark side looks good, the problem, IMO, is the uselessness of our negative energy spells.

    I would really love to make an "evil" cleric, tossing around Inflicts and Harms and have it be a viable choice. However, the lack of any real 'power' from Inflicts delegates my desire to just a hopeful dream.

    Inflict spells need some love, somehow, to make Dark CLR a viable gameplay choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  5. #25
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    OK, done. DC increase is already available in both Tier 4 and Tier 5, on Lamannia today.
    Gah! XD

    *starts bleeding from the sheer sharpness of dev sarcasm*

    I didn't see that until after I went back to Lamm after posting. Whoops ^^;

  6. #26

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    Interested in seeing this offered to favored souls as well.

    I don't mind if the two classes eventually share 4 or 5 trees that are well built.
    Keep up the good work, and would a player please copy this and put it on wiki.

    Thank you.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    There is also the option to choose only Universal Spellpower in the tiered enhancements, if you want to try mixing both Light and Dark.
    I don't see any viable option other than taking the universal spellpower, because pretty much every cleric needs:

    devotion for heals
    impulse for bb
    radiance for dp

    No matter what you do for darkside, unless there is dp-equivalent dot of darkness, a darkside cleric will still need light.

    I can't stress enough how you need to move ALL spellpower to selected enhancements like you do for clerics. But until you do, having this method only in divine disciple greatly weakens divine disciple. Why didn't they just get 1 universal spellpower per point spent in the tree?

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    I'd like to say the alignment spells(Holy Smite, Chaos Hammer, Unholy Blight, Wrath Order) are really weak even if they are conditional. This feedback is far from the enhancement itself, but at least is related to SLA Holy Smite on the enhancement.

    Conditional spells must take the enough reward corresponding to its condition, so I suggest to increase the Max Caster Level of the spells by 5 or so.

    For example, Current Version is "[Alignment Spell] deals 1d4+4 per 2 caster level to [alignment] creatures and MCL is 5, and 1d3+3 per caster level to [alignment] Outsiders and MCL is 10." - and even you must NOT be opposite alignment from the spells to cast them.
    As you can see, It's really weak even if you have the correct condition to use those spells... to make matters worse, they don't work if no condition(for wrath order, you should not be chaotic and target enemies should be lawful, and more damage on lawful outsider.)

    I suggest to change that into this: "[Alignment Spell] deals 1d2+2 per caster level(NOT two caster level) to [alignment] creatures and MCL is 10, 1d3+3 per caster level to [alignment] outsiders and MCL is 15(or 20)." - also you're now able to caster this spell regardless of your alignment.

    for the enemies opposite to alignment, They'll take much damage than before, but This'll be more and more effective if they're kind of outsider, so you'll gain the conditional powerfulness as if you possesses Fireball.

  9. #29
    Community Member Leclaire1's Avatar
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    Previously in the first pass I was most concerned with the fate of the cleric class. I no longer am because the Divine Disciple tree is awesome. Thanks! I had a lot of fun nuking things in the demonweb with the new light spells and SLAs- I just hope they dont get nerfed too much. The dark side prob does need improvement, but I'm a goody two-shoes cleric so I woudnt know. Thanks for responding to player feedback and giving us this. Now please also respond to player feedback and fix the deficient Archmage tree

    One point of observation, however. As cool as the tier 5 abilities may be, no one will ever take them from this tree or the protetor tree because at the moment it means giving up the healing aura, which no cleric will ever do. So you've spent a lot of time thinking of cool things for this tier, and if you want them to see the light of day, I'd highly recommend making the aura a ML 12 Core enhancement of the Radiant Servant tree. I'll be happy either way, but you'll give players more options if you do this.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leclaire1 View Post
    One point of observation, however. As cool as the tier 5 abilities may be, no one will ever take them from this tree or the protetor tree because at the moment it means giving up the healing aura, which no cleric will ever do.
    Speak for yourself.

    For +1 DC? Screw healing aura.

    If I can get by without it while knocking out lousy almost-no-spell-slots Cleric-knock-off lives for a bit more spell pen, I can sure do it once I'm back to the real thing.

    Oh, and HJELL NO to letting FvS get Divine Disciple. FvS have had all the nice toys to play with for a long time, while Cleric had to take the back seat with nothing but hjealbot stuff. It's about time Cleric had SOMETHING at least half-way decent of their own.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Tentative upcoming fixes / changes based on our internal testing & feedback:

    - Add Quicken to the possible Improved metamagics on tier 3 (whups).
    - Divine Disciple Spell Critical enhancements function properly instead of not at all (whups).
    - Unholy Blight replaced with Necrotic Burst.
    - Sun Bolt's maximum caster level reduced. Still subject to possible changes or balancing, but the cap of level 30 that is in the current Lamannia build is ... not quite right for a level 3 spell that has excellent scaling.

    We recognize that Dark may be getting the worse deal right now, but still welcome feedback and ideas in that regard.
    Nicely done, tips hat to the Devs.

    Please, please, please, please, pleases....keep Sun bolt as is or real close.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Targal View Post
    I'd like to say the alignment spells(Holy Smite, Chaos Hammer, Unholy Blight, Wrath Order) are really weak even if they are conditional. This feedback is far from the enhancement itself, but at least is related to SLA Holy Smite on the enhancement.

    Conditional spells must take the enough reward corresponding to its condition, so I suggest to increase the Max Caster Level of the spells by 5 or so.

    For example, Current Version is "[Alignment Spell] deals 1d4+4 per 2 caster level to [alignment] creatures and MCL is 5, and 1d3+3 per caster level to [alignment] Outsiders and MCL is 10." - and even you must NOT be opposite alignment from the spells to cast them.
    As you can see, It's really weak even if you have the correct condition to use those spells... to make matters worse, they don't work if no condition(for wrath order, you should not be chaotic and target enemies should be lawful, and more damage on lawful outsider.)

    I suggest to change that into this: "[Alignment Spell] deals 1d2+2 per caster level(NOT two caster level) to [alignment] creatures and MCL is 10, 1d3+3 per caster level to [alignment] outsiders and MCL is 15(or 20)." - also you're now able to caster this spell regardless of your alignment.

    for the enemies opposite to alignment, They'll take much damage than before, but This'll be more and more effective if they're kind of outsider, so you'll gain the conditional powerfulness as if you possesses Fireball.
    Alignment spell are terribly weak, they need to be increased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leclaire1 View Post
    Previously in the first pass I was most concerned with the fate of the cleric class. I no longer am because the Divine Disciple tree is awesome. Thanks! I had a lot of fun nuking things in the demonweb with the new light spells and SLAs- I just hope they dont get nerfed too much. The dark side prob does need improvement, but I'm a goody two-shoes cleric so I woudnt know. Thanks for responding to player feedback and giving us this. Now please also respond to player feedback and fix the deficient Archmage tree .
    Woot

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Speak for yourself.

    For +1 DC? Screw healing aura.

    If I can get by without it while knocking out lousy almost-no-spell-slots Cleric-knock-off lives for a bit more spell pen, I can sure do it once I'm back to the real thing.

    Oh, and HJELL NO to letting FvS get Divine Disciple. FvS have had all the nice toys to play with for a long time, while Cleric had to take the back seat with nothing but hjealbot stuff. It's about time Cleric had SOMETHING at least half-way decent of their own.
    I can live with that.


    How about taking the Protection Domain and stuffing it with DPS melee perks?



    Protector: You gain +2 AC for each Protection Core Ability you possess (including this one). +1 Universal Spell Power for each action point spent in this tree. You gain +1 damage for every tier of the protection tree you posses.


    Just start tossing stuff like that randomly in it, and you will find fans real quick.

  14. #34
    Community Member Leclaire1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Speak for yourself.

    For +1 DC? Screw healing aura.
    I stand corrected. Evidently at least one cleric would give up healing aura for a small amount of extra nuking power. Nonetheless, for most of us I'm still confident that we wouldn't make that choice, even for those like myself who love nuking stuff. Much of the feedback I've seen on the general forum also tends this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    If I can get by without it while knocking out lousy almost-no-spell-slots Cleric-knock-off lives for a bit more spell pen, I can sure do it once I'm back to the real thing.

    Oh, and HJELL NO to letting FvS get Divine Disciple. FvS have had all the nice toys to play with for a long time, while Cleric had to take the back seat with nothing but hjealbot stuff. It's about time Cleric had SOMETHING at least half-way decent of their own.
    I agree, and this only reinforces the main point. The Healing aura is one of the few goodies clerics have, and we shouldnt have to give it up just to get an extra 1 DC that an FVS can more easily get. This tree gives us a lot more goodies for things other than healing, but we shouldnt have to give up being the best healers in the game to get it. Its the least bit of payback we can get for all those raids we've faithfully healed.

  15. #35
    Community Member Leclaire1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post


    How about taking the Protection Domain and stuffing it with DPS melee perks?



    Protector: You gain +2 AC for each Protection Core Ability you possess (including this one). +1 Universal Spell Power for each action point spent in this tree. You gain +1 damage for every tier of the protection tree you posses.


    Just start tossing stuff like that randomly in it, and you will find fans real quick.
    Absolutely! While battle clerics have mostly been made through splashing other classes and via feats, they at least had Divine Might before. Did I miss something or is this missing from all the trees? They should put that back in. The Protector tree doesnt have to be garbage, tht AC stuff is nice and with just a little bit of offensive goodness could make it quite a viable battle cleric option. After all, the best way to protect people is to eliminate threats ASAP, and merely "shielding others" and such doesnt really accomplish this.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leclaire1 View Post
    Previously in the first pass I was most concerned with the fate of the cleric class. I no longer am because the Divine Disciple tree is awesome. Thanks! I had a lot of fun nuking things in the demonweb with the new light spells and SLAs- I just hope they dont get nerfed too much. The dark side prob does need improvement, but I'm a goody two-shoes cleric so I woudnt know. Thanks for responding to player feedback and giving us this. Now please also respond to player feedback and fix the deficient Archmage tree

    One point of observation, however. As cool as the tier 5 abilities may be, no one will ever take them from this tree or the protetor tree because at the moment it means giving up the healing aura, which no cleric will ever do. So you've spent a lot of time thinking of cool things for this tier, and if you want them to see the light of day, I'd highly recommend making the aura a ML 12 Core enhancement of the Radiant Servant tree. I'll be happy either way, but you'll give players more options if you do this.
    Speak for yourself..My Cleric on Live doesn't carry RS, never has, and won't. She has never needed it, she is an end game cleric as well.

    Nice job with the tree...I feel the urge to re up my VIP membership, thanx for listening
    Hexxa CLR 25 *TR* * ~Hexanna ~*TR* FVS 25 * Hexecuter CLR 20 *Flexanna RGR/R/M 18/1/1 *TR* * Flexa FTR/R 18/2 TR * Hextravaganz Bard *TR* 18/2 * Hexotic Sorc 13 * Hexquisite Wiz 23 * ~~Quantum Entropy * SARLONA~~ - * and various other scoundrels

  17. #37
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moops View Post
    Speak for yourself..My Cleric on Live doesn't carry RS, never has, and won't. She has never needed it, she is an end game cleric as well.

    Nice job with the tree...I feel the urge to re up my VIP membership, thanx for listening
    I like the aura a ton, but more from a personal defensive standpoint. I am human and have max healing amp (just missing 10%) and my aura ticks for 70 which is pretty potent constant self healing which really improves surviveability. I also like the little heal tick and the improved max cures from a spell point efficiency stand point. All three of those are better then +1 to someones dcs in one school really. I think they should add something else decent to tier 5 divine disciple nothing crazy but something useful would be great and make it a harder choice.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by moops View Post
    My Cleric on Live doesn't carry RS, never has, and won't.
    Interesting. Any particular reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by moops View Post
    She has never needed it
    It's not about needing it. Like I said up-thread, I'll trade it in for a DC boost in a heartbeat.

    But currently on live, it's well worth the investment, I feel. I don't feel the current prerequisites prevent you from getting whatever other stuff you need. Not taking it seems kind of like a melee not taking Power Attack. Sure, they don't NEED it, but it a boost that's worth the cost.

  19. #39
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    I've removed my post.

    Part of it was due to my (understandable but incorrect) assumptions from looking at the beta enhancements UI and drawing incorrect conclusions about what was available.

    The remainder of my comments belong in two other, better places.
    Last edited by My2Cents; 07-09-2013 at 09:03 AM.

  20. #40
    Community Member moops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I like the aura a ton, but more from a personal defensive standpoint. I am human and have max healing amp (just missing 10%) and my aura ticks for 70 which is pretty potent constant self healing which really improves surviveability. I also like the little heal tick and the improved max cures from a spell point efficiency stand point. All three of those are better then +1 to someones dcs in one school really. I think they should add something else decent to tier 5 divine disciple nothing crazy but something useful would be great and make it a harder choice.
    yeah, currently I carry all spell pen enhancements and am full smiting spec'd on LIVE, there is not way to do that and carry RS on LIVE ...Perhaps, in the future, but the way I look at the tree it is losing more than just +1 DC to go RS for me... I am lucky enough to play with a solid group that works around my gimpness

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Interesting. Any particular reason?



    It's not about needing it. Like I said up-thread, I'll trade it in for a DC boost in a heartbeat.

    But currently on live, it's well worth the investment, I feel. I don't feel the current prerequisites prevent you from getting whatever other stuff you need. Not taking it seems kind of like a melee not taking Power Attack. Sure, they don't NEED it, but it a boost that's worth the cost.
    See above...Spell Pen Full MSite Spec;d

    from my perspective, I've played a cleric for 7 years, and have always used scrolls to heal as much as I can so I can use my DPS or CC spells, so it is easy for me to not have RS--surprisingly I can solo heal EH CiTW and FOT without the cheese, and not use pots--where as RS Clerics seem to blow thru pots--Also, playing an FVS as a healer who doesn't have aura, helps me not become dependent on healing with something that is not always there.

    Also I watch these same clerics get p'owned in EE content over and over trying to stand close to the melee to give them RS aura...If they are spec'd like madmatt with full healing amp, then they could prob do it, but not the clerics that I see...For the content that I play and they way my groups generally play ( not pugs), RS isn't really going to keep them up, it is skill and kiting and getting out of the line of fire.

    But Im sure once this goes LIVE I will adjust and change and weigh the benefits against the Cons for my playstyle.

    I am not a conventional player by far, i am prob one of the only Cleircs you know that uses the Shiradi Destiny, but that is what is so beautiful about this game, the ability to make our characters what is fun for us This allows me to lead raids and always play healers cuz I can make them fun...vs another game I am playing atm where a cleric just heals, and it is god awful.
    Last edited by moops; 07-03-2013 at 06:16 PM.
    Hexxa CLR 25 *TR* * ~Hexanna ~*TR* FVS 25 * Hexecuter CLR 20 *Flexanna RGR/R/M 18/1/1 *TR* * Flexa FTR/R 18/2 TR * Hextravaganz Bard *TR* 18/2 * Hexotic Sorc 13 * Hexquisite Wiz 23 * ~~Quantum Entropy * SARLONA~~ - * and various other scoundrels

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